My players took the Stag Lords fort with little effort (only two were injured) because of a combination of infiltration and mostly due to the fact that we are playing using Iron Heroes rules. I didn't know the EL of characters but from what I saw, they are higher than their 3rd level suggests ans they cut through bandits like butter and only thought the owl bear to be a challenge (Auchs and Akiros are prisoners, Dovan is dead).
Now I'm left to think of a way to push the story forward both in the sense of what would the Stag Lord do once he returned to fins his fort taken and game wise, how to make it a challenge . Should I give the nooks some levels? How would they plan to retake the fort? Diplomacy, siège, infiltration? How long would a fort like that last a siege?
Thanks!
The Stag Lord knows all about the secret tunnel into the fort :)
From the sounds of your characters, I would probably give the Stag Lord a extra couple of levels and I would probably start out with L3 bandits - then tweak them on the fly :) Oh and a couple of rogues in there for some sneaky backstabbing.
For me, I have done my job as a DM well, if the party think they are going to lose and 'just' win at the last moment - with one (or more) of them unconscious and close to death :)
Hm. My first thought here is that your players have finished Stolen Lands and it's time to move on to Rivers Run Red. I think the Stag Lord can make a nice recurring adversary for Rivers Run Red. Especially if Dovan is still with him, the two of them could bevil the players as they attempt to establish their fledgling kingdom.
Or maybe the Stag Lord recruits new bandits and they form a kingdom of their own!! The Drowned Tree bandits might make a nice new force for Staggy.
Its true that Staggy knows all about the tunnel; however, without a decent sized force, it would likely still be a suicide run for him to try to take it. Sure, he might take out a PC or two, but odds are, he isn't likely to survive . . . at this time.
For me, I like Pennywit's idea of making Staggy a recurring villain, let him hamper the PCs efforts from the shadows. Maybe he recruits more bandits and/or starts to fan the flames of unrest among the populace (all the more so if the PCs choose to turn his fort into their capital). From there he can even make his way to Drelev and join up with them, all as part of his grand plan of revenge.
Oh there are more bandits knocking around - it even says so in the module.
If Staggy comes back, I would have him fetch some of those extra bandits with him - And I would have them all at L2 or 3 to provide more of a challenge :)
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Thanks for the advice guys!
The idea that the Stag Lord survives and plans his revenge is good. But unfortunately, I don't think I'm doing it because, first Dovan is dead. Stag Lord is the only one left alive and free from the fort. And as I said, the taking of the fort was not bad, but felt a bit underwhelming (or so I felt) for the PCs. Only two were injured, the berseker didn't even suffer a scratch.
So I need a final battle for Stolen Lands. I was thinking about this, let me see what you think: PCs have captured Akiros, who was left at exactly 1 HP. He's badly wounded and decides he's surrending to the PCs, thinking they are just tougher bandits who want to take control of the area, so he offers his services. My players are going to ask for information first, so they will learn that the Stag Lord left with his guard de corps for a raid on Rostland, together with an ambassador of a River Kingdom whom he was hoping to impress by performing such a bold operation (raiding the kingdom of Brevoy! Crossing the border! Getting tons of booty!). His long term goal was to found a barony in the area (and thus his intent to get support from that River Kingdom (I'm still undecided which one to use, but as I'm using a customized version of the setting it could be any save for Pitax which I understand plays a role in later modules): they would provide him arms and military support in case Brevoy got annoyed at such an enemy near their frontiers; he would return the favour by being a base of operations near a wealthy and unprotected border such as Rostland).
Anyway, this will all back up the fact that when he comes back, he does with tougher bandits (he left with his tougher men and left his liutenants at the fort because he didn't trust neither of them alone and knew they didn't like each other so they would snitch if any of them tried anything funny). Once he comes back he feels forced to re-take the fort to save face in front of the River Kingdom ambassador, as he doesn't want to look weak before him. He will try to infiltrate the fort with his men through the tunnel, or perhaps try a night assault.
