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Revisited an old Rogue Archetype I once came up with. Original Here Went through it, tore it apart, and rebuilt it. Thoughts and comments welcome. Enjoy
“There is no problem that cannot be solved through the careful application of high explosives.”
The Demolitionist is an expert in explosives. With a bomb he can take out a wall, wreak havoc amongst his enemies, and set deadly traps for the unsuspecting. They are not the kind of Rogue that stabs you in the back, they are the kind that puts a bomb in your room before you go to bed at night, or lobs one in your general direction during the heat of battle. While they lack the variety of infusions that an Alchemist may possess, they are every bit as deadly with the bombs they make, and most are happy with knowing just enough alchemy “to be dangerous”.
Skills:
The Demolitionist replaces Knowledge (Dungeoneering) with Knowledge Enginerring.
Bomb (Su)
-At 1st level, a demolitionist gains the bomb class feature of an alchemist of the same level. The demolitionist treats his rogue level as his alchemist level for the purposes of qualifying for feats and discoveries that modify the bomb class feature. If the character already has the bomb class feature from another class, the levels from the classes that grant the bomb class feature stack to determine the effective alchemist level for the bomb’s extra damage dice (so an alchemist 1/ demolitionist 1 deals 1d6 + Int damage with a bomb like a 2nd level alchemist, a demolitionist 2/ alchemist 1 deals 2d6 bomb + Int damage like a 3rd alchemist, and so on.)
The Demolitionist also gains Throw Anything as a Bonus feat at 1st level.
This ability replaces Sneak Attack.
Engineering
-The Demolitionist adds half his class level as a bonus on all Knowledge Engineering checks to find structural weaknesses and on all Disable Device checks. Also if a demolitionist deals bomb damage to an object or structure and the to hit roll results in a Critical Hit, if confirmed, then the bomb deals critical hit damage to the object or structure.
This ability replaces Trap Finding
Explosive Rogue Talents:
-A demolitionist rogue may take any alchemist Discovery that modifies the bomb class feature provided he meets the discovery's prerequisites, as a Rogue Talent. He may not take any Rogue Talents that modify the Sneak Attack rogue class ability.
Delayed Bomb (Su)
-The demolitionist gains the Delayed Bomb discovery as a Rogue Talent at 2nd level even though he does not meed the prerequisites.
This ability replaces the Rogue Talent normally gained at 2nd level.
Explosives Expert (Ex)
-At 3rd level the demolitionist becomes intimately familiar with using bombs to their maximum effect. He gains a +1 bonus to hit and a +1 bonus to Damage. Against structures this bonus to damage is per die of bomb damage. These bonuses increases by an additional +1 every three levels thereafter.
This ability replaces Trap Sense
Explosive Disarm (Ex)
-At 4th level, a demolitionist can attempt to disarm a mechanical trap by detonating it rather than disarming it with a Disable Device check. As a full-round action, a demolitionist may expend one of his bombs to make a ranged touch attack against a trap, using the trap’s Disable Device DC as its AC. If the attack misses, the bomb’s splash damage activates the trap. If the attack hits, the bomb deactivates the trap without setting it off. The demolitionist must both know the location of the trap and be able to reach the trap’s trigger with a ranged touch attack in order to use this ability.
At 7th level, a demolitionist can disarm magic traps with this ability.
This ability replaces Uncanny Dodge
Demolitions Expert (Ex)
-At 8th level the demolitionist becomes a master at bringing down structures whenever he can identify their weaknesses. If he identifies a structure's weaknesses using a successful Knowledge (Engineering) check, any bomb he uses against the structure is treated as an automatically confirmed critical hit, dealing double damage, and ignoring the structures hardness.
This ability replaces Improved Uncanny Dodge
Bomb Mastery (Ex)
-At 20th level a Demolitionist becomes a deadly master with the art of using explosives. First anyone caught within the splash radius of his bombs takes splash damage as if they had received a direct hit from the bomb. Second any creature reduced to 0 or fewer hit points from a demolitionist's bomb must make an immediate Fortitude saving throw, DC 10 + ½ Demoltionist level + Intelligence Modifier, or be completely destroyed, leaving behind no body or equipment, just a trace of fine dust. If the save is successful then they are immune to this effect (but not further bomb damage) for 24 hours. The Demolitonist can choose not to apply the secondary effect of this ability but must do so before the bomb is thrown as a weapon.
