Kineticist - Infinite healer?

[Sun Flare]

So Im reading the wild talents and I stumbled across the Kinetic healer Wild talent:

Spoiler:

KINETIC HEALER
Element aether or water; Type utility (Sp); Level 1; Burn 1; see text
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
With a touch, you can heal a willing living creature of an amount
of damage equal to your kinetic blast’s damage. Instead of
paying the burn cost yourself, you can cause the recipient to
take 1 point of burn. If you do so, the recipient takes 1 point of
nonlethal damage per Hit Die he possesses, as usual for burn;
this damage can’t be healed by any means until the recipient
takes a full night’s rest.

So with this and the ability to reduce burn by 1 as a move action. Does this give the kineticist infinite healing? as well as the healing being a huge amount for low levels! that's 1d6+1+con at level 1, that's huge! at least in my mind. Am I missing something?

[Mattosis_]

Kinetic healer is not a blast talent, so gather power does not apply to it.

[Sun Flare]

stfuidhaggt wrote:

Kinetic healer is not a blast talent, so gather power does not apply to it.

ah you're right. Thanks for the reply :)

Still a fairly insane low level healing ability... but still^^

[tchrman35]

Now, since you can give the burn to the healed, it does make you a pretty powerful healer. Plus, that NL provides an additional buffer between unconscious and dead/dying.

But no, you can't reduce the burn for KH.

[Glorf Fei-Hung]

tchrman35 wrote:

Now, since you can give the burn to the healed, it does make you a pretty powerful healer. Plus, that NL provides an additional buffer between unconscious and dead/dying.

But no, you can't reduce the burn for KH.

It may provide an additional buffer between unconscious and dead, but at the cost as the reduced buffer between full health and unconscious. I'm not sure that's a trade off I'd really want unless it was used initially to prevent a death.

[Ridiculon]

it is the lesser version of this:

Healing Burst:

Element aether, void, water, wood; Type utility (Sp); Level 4;

Burn 1

Prerequisites kinetic healer or void healer

Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes

You use kinetic healer or void healer (whichever you have, or

either if you have both) to heal all creatures in a 30-foot radius

around you. Healing burst heals half as much damage as normal,

unless your healing amount is based on positive blast, in which

case it heals the full amount. Unlike with kinetic healer, you must

accept the burn yourself. This counts as kinetic healer for the

purpose of the kinetic chirurgeon archetype (Occult Adventures

90); the 17th-level metahealer ability heals the kinetic chirurgeon

twice, once for half and once for full.

Kinetic healers get a huge boost with this talent, Wood Kineticists in particular become uber healers.

[Ravingdork]

tchrman35 wrote:

But no, you can't reduce the burn for KH.

Just wanted to point out that you CAN reduce the burn for Kinetic Healing, you just need to use different abilities, such as your internal buffer.

[Zephyre14]

Ridiculon wrote:

it is the lesser version of this:

** spoiler omitted **

Kinetic healers get a huge boost with this talent, Wood Kineticists in particular become uber healers.

It may just be because I am behind a firewall, but I can not find this Healing Burst ability. What is the source on it?

[Ridiculon]

its in the new Psychic Anthology book

[Zephyre14]

Thank you much.

[Markov Spiked Chain]

Just because of the title, here's the proper way to get infinite (slow) heals on a Kineticist:

Aether Kineticist with 1 level dip into Life Oracle (I took the Seeker AT for Disable Device and Trapfinding.)

Let your Force Ward fill up to 5 Temp HP.
Use Life Link on ally.
Next turn, they heal 5, you take 5 damage to Temp HP, and cancel Life Link.
Repeat.

If you really need to get the last 1-4 damage on an ally, gently bleed/stab/punch them until they get to exactly 5 damage and Life Link ticks.

[Snowlilly]

Markov Spiked Chain wrote:

Just because of the title, here's the proper way to get infinite (slow) heals on a Kineticist:

Aether Kineticist with 1 level dip into Life Oracle (I took the Seeker AT for Disable Device and Trapfinding.)

Let your Force Ward fill up to 5 Temp HP.
Use Life Link on ally.
Next turn, they heal 5, you take 5 damage to Temp HP, and cancel Life Link.
Repeat.

If you really need to get the last 1-4 damage on an ally, gently bleed/stab/punch them until they get to exactly 5 damage and Life Link ticks.

Burn wrote:

Nonlethal damage from burn can’t be reduced or redirected.

Life Link will not work on Burn.

[derpdidruid]

He meant that you use your kineticist defensive talent to get temp HP, use life link on that, wait for more temp HP, repeat.

still doesn't work though, because for life link to work you need to take at least 5 damage. so you can never get a net positive from it.

[miscdebris]

Snowlilly wrote:

derpdidruid wrote:

He meant that you use your kineticist defensive talent to get temp HP, use life link on that, wait for more temp HP, repeat.

still doesn't work though, because for life link to work you need to take at least 5 damage. so you can never get a net positive from it.

Neither Life Link nor temp hit points work vs. burn. Damage from burn cannot be redirected or reduced.

Markov Spiked Chain isn't talking about burn. MSC is talking about healing someone else with life link using the temp HPs from force ward to soak the damage.

