Answer will probably end up being "unclear, GM discretion," but I'm hoping someone has some insight on this.
The following is from an unofficial faq explaining how demoralize does not stack like normal fear conditions.
Q: (10/8/09) Can you demoralize the same being more than once, and have the effects stack?
A: (Joshua J. Frost) The shaken condition gained in this matter cannot be stacked to create a stronger condition. If you succeed at another demoralize attempt, you just extend the shaken condition’s duration. There was a sentence left out of the skill description that will be noted in a future errata update.
Q: (10/8/09) Does the above mean a Shaken condition imposed by a Intimidate Skill – Demoralise can never be upgraded by another use Source of a Fear condition?
A: (Joshua J. Frost) Correct. Though, as noted above, it can extend the duration of the shaken condition.
Q: (10/8/09) Does this idea that Shaken + Shaken only increases the duration of the Shaken condition come into effect only when Demoralise is in the mix?
A: (Joshua J. Frost) Yes.
The updated demoralize description on d20pfsrd says "This shaken condition doesn’t stack with other shaken conditions to make an affected creature frightened."
It becomes clear from this that:
1. Demoralize + demoralize = extended duration
2. Demoralize + shaken from another source = extended duration
HERE IS THE QUESTION: Say I demoralize a creature, then I use a spell that normally makes a creature frightened. Obviously the fear conditions don't stack to make the creature panicked, but does the duration extension still apply? Would it be:
A. Four rounds of shaken, then four rounds of frightened?
B: effects overlap but dont stack (frightened AND panicked for four rounds), so its effectively just frightened for four rounds?
Bump. Even if you don't know, what would you rule? Is there another option besides A or B? As written the answer seems to be A, and that weird situations like this are just the result of the nerf to fear stacking via demoralize. Its so odd though that I am doubting whether this is the way it works.
Whoa. I always thought Demoralize + (other source of shaken) = frightened. That's pretty messed up.
Given that, I'd have to go for B, effects overlap (though you wrote "panicked" when you meant "shaken" in that one).
Given that, I'd have to go for B, effects overlap (though you wrote "panicked" when you meant "shaken" in that one).
This.
So say I use cause fear. Opponent frightened four rounds. Now I use skill unlock for intimidate (still demoralize). Opponent is panicked for one round, then shaken for 3.
So if interpretation B is true, we think the effects would overlap but not stack to 1 round panicked, then 3 frightened? Rather than: 4 frightened, then 1 panicked, then 3 shaken?
If we used doom (shakes opponent) instead of cause fear (frightens opponent) would they still combine since one of the demoralize rounds is panic? Or would doom extend the duration of the fear, being applied after the demoralize rounds end?
So say I use cause fear. Opponent frightened four rounds. Now I use skill unlock for intimidate (still demoralize). Opponent is panicked for one round, then shaken for 3.
So if interpretation B is true, we think the effects would overlap but not stack to 1 round panicked, then 3 frightened? Rather than: 1 panicked, then 3 shaken, then 4 frightened?
Yeah. I can't think of anything where one effect "pushes" another one to later (except the delay spells, of course, but that's different).
Thats the thing. Shaken from demoralize actually does "push" shaken from other sources. Its not perfectly clear how this works with higher levels of fear conditions, though. Assumption here is that push only occurs if fear level is the same (shaken and shaken).
Extending duration is not, to my mind at least, the same as "pushing."
Maybe it's best to ignore Frost's pseudo-FAQ until it becomes a real one. They've had plenty of time to incorporate it.... And I bet they weren't thinking of it when they wrote the skill unlock. :-(
Thats a great idea. Didnt really check the date, there. The faq ruling is an unnecessary nerf to a fun and underplayed strategy, and it causes a lot of overcomplicated interactions. Officially though, demoralize extends the duration of demoralize. This brings up one last question:
If players A and B both use skill unlock (intimidate) to demoralize for 1 round panicked, 3 rounds shaken, do the durations stack as follows? 2 rounds panicked, then 6 rounds shaken thereafter.
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Demoralize: You can use this skill to cause an opponent to become shaken for a number of rounds. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + the target's Hit Dice + the target's Wisdom modifier. If you are successful, the target is shaken for 1 round. This duration increases by 1 round for every 5 by which you beat the DC. You can only threaten an opponent in this way if they are within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you. Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition.
Fear
Spells, magic items, and certain monsters can affect characters with fear. In most cases, the character makes a Will saving throw to resist this effect, and a failed roll means that the character is shaken, frightened, or panicked.
Shaken: Characters who are shaken take a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.
Frightened: Characters who are frightened are shaken, and in addition they flee from the source of their fear as quickly as they can. They can choose the paths of their flight. Other than that stipulation, once they are out of sight (or hearing) of the source of their fear, they can act as they want. If the duration of their fear continues, however, characters can be forced to flee if the source of their fear presents itself again. Characters unable to flee can fight (though they are still shaken).
Panicked: Characters who are panicked are shaken, and they run away from the source of their fear as quickly as they can, dropping whatever they are holding. Other than running away from the source, their paths are random. They flee from all other dangers that confront them rather than facing those dangers. Once they are out of sight (or hearing) of any source of danger, they can act as they want. Panicked characters cower if they are prevented from fleeing.
Becoming Even More Fearful: Fear effects are cumulative. A shaken character who is made shaken again becomes frightened, and a shaken character who is made frightened becomes panicked instead. A frightened character who is made shaken or frightened becomes panicked instead.
As written, demoralize stack with other fear effect, it don't stack with itself.
Personally I wouldn't have it stack with other fear effect, I would only add the shaken effect at the end of the other fear effect. It is too easy to demoralize people with a minimal investment under the current rules.