Hi so I am getting ready to build a PC for a campaign with my group and my GM has told me that the campaign requires both a face and an engineer to be a part of the party. I'd like to fill the engineer role, but I'm kinda put off by the mechanics of both the operative and mechanic classes. He particularly mentioned the engineer role in space combat.
So here's my question, how bad am I going to do if I build a engineering focused soldier in comparison to the other classes?
Here's my notional 1st level build:
Andriod, spacefarer or outlaw theme
Soldier, Eldritch combat style
Str: 11
Dex: 18
Con: 10
Int: 16
Wis: 10
Cha: 8
Skills:
Piloting:1
Engineering: 1
Computers: 1
Perception: 1
Athletics: 1
Medicine: 1
Physical science or Slight of hand: 1 (Based on theme)
Feat: (1) skill synergy computers and perception
I plan on spending a significant part of my non combat feats (3,5,7, etc) and WBL to support this role, ie, buying hacking tools and computers, taking skill focus in computers etc.
Can I be competitive at all, or is this a pipe dream? What are everyone's thoughts?
It'll work just fine.
That's actually what the soldier is supposed to do with all the non-combat feats - spend them on non-combat stuff.
You'll be fine in the lower levels and should be decent into the middle levels. For Engineering specifically, you'll probably be fine even if you make it up to higher levels, though disabling anything that uses the 15+CR*1.5 formula will start getting iffier as you move into double digits. Engineering in particular doesn't have a lot of those, though, so you should be good.
Just try not to get stuck in a sword fight.
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You'll eventually fall behind a dedicated Mechanic. It's workable, but it will fall behind at the stuff mechanic specializes in.
That said, you could go Exocortex Mechanic, get a free Feat, and be almost equally good in combat down to using the same weapons, armor, and stats. You'd lose 1 HP and 1 Stm, plus the Eldritch Combat Style, but the gain of the Feat, scaling bonuses on the relevant skills that are better than what Feats can give you in the long term, and all the Mechanic stuff as levels rise seems worth it to me.
Here's some information on your chance of success based on if you start with a 14 and use a +2 int item at level 14 or if you start with a 10.
here
Here's some information on your chance of success based on if you start with a 14 and use a +2 int item at level 14 or if you start with a 10.
here
With int 16 you'll be 5% better than the graph, and if you use the +2 int item at level 7 you'll be 10% from 7 to 10 then back to 5%. You won't go below 50% for level appropriate challenges until level 20
A Soldier will fall behind an equal level Mechanic with equivalent intelligence, yes, but not until level 13 - until then, skill focus gives at least an equivalent bonus, and up until level 9 is actually better than what Bypass gives the Mechanic. It would take two feats to get it for both Engineering and Computers, yes, but the Soldier of all classes has those to spare.
It's not until the higher levels that they really start falling behind.
Wow guys, thanks this is a lot of really good info. I had considered the exocortex mechanic but I was really turned off by the limitations of the targeting mechanics. My understanding is that by RAW if I loose sight of the guy I'm targeting I no longer are targeting him, and if I want to Target him again after he pops back around that wall I have to spend my move to do so. Not ideal to say the least.
Hmmm, I guess you're right. I reviewed the text. It does leave you somewhat disadvantaged while your target has total concealment though. This would make the see invisible creatures even more important a trick to pick up.
"As long as that target is in sight, the exocortex feeds you
telemetry, vulnerabilities, and combat tactics, allowing you to
make attacks against that target as if your base attack bonus
from your mechanic levels were equal to your mechanic level."
Skill synergy does one of two things either it gives you a +2 insight to class skills you have, ie skill focus light, or it makes two non class skills into class skills. So I was taking synergy on non class skills with an eye toward skill focus at lvl 3.
Al least, if I read it right...
As it is I think I'll go with a themeless background to get computers as a class skill and take a skill focus at level 1.
I was checking out some of the threads discussing the rate at which skill checks scale... It sounds like nobody is going to be effective as is at higher levels :/
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uimo?DC-70
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As it is I think I'll go with a themeless background to get computers as a class skill and take a skill focus at level 1.
I was checking out some of the threads discussing the rate at which skill checks scale... It sounds like nobody is going to be effective as is at higher levels :/
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uimo?DC-70
Almost all things that scale that way are starship related, and quite frankly you eventually get huge Computer-based bonuses on some of those when you need to (+10 is available). The x3 ones are still too high, but are advanced moves that are useful but unnecessary.
Outside Starship Combat, the highest DC you're ever gonna run into is about 49 (or a skill bonus of +39), and that's both decently rare and doable, if not ideal, for classes/characters that focus on it. Technically it can get higher than that, but basically only for Diplomacy with unfriendlies or hacking Tier 9-10 computers (which cap out at an absurd 57 for a super-hardened Tier 10).
With Int 16 starting, by 20th level you'll have an Int of, say, 24, so we're talking a +33 with Skill Focus on a Soldier or +36 for a Mechanic. That's not quite enough for the very hardest checks in the game without some help...but then, those don't seem likely to come up a whole lot.