Could anyone recommend ways to further enhance my damage on my 4 natural attacks in my druid wild shape form. I see frigid touch and frostbite as options but they have a duration of instantaneous so essentially it can only be used for a single round. Are there any druid spells that add damage on for multiple rounds?
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Vine strike from the Melee Tactics box gives you +1d6 to all natural attacks and the possibility of entangling your foes. It lasts 1 minute/level.
power attack
arcane strike and the like (elemental stirke etc)
Amulet of Mighty Fists (taking frost,fire,acid and electric would add 4d6 to each strike).
taking 2 levels as monk and grabbing feral combat and the jabbing style tree. with jabbing master 2nd hit in a round deal +2d6 damage and each attac kafter that get +4d6 damage (and if you gret a form with MORE attacks like an octipus...)
power attack
arcane strike and the like (elemental stirke etc)
Amulet of Mighty Fists (taking frost,fire,acid and electric would add 4d6 to each strike).
taking 2 levels as monk and grabbing feral combat and the jabbing style tree. with jabbing master 2nd hit in a round deal +2d6 damage and each attac kafter that get +4d6 damage (and if you gret a form with MORE attacks like an octipus...)
Our wizard just crafted me an amulet of mighty fists its +1 it doesn't have any other abilities, but should it have? It cost 2000 gold to craft.
you can have any weapon proeprty (that can be used with unarmed strike,non ranged) instead of a "+" you just count them all when summing the cost.
a +1 amulet cost to craft is 2000 (4000 to buy) and can be one of the following:
+1 enhancment (+1 magic to attack and damage with all attacks)
frost (+1d6) cold damage)
flamig (+1d6 fire damage)
etc
note that flaming or frost in this case REPLACE the +1 to attack and damage not add to it(otherwise its a +2\+3 amulet then)
like normal weapons adding more powers make the total cost more. a +1 flaming frost amulet is bascilky a +3 amulet (buying cost of 36,000 gp and crafting of 18,000).
if your pertty sure you have enough bonus to hit your target it's usaly better for damage to add elemental damage since its a 1d6 instead of a net 1. then again that +1 also mean the attack is magic so it overcome magic dr.
Precision Damage.
Is that like the feat precision strike?
Frostbite says "You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level." So you instantaneously cast the spell, and then can make touch attacks up to your level. So at lv8 it lasts for 2 full attacks, and at lv9 you'd be able to quicken the spell if you wanted.
But it's kinda hard to suggest how to increase it FURTHER when you don't share what you've already done to increase your damage.
Precision Damage.Is that like the feat precision strike?Precision Damage in general, like Sneak Attack Damage. If you have a character that can reliably lock in Sneak Attack Damage, all his attacks do some extra d6s of damage.
So lets say you have a Tengu with Claws who takes Quick and Greater dirty trick and then some levels in Rogue or Ninja. Then takes a level in White Haired Witch and acquires a Helm of the Mammoth Lord. Once you Blind your opponent with Dirty Tricks, all the rest of your attacks all do Sneak Attack Damage. If you also wear Armor Spikes and take Hamatula Strike, then many of your Natural Attacks will get Free Grapples with every hit, and you will do Armor Spike + Sneak Attack Damage, too!
So how is that applicable to his 4 natural attack whildshaped druid?
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Planar Wild Shape smite + forstbite is damage dice + strength + 1d6 cold/non-leathal + lvl + lvl cold/non-leathal.
This is highly competative damage at any level. In addition to two potentially 2 status effects (fatigue and entangle) and whatever your animal companion does. This is a lot for one round.
May, I ask what sort of power levels you are trying to achieve? Or, are you just looking for all the options so you can decide on ones you like?
Frostbite says "You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level." So you instantaneously cast the spell, and then can make touch attacks up to your level. So at lv8 it lasts for 2 full attacks, and at lv9 you'd be able to quicken the spell if you wanted.
I'm almost certain there's a recent-ish FAQ that you can't make iterative attacks with touch attacks granted by a spell, but I can't find it.
Making a touch attack against an enemy by touching it, beyond the free action to do so as part of casting the spell, is a standard action. It can’t be used with a full attack.
If you meant natural attacks rather than touch attacks, then yeah.
Frostbite says "You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level." So you instantaneously cast the spell, and then can make touch attacks up to your level. So at lv8 it lasts for 2 full attacks, and at lv9 you'd be able to quicken the spell if you wanted.
I'm almost certain there's a recent-ish FAQ that you can't make iterative attacks with touch attacks granted by a spell, but I can't find it.
Making a touch attack against an enemy by touching it, beyond the free action to do so as part of casting the spell, is a standard action. It can’t be used with a full attack.If you meant natural attacks rather than touch attacks, then yeah.
Right, the point was increasing the damage of the natural attacks. Having touch spell effects riding on the natural attacks was the point. So lv9 would be swift cast and full attack twice before needing to cast it again.