[derpdidruid]

You're not using any burn with his strategy, temporary hit points happen on their own, you don't spend burn to get them. His idea was to use the defense wild talent to get infinite healing from life link. It doesn't work though because you need to take 5 damage to heal 5 from life link.

[Markov Spiked Chain]

@derpidruid I don't know what you're reading. The target has to have at least 5 damage to get healed for 5 from Life Link. There's no other conditional: "it heals 5 hit points and you take 5 hit points of damage." That 5 damage comes off of your temporary hit points. Rinse and repeat.

Life Link wrote:

Life Link (Su): As a standard action, you may create a bond between yourself and another creature. Each round at the start of your turn, if the bonded creature is wounded for 5 or more hit points below its maximum hit points, it heals 5 hit points and you take 5 hit points of damage. You may have one bond active per oracle level. This bond continues until the bonded creature dies, you die, the distance between you and the other creature exceeds medium range, or you end it as an immediate action (if you have multiple bonds active, you may end as many as you want as part of the same immediate action).

[derpdidruid]

Yes but but the bonded creature has to take 5 damage to trigger the affect and it only heals 5. so you cant get more HP than you started with.

[Markov Spiked Chain]

Do you mean the "if the bonded creature is wounded for 5 or more hit points below its maximum hit points," clause?

"is wounded" is a state. Life Link ticks every turn as long as the target still has damage.

[Chess Pwn]

derpdidruid wrote:

Yes but but the bonded creature has to take 5 damage to trigger the affect and it only heals 5. so you cant get more HP than you started with.

I have 5 temp HP and 50 normal HP and life link going on my friend.

friend has 5 HP out of 50 normal HP.

My life link triggers, he heals 5 hp going to 10.
I lose 5 temp HP.
I stop life link.
My temp HP recharges.
I start life link again.
My life link triggers, he heals 5 hp going to 15.
I lose 5 temp HP.
I stop life link.
My temp HP recharges.
I start life link again.
...
My life link triggers, he heals 5 hp going to 50.
I lose 5 temp HP.
I stop life link.
My temp HP recharges.

45 HP has been generated between the 2 of us.

This is the infinite healing Markov Spiked Chain is talking about

[derpdidruid]

Ah. Well. The shaman in my home game is either going to be happy or horrified as we've been running it the way I stated it there for almost a year and a half... Good to know, that makes the power a lot more useful in my eyes.

[Saethori]

This healing method does, however, recover health at the rate of 1 hit point per minute. Depending on how much damage your party has taken, and how much your GM pays attention to elapsed time, it may honestly be better to use other, more limited methods just to get on your feet faster.

[Texas Snyper]

Saethori wrote:

This healing method does, however, recover health at the rate of 1 hit point per minute. Depending on how much damage your party has taken, and how much your GM pays attention to elapsed time, it may honestly be better to use other, more limited methods just to get on your feet faster.

You recover at the rate of 1 HP/min + 1 additional HP/min per 2 burn you have invested into the defense. So 4 burn invested in it would then be 3 HP/minute.

[derpdidruid]

You are pretty much giving a level for what basically amounts to a limitless wand of infernal healing.

[Lady-J]

can you have the healed creature take the burn if they are immune to non lethal? i know the kenetisist cant take burn if they are immune but it doesnt say anything about other creatures

[Tacticslion]

dotdot

[Ridiculon]

Lady-J wrote:

can you have the healed creature take the burn if they are immune to non lethal? i know the kenetisist cant take burn if they are immune but it doesnt say anything about other creatures

I think this makes them immune to the kinetic healer ability as well, faq'd cause the Burn section only describes the consequences of the Kineticist being immune to burn

[Ckorik]

Ridiculon wrote:

it is the lesser version of this:

** spoiler omitted **

Kinetic healers get a huge boost with this talent, Wood Kineticists in particular become uber healers.

I'm missing it - (honestly) can you explain why that makes it so much better?

[vhok]

Temp hit points do not interact with non lethal damage.
Non lethal is not true damage and applies to a different part you would not use temp hit points as you are not taking damage

[Ridiculon]

Ckorik wrote:

Ridiculon wrote:

it is the lesser version of this:

** spoiler omitted **

Kinetic healers get a huge boost with this talent, Wood Kineticists in particular become uber healers.

I'm missing it - (honestly) can you explain why that makes it so much better?

Instead of healing one person you can now heal the whole party for the same cost. The Wood Kineticist can get a version (if the build for it) that heals for the whole blast damage instead of the normal half blast damage.

So at the first level you can use this talent you will be healing for ((4d6 + (con * .5)) / 2) multiplied by however many party members you have for only 1 burn. get rid of the /2 for the wood kineticist build

Granted, Mass Cure Critical Wounds still puts out more healing. But this Talent doesn't cost spell slots

[Markov Spiked Chain]

You're also healing 20% of the damage with Virtue, so ~2.5/minute with 2 burn. It's quite nice when you have an actual Life Oracle or Shaman in the party, as you ping pong damage from everyone away as fast as you can cast Virtue.

derpidruid wrote:

You are pretty much giving a level for what basically amounts to a limitless wand of infernal healing.

Yeah, it's not broken, just amusing. You do also pick up Trapfinding, Disable Device as a class skill, and couple of spells/ day. Fallback Strategy in particular is great for a kineticist since you're making one big attack.