This ability replaces Master Strike.
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Pretty much I wanted to streamline and revise the Archetype. I feel as though this one comes closer to actually being able to Demolish buildings, walls and structures while still being deadly proficient with Bombs.
I know Paizo has released "The Underground Chemist" as well as the Bomber and Bomber Discovery Rogue Talents. But they don't really mesh well into a unified whole, primarily because the Bomber and Bomber discovery Rogue Talents are so poorly written, with no errata to date. Also the Underground Chemist, while being good with splash weapons, really isn't good at Demolitions.
I wanted to make a rogue that uses explosives like other rogues use a set of lock picks. He comes up against a solid lock, can't pick it, blow it up. Trap, why get close, blow it up. Set an ambush with delayed bombs, watch em walk into your trap, blow'em up. Is that wall a problem, BLOW IT UP.
And to date I've yet to find any Alchemist or Bomb archetype that does this.
So here he is, the Demolitionist. He's not necessarily your sneaky back stabby rogue, he's that rogue who's going to blow up the bridge over the river before the King's Horses run you down, stage a jail break by making you an exit, and smile gleefully with a firing pin between his teeth as he lobs a bomb at his enemies.
Engineering
-The Demolitionist adds half his class level as a bonus on all Knowledge Engineering checks to find structural weaknesses and on...
You never actually give ability to deal critical hits to objects. You should make that explicit.
I mean, you are trying but you should make it allowed.
Engineering
-The Demolitionist adds half his class level as a bonus on all Knowledge Engineering checks to find structural weaknesses and on...You never actually give ability to deal critical hits to objects. You should make that explicit.
I mean, you are trying but you should make it allowed.
Pretty sure I did.
Engineering
-The Demolitionist adds half his class level as a bonus on all Knowledge Engineering checks to find structural weaknesses and on all Disable Device checks. Also if a demolitionist deals bomb damage to an object or structure and the to hit roll results in a Critical Hit, if confirmed, then the bomb deals critical hit damage to the object or structure.
Explosives Expert (Ex)
-At 3rd level the demolitionist becomes intimately familiar with using bombs to their maximum effect. He gains a +1 bonus to hit and a +1 bonus to Damage. Against structures this bonus to damage is per die of bomb damage. These bonuses increases by an additional +1 every three levels thereafter.Demolitions Expert (Ex)
-At 8th level the demolitionist becomes a master at bringing down structures whenever he can identify their weaknesses. If he identifies a structure's weaknesses using a successful Knowledge (Engineering) check, any bomb he uses against the structure is treated as an automatically confirmed critical hit, dealing double damage, and ignoring the structures hardness.
While I appreciate the gesture, these benefits are not nearly enough to actually make the character good at breaking through walls. As objects, structures naturally take half damage from energy damage. The flimsiest structural wall is a wooden wall, which has 60 hit points. At 8th level (presuming 18 intelligence) when you get this ability your bomb will deal 4d6+8 damage against objects; after the automatic critical hit, double damage, and half damage from hitting objects, you're dealing an average of 44 damage per bomb. This means you need to throw two bombs to break through even the most basic of wooden walls, and even then you could fall short with low rolls.
This is lower than what melee characters with adamantine weapons (which ignore hardness) can achieve. A character 22 strength, power attack, and a +2 adamantine greatsword deals 2d6+20 damage for an average of 27. On a full attack with 2 attacks that would give him an average 54 damage, more than what you can achieve with a bomb. Because basic weapon attacks have no limit per day he can continue to deal additional damage at no cost and can easily handle heavier masonry. For instance, 5 feet of solid stone (900 hp) would take less than 2 minutes to break through.
If you want to create a useful wall destruction ability you need to give big numbers, numbers that would be beyond unreasonable in any other circumstance. Numbers that would cause people to drop their jaws and wonder what's wrong with you (until they do the math and realize just how tame it actually is compared to a strong guy with an adamantine weapon)
Other than that, it looks like a solid archetype. The trade of sneak attack for bombs is an interesting and roughly equitable one.
Explosives Expert (Ex)
-At 3rd level the demolitionist becomes intimately familiar with using bombs to their maximum effect. He gains a +1 bonus to hit and a +1 bonus to Damage. Against structures this bonus to damage is per die of bomb damage. These bonuses increases by an additional +1 every three levels thereafter.Demolitions Expert (Ex)
-At 8th level the demolitionist becomes a master at bringing down structures whenever he can identify their weaknesses. If he identifies a structure's weaknesses using a successful Knowledge (Engineering) check, any bomb he uses against the structure is treated as an automatically confirmed critical hit, dealing double damage, and ignoring the structures hardness.While I appreciate the gesture, these benefits are not nearly enough to actually make the character good at breaking through walls. As objects, structures naturally take half damage from energy damage. The flimsiest structural wall is a wooden wall, which has 60 hit points. At 8th level (presuming 18 intelligence) when you get this ability your bomb will deal 4d6+8 damage against objects; after the automatic critical hit, double damage, and half damage from hitting objects, you're dealing an average of 44 damage per bomb. This means you need to throw two bombs to break through even the most basic of wooden walls, and even then you could fall short with low rolls.
This is lower than what melee characters with adamantine weapons (which ignore hardness) can achieve. A character 22 strength, power attack, and a +2 adamantine greatsword deals 2d6+20 damage for an average of 27. On a full attack with 2 attacks that would give him an average 54 damage, more than what you can achieve with a bomb. Because basic weapon attacks have no limit per day he can continue to deal additional damage at no cost and can easily handle heavier masonry. For instance, 5 feet of solid stone (900 hp) would take less than 2 minutes to break through.
If you want to create a useful wall destruction...
Alright so hows this:
Engineering
-The Demolitionist adds half his class level as a bonus on all Knowledge Engineering checks to find structural weaknesses and on all Disable Device checks. A successful check allows the demolitionist to deal full damage against an object or structure. Also if a demolitionist deals bomb damage to an object or structure and the to hit roll results in a Critical Hit, if confirmed, then the bomb deals critical hit damage to the object or structure.
This should mean you now deal full damage to an object (provided you make you Knowledge Engineering check) and still deal critical hit damage.
And we can alter Explosives Expert slightly with the following
Explosives Expert (Ex)
-At 3rd level the demolitionist becomes intimately familiar with using bombs to their maximum effect. He gains a +1 bonus to hit and a +1 bonus to Damage. Against structures his bomb damage increases from D6s to D8s, and the bonus to damage is per die of bomb damage. These bonuses increases by an additional +1 every three levels thereafter.
So assuming 5s are the average damage on D8s, according to the math that would now be 5D8+8+Int damage. So base of 20 damage, doubled from the auto critical 40, + 8 bonus damage, + 4 int mod is 52. Which I would say is in the ball park.
Now mind you at level 9 this would then become a base of 25, critical makes it 50, + 15 bonus, +4 Int, would be 69 damage.
You could further increase this damage by taking the discovery: Demolition Charge to gain an additional 2d6 bomb damage, which in this case would make them an additional 2D8s.
Finally we could make this modification to
Demolitions Expert (Ex)
-At 8th level the demolitionist becomes a master at bringing down structures whenever he can identify their weaknesses. First he reduces an object or structure's break DC by an amount equal to his Demolitionist class level. Second, If he identifies a structure's weaknesses using a successful Knowledge (Engineering) check, any bomb he uses against the structure allows him to make a Knowledge (Engineering) check vs its (reduced) Break DC. If the object or structure fails it immediately collapses as if reduced to 0hp. Even if the demolitionist fails to overcome the break DC the bomb is still treated as an automatically confirmed critical hit, dealing double damage, and ignoring the structures hardness.