One of the really neat things of frostbite is being an instantaneous spell it isn't you holding the charge of the spell, so those rules are out, so if you cast frostbite and then cast a different touch spell, your frostbite wouldn't go away since it isn't a held charge. And there's no duration for how long the touch attacks last, so you theoretically can have them precast and just waiting for combat, as long as you don't need to touch anything that would trigger the touch attack.
It isn't a spell but if you didn't dump int you may want to look at the feats Studied Combat and Improved Studied Combat.
+4 tohit and +4 damage. Great for multiple attacks using weapons with weak crit profiles.
There's elemental strike for Ifrit, oread, sylph, or undine if you happen to be one of them.
Planar Wild Shape smite + forstbite is damage dice + strength + 1d6 cold/non-leathal + lvl + lvl cold/non-leathal.
This is highly competative damage at any level. In addition to two potentially 2 status effects (fatigue and entangle) and whatever your animal companion does. This is a lot for one round.
May, I ask what sort of power levels you are trying to achieve? Or, are you just looking for all the options so you can decide on ones you like?
Thanks, ya I am simply looking for options and picking which one to go with.
Feats
Caster's Champion is pretty good, for non-arcane people, assuming you have an arcane caster in the group. If you happen to have multiclassed as an arcane caster, then Arcane Strike is better.
Rending Claws if you are choosing a form with two claw attacks.
A lot of unarmed combat feats can be used with natural weapons with the cost of a feat, but I don't recall what it's called.
Hammer the Gap might be useful to you.
If possible (need to be Halfling OR Human with the feat Racial Heritage) Risky Striker will help.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Good luck with this.
Great! Could you give me an example of how hammer the gap would work with an octopus' 8 natural attacks? How does the damage stack up each successive hit
Would precision strike just add 1D6 to each attack or would it be 1D6+STR mod?
sneak attack adds just 1d6 per hit that qualifies.
hammer the gap does increased damage for each hit in a row.
1 hit 0 damage
2 hit +1 damage to the second hit
3 hit +2 damage to this third hit
4 hit +3 damage to this hit.
and so on
But if you miss the entire thing resets
So if you hit hit miss hit hit miss hit hit hammer the gap added 3 damage to that full attack.
sneak attack adds just 1d6 per hit that qualifies.
hammer the gap does increased damage for each hit in a row.
1 hit 0 damage
2 hit +1 damage to the second hit
3 hit +2 damage to this third hit
4 hit +3 damage to this hit.and so on
But if you miss the entire thing resetsSo if you hit hit miss hit hit miss hit hit hammer the gap added 3 damage to that full attack.
Gotcha! Thank you very much. If you were building an octopus druid would you recommend the feat? Just for flat out dealing more damage. I don't like power attack so much on the octo due to the secondary attacks it gets the power attack wouldn't be a big increase and it would hurt my to hit which a druid already only gets 3/4 BAB.
Hammer the gap is a pretty lackluster feat for what it does, many feats are stronger than it. That said, the druid does have the least access to those.
So personally I wouldn't recommend it, having 1 feat do 3-4 damage for 8 attacks doesn't seem worthwhile. But it's kinda your only choice via feats if you really want any kind of damage increase.
Hammer the gap is a pretty lackluster feat for what it does, many feats are stronger than it. That said, the druid does have the least access to those.
So personally I wouldn't recommend it, having 1 feat do 3-4 damage for 8 attacks doesn't seem worthwhile. But it's kinda your only choice via feats if you really want any kind of damage increase.
Would you take power attack considering a druids BAB for his tentacle attacks which are secondary? and one other question, when using power attack for the octopus' bite attack is it -1 to hit/+2 to damage?
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If you use it on the primary it stays on for the secondary. I tend not to take it on druids.
Druids don't have the same accuracy boosts as other classes so they really take a hit.
I think urban druids, because of divine favor, or Goliath druids because of better equipment could I would have to benchmark them.
If you use it on the primary it stays on for the secondary. I tend not to take it on druids.
Druids don't have the same accuracy boosts as other classes so they really take a hit.
I think urban druids, because of divine favor, or Goliath druids because of better equipment could I would have to benchmark them.
You mean all 8 tentacles would do -1/+2 as long as you declare it for the bite also? or do you mean once you declare your using power attack for the bite you also have to use power attack for all the secondary attacks as well?
Here is the relevant text:
"You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls”
"You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn"
Starts with the first attack and is on for all attacks. This would be really rough for the octopus.
Bigtime
Hammer the gap can add massive damage.
Imagine on your 8 tentacle and bite octopus: hammer the gap, weapon focus tentacle, multi attack, animal soul.
Hit yourself with natural rhythm as well for good measure.
Best possible damage routine round 1:
Hammer the gap: 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
Natural rhythm: 0,1,2,3,4,5,5,5,5
Total: +66 damage. I think this can be done at lvl 8.
To put this into a full example:
Human druid 8
Relevant feats: weapon focus claws. Multi attack. Hammer the gap. Animal soul.