Now, I want someone from the whole gang to be left alive in order to do the whole "creating unrest" once the PC's kingdom gets going, as you guys suggested. I thought about using the ambassador, which I like because it ties the PC's with the feeling that there are "powers" outside the area watching them (I changed the backstory on Brevoy and Rostland a bit so they are aware of them too, but I wanted some western enemies also keeping an eye on them). Another option would be to make it clear that the Stag Lord has returned with the ambassador and his men, plus another (new) liutenant (Auchs was taken prisoner before, btw). This new liutenant could then try to escape to the ambassador's River Kingdom once the PC's are clearly getting their way, and plot his revenge from there, getting a bit of their support. With time, however, and as the PC's foil his attempts, he might eventually be considered "expendable" by the lord of the River Kingdom. I kind of like the idea that some time in the future this character might become a tragic figure: someone who thinks that the support of the river kingdom is enough to recover the land from the PC's but eventually understands he is unable to, his allies turn on him and he ends up dying a sad death.
I was thinking that in order to make this all more believeable, this liutenant could be the Stag Lord's son or some other younger relative (thus his obsession with re-taking the area... he was going to inherit it!). How do you guys think that the Stag Lord could have had a son? How would he be?
On the tunnel: I'm modifying the module a bit, injecting my whole "weird fantasy" take on the campaign. Instead of the underground layer, I want to expand it a bit and turn it into an ancient temple dedicated to older pagan gods (in my setting there is only one "civilized" god, and other gods are seen with suspicion when not with hostility, as they are associated with Chaos and evil). So once the PC's go underground they find this ancient temple where the Stag Lord's dad lives. That explains him being a druid (he found the temple a long tie ago and devoted himself to their gods, eventually becoming crazy and being part locked there by the Stag Lord, part deciding to live there with his "creatures".
The temple is also home to a weapon that the Stag Lord prices, as it is a magical weapon (in my version of the module, magical weapons are VERY rare, and all have a history). This weapon was actually carried by a Derusan general (Derus being the equivalent to the Roman Empire in my world) who held those lands with his men and found the temple to the pagan gods. After pillaging it, killing the priests and basically thrasing the whole place because it was devoted to dark gods, he fell victim to a curse by those same gods and his twisted soul inhabits the weapon. So yes, it's an intelligent weapon which I intend to play as an anti-hero: he was brutal and efficient, but at the same time he confronted evil cultists. He now is going to inhabit the weapon of a PC, asking him for weird stuff (sacrificing enemies etc.) but will do so because he is cursed to do so.
What do you guys think?
It's a bit hard to give you advice seeing as you've changed so much and have plenty of world specific content. I applaud your creativity, but I am wondering how a low magic world will interact with the coming books.
If I was the Stag Lord, I would bide my time. The group will surely leave the fort at some point and he would plan to take everything they have and hold dear. A certain someone would sense this strife, anger, and desire for revenge and send her minions to help him. Striking everywhere the PCs aren't. Perhaps she then shows him how to use her realm to navigate the Material. It may be necessary to pursue him to a pocket of the First World to finally silence him... unfortunately this realm has granted him powers beyond the scope of mortals....Recurring villain indeed.
Erec wrote: So I need a final battle for Stolen Lands. If the players are in the Stag Lord's (former) fort ... who is protecting Oleg's Rest? Who is protecting Bokken? Who is protecting the Temple of the Elk? Lots of fun things you can do. Hit your players' favorite NPCs. They will hate (and love) you for it.
Quote: I was thinking about this, let me see what you think: PCs have captured Akiros, who was left at exactly 1 HP. He's badly wounded and decides he's surrending to the PCs, thinking they are just tougher bandits who want to take control of the area, so he offers his services. My players are going to ask for information first, so they will learn that the Stag Lord left with his guard de corps for a raid on Rostland, together with an ambassador of a River Kingdom whom he was hoping to impress by performing such a bold operation (raiding the kingdom of Brevoy! Crossing the border! Getting tons of booty!). His long term goal was to found a barony in the area (and thus his intent to get support from that River Kingdom (I'm still undecided which one to use, but as I'm using a customized version of the setting it could be any save for Pitax which I understand plays a role in later modules): they would provide him arms and military support in case Brevoy got annoyed at such an enemy near their frontiers; he would return the favour by being a base of operations near a wealthy and unprotected border such as Rostland). This is not a bad plan. As far as a River Kingdom to back him, I think Mivon (with its attitude toward Brevoy) is a solid choice. You might also consider putting masked Razmiran cultists behind the resurgent Stag Lord. This gives you the option of turning the Cult of Razmir into a medium-term adversary for the kingdom. Also, consider letting the ambassador be Grigori, maybe reskinned as a vigilante.
Quote: I was thinking that in order to make this all more believeable, this liutenant could be the Stag Lord's son or some other younger relative (thus his obsession with re-taking the area... he was going to inherit it!). How do you guys think that the Stag Lord could have had a son? How would he be? Well ... they taught us about where sons and daughters come from when I was in middle school ...
OK, seriously, this might be your opportunity to start foreshadowing Nyrissa or (if you're going to use it) the Courts of the Shadow Fey or Realm of the Fellnight Queen. You might also incorporate the fey trader (wosshername) who brokers deals.
When your players next see Staggy, he should be visibly aged. I would give him a few more levels and (I'm thinking) the Broken Soul template. His son, I think, should be a sorcerer with the fey bloodline, maybe around level 3 or 4. The backstory is that Staggy sought aid from a faerie monarch (Nyrissa or one of the monarchs of the Shadow Court are good candidates). He spent fifteen years in the fey realm as the faerie's occasional bed partner, while only a few months passed in the real world. The experience has completely broken his sanity (what little was there in the first place), but he gained a son ... of himself and Nyrissa! (or the other fey lady). He came back from the fey realm and now seeks REVENGE!! He's also kind of bonkers.
Wow, amazing idea Pennywit, thank you so much. I'm definitely going to use the whole "trapped in the fey world" thing.
So, if I get it right, you mean that when he comes back to the fort he's spent time in the fey realm. My only doubt would be: would he had gone there *before* leaving with his raid party and the River Kingdom ambassador? Or you mean after he comes and finds the fort taken he decides to back up, goes to ask for aid from the fey and then enters the fey realm? (it might look a bit weird for the ambassador and his men to see him disappear and then come back older and with some weird dude that looks like him... but I guess he is seen as a weird person anyways so...).
BornOfHate: regarding the difficulty of future magical events in the low magic setting, I should clarify that it's low fantasy in the civilized lands (ie. Brevoy basically). The Stolen Lands are untamed, beyond the frontier lands and thus I approach them in a much more "weird fantasy" way where strange and paranormal things happen. Think of it kind of like when Sword and Sorcery heroes like Conan step outside the big cities or civilized towns. They meet evil sorcerers, abominations etc. But they wouldn't expect their kings to have a wizards to cast divination spells for them.
Mivon is just south of the Stolen Lands, plus it was founded by Aldori swordlords with a rivalry with Rostland, so it would be an obvious choice for the Ambassador to come from (and he could be an Aldori swordlord himself, giving you a chance for some fun tactical choices & combats). All this assumes your world still has Mivon in much the same place.
I like the idea of him spending time in the fey realm -- maybe he has a couple of minor fey hanging around with him. Or maybe just an owlbear or two as "pets" given him by Nyrissa.
You could, perhaps, have him based with the Dancing Lady from book 2 (though that might turn into a very lethal encounter!)
The evil sword could be a temptation thing: "do this and it will reduce unrest/terrify your enemies/make your followers afraid to cross you" -- but always phrase it in terms of practical ends. (Look up Roman pacification techniques -- the sword probably sees nothing wrong with crucifying bandits every 10 paces along the roads...) Also, perhaps the sword can "take over" a minor NPC and become the Royal Assassin if one of the players doesn't want to handle it. (If they try to dispose of it, then it next shows up in the hand of their adversary -- make it a minor artifact so they'd have to do a special quest to dispose of it, or it keeps coming back.)
Erec wrote: So, if I get it right, you mean that when he comes back to the fort he's spent time in the fey realm. My only doubt would be: would he had gone there *before* leaving with his raid party and the River Kingdom ambassador? Or you mean after he comes and finds the fort taken he decides to back up, goes to ask for aid from the fey and then enters the fey realm? Hmm ... here's an idea.
1) Staggy realizes he's dispossed, cries out in the woods in despair and anguish.
2) Agents of Nyrissa hear him and conduct him to the Fable by mysterious means.
3) He spends twenty years in the Fable as a chew toy for Nyrissa and the Knurly Witch.
4) He emerges from the Fable twenty years older (but just a few weeks later in Prime Material Plane time) as a scarred creature both more or less than a man after the tortures the fey have inflicted on him. For his decreased ability score, I suggest Intelligence or Wisdom, signifying the breaking of the Stag Lord's mind.
5) With Staggy is a young man who resembles him in his prime -- this young man should be a sorcerer or bloodrager with the Fey bloodline. This young man is effectively the "brains" of the operation now. He acts to reclaim the Greenbelt for "his father," but in reality he's trying to claim it for himself. The son is both face and brains, and he'd likely have the relationship with a River Kingdoms ambassador.
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