I would like to verify that I'm understanding something correctly.
A Trick Attack is a full action (always, regardless if you move) where you roll a skill check and, if you succeed, you deal extra damage.
A Coup de Grace is a full action that is an automatic hit and crit.
Since they are both full actions, you cannot deal trick attack damage on a helpless opponent in a coup de grace, despite the fact that the trick attack mentions that you get your opponent to drop their guard, and a helpless opponent by definition has no guard.
Is that correct?
Thanks!
Correct that you can't do both. The drop their guard bit is flavor though. The trick attack just makes them flatfooted vs that attack, It doesn't make them helpless. It has no other attached penalty until you start adding things to it at 4tgh level.
Here's the weird thing, tho.
Let's say you have an unconscious opponent next to you. You can do a full action coup de grace or you can do a full action trick attack.
You STILL have to roll a skill check against the DC to get them to "drop their guard" to do trick attack damage against them.
It seems to me that the trick attack skill check should make a target flat footed for the attack, and the extra damage should be done against any flat-footed opponent. So you can trick attack a flat-footed opponent in the first round and still be able to draw your weapon. And you can trick attack an unconscious opponent.
But, we haven't played our first game yet, so maybe it works better than I expect.
I won't argue "should" but per raw the only way trick attack grants extra damage is if you succeed at the skill check. I could see a GM agreeing that a bluff check auto succeeds on an unconscious target. But you would still have to choose between the extra damage or a coup de grace.
I won't argue "should" but per raw the only way trick attack grants extra damage is if you succeed at the skill check. I could see a GM agreeing that a bluff check auto succeeds on an unconscious target. But you would still have to choose between the extra damage or a coup de grace.
yes yes i could see it now
gm: make your bluff checkplayer: but he is nocked out ?
I DONT CARE BLUFF THE person LOL
I won't argue "should" but per raw the only way trick attack grants extra damage is if you succeed at the skill check. I could see a GM agreeing that a bluff check auto succeeds on an unconscious target. But you would still have to choose between the extra damage or a coup de grace.yes yes i could see it now
gm: make your bluff check
player: but he is nocked out ?I DONT CARE BLUFF THE person LOL
I use Stealth! <rolls> dang, I only rolled a 19! So the unconscious guy...saw me....?
I use Stealth! <rolls> dang, I only rolled a 19! So the unconscious guy...saw me....?I won't argue "should" but per raw the only way trick attack grants extra damage is if you succeed at the skill check. I could see a GM agreeing that a bluff check auto succeeds on an unconscious target. But you would still have to choose between the extra damage or a coup de grace.yes yes i could see it now
gm: make your bluff check
player: but he is nocked out ?I DONT CARE BLUFF THE person LOL
YES ...yes he did he saw all of you while being unconscious
the point being that as silly notion as it is i mean one could say yes it will always work and at my table i ill be allowing a HELPLESS only person get that options i mean it really does not make much senses to force a player to do that if there already flat footed to start with. But as for the full action its still a full action regardless of the situation i feel