28 str while ocypous with a belt.
Str bonus: 9
Attack routine: 15,8x14
Average ac of a cr8 enemy is 21.
Posting on phone so having to split post.
You can see that your attack routine is incredible.
You are better than a fighter at this point for sure.
Your tentacles have a 70% hit chance and your bite is 75%.
The expected damage calc is a bit confusing. You need to calc the chance of each permutation and the damage of each permutation and then multiply those and add together to get an expected damage calc.
But the chance of a max damage attack is:
0.75x(0.7^8)=0.043
So 4% chance per turn to do:
4.5 +8x2.5 + 66 + 9 + 8×4 = 131 damage.
You get free grabs on 8 of those attacks. Armor spikes adds anot her potential 8x12.5=100 damage
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Enchant the armor spikes to be +1 flaming, shocking, corrosive, frost and you instead can deal: 131 + 100 + 8×(4×3.5+1) = 351 damage.
Add in an amulet of mighty fists and you can increase this damage even more.
The armor spikes will cost 50k gold so only available at lvl 10... but the principle holds... invest in some grapple feats to increase your cmb which you are increasing because you are large anyway and your grapples should succeed most of the time... prioritise a belt of giants strength and then the armor spikes. Then get an amulet with static modifiers to allow you to hit more and further increase your cmb...
You could even throw in power attack at a point because you will benefit from it more than the fighter as your 3rd natural attack will almost always have a higher to hit than his 3rd iterative
Hammer the gap is a pretty lackluster feat for what it does, many feats are stronger than it. That said, the druid does have the least access to those.
So personally I wouldn't recommend it, having 1 feat do 3-4 damage for 8 attacks doesn't seem worthwhile. But it's kinda your only choice via feats if you really want any kind of damage increase.
Would u recommend taking precise strike with my animal companion? It would result in an extra 9D6 damage per round
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Accuracy
BAB 4 + 4 str + 2 wild shape str + 1 belt -1 size + 1 amulet of mighty fist + 1 ioun stone = +12 hit
With 100% of you wealth into accuracy (this is level 6). You can save 4000 using magic fang great.
That's is a 63% of hit a cr= and a 52% chance of hitting a cr+3 (an actually hard fight)
-5 for you secondary attack as you don't get multi-attack. 30% chance to hit. Add in power attack for an additional -2 gets us to a nice 21% chance of hitting
Now a charging tiger has 2 better attack for bite + 4 claws. That is a 60% chance to hit with 5 attacks vs 52 for 1 and 30 for 8.
Assuming equal investment in boosting damage you get touch more damage with the tiger against cr+3 and slightly less against low AC targets. But you get better speed a chance to grapple.
Hammer the gap can add massive damage.
Imagine on your 8 tentacle and bite octopus: hammer the gap, weapon focus tentacle, multi attack, animal soul.Hit yourself with natural rhythm as well for good measure.
Best possible damage routine round 1:
Hammer the gap: 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
Natural rhythm: 0,1,2,3,4,5,5,5,5
Total: +66 damage. I think this can be done at lvl 8.
To put this into a full example:Human druid 8
Relevant feats: weapon focus claws. Multi attack. Hammer the gap. Animal soul.28 str while ocypous with a belt.
Str bonus: 9Attack routine: 15,8x14
Average ac of a cr8 enemy is 21.
Hmm interesting, but unfortunately animal soul got nerfed into next week.
Without animal soul you only lose 30 damage so not the end of the world in all honesty
Thats true and the numbers are phenomenal. Ibhave multiattack do I need to spend a feat on weapon focus tentacles? Would this build take me into the later game?
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Hmm interesting, but unfortunately animal soul got nerfed into next week.Hammer the gap can add massive damage.
Imagine on your 8 tentacle and bite octopus: hammer the gap, weapon focus tentacle, multi attack, animal soul.Hit yourself with natural rhythm as well for good measure.
Best possible damage routine round 1:
Hammer the gap: 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
Natural rhythm: 0,1,2,3,4,5,5,5,5
Total: +66 damage. I think this can be done at lvl 8.
To put this into a full example:Human druid 8
Relevant feats: weapon focus claws. Multi attack. Hammer the gap. Animal soul.28 str while ocypous with a belt.
Str bonus: 9Attack routine: 15,8x14
Average ac of a cr8 enemy is 21.
Is your gm letting you take multiattack?
Remember, best cast scenario you are fighting CR=lvl encounter but they are not the encounters that kill plan for the Cr=+3 encounters.
If your first attack hits you only have a 66% chance of hitting on the next attack, 33% to connect 3 in a row, 16.5% for 4.
Your damage is going to be resetting half the time between 1 and 2 damage.
I recommend you get a DPR calculator and start comparing these because these abilities interact in ways that can only be seen when you actually crunch the number. X amount of damage total or max damage do not matter. Find average damage.
Here is one you can use. Some options you may need to calculate manually.
Good link, ya GM is allowing multiattack for when I am in wild shape form