Well, the Solarion class is mostly melee oriented from what we've seen. Additionally, two core classes out of seven are casters. I think the fantasy bits will be up front if you like it.
If you watch the play test from when they had the Humble Bundle, they has a technomancer that more than doubled the damage on a weapon using their magic. The same character was throwing Magic Missile spells and shooting electricity from their paws.
It looks like it will be science fantasy with plenty of magic.
Developer, Starfinder Team
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It kinda depends on what you mean by "is everything just attaching a magic rune to a regular piece of equipment."
For example, a magic sword is just a regular sword that has a magic effect added to it. Most magic weapons in Pathfinder are created by selecting a base (mundane) weapon and then selecting what magic qualities to give it. The story-related reasons that happened might be mythological, but the game rules, including determining the time and cost for a player character to do it themselves, are pretty prosaic.
Now in w world with flamethrowers, there's less call for a wand of burning hands, or even a burning hands spell. But certainly there's still lots of need (and thus drive to create) a holy flamethrower.
So magic weapons are very much a thing in Starfinder, as are spells, spellcsters, and many other forms of magic.
Similarly while ubiquitous ranged weapons change the dynamic of combat, there are still good reasons to make a melee-focused character, and effective ways to do so.
But obviously we hope you'll check out the balance of these things yourself when the core rulebook is released!
There is an item called the decanter of endless water, what if there was a decanter of endless fire? Can you say Rocket!I'm not sure I would trust Rocket with that . . . or any of the Guardians with it, for that matter . . .
I am... Groot?
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I'm a bit concerned that there won't be enough fantasy in the game, but I think that's just because Pathfinder is already fantasy, so the fans (and designers and developers?) are talking mostly about the space part.
I'm a bit concerned that there won't be enough fantasy in the game, but I think that's just because Pathfinder is already fantasy, so the fans (and designers and developers?) are talking mostly about the space part.
I have the same concern. How many magical beasts, outsiders, fey and the likes are going to inhabit the planets, the lands, how much will these creatures of fantasy influence the world of Starfinder.
With Pathfinder we have nations ruled by vampires and ghosts. Its a world where kingdoms are built under the influence of devils, angels and even might Dragons, but also of humans with powers that rivals those of demigods. There are forests dominated by the fey and others where demons are lords.
How much is the whole Pact Worlds Setting influenced by mythology and fantasy? That's probably what we are all concerned about.
I hope everything is well balanced, just as in Iron Gods or in other travels we did into the distant worlds inside Pathfinder Setting (like that trip with our dear grandmother Baba-Yaga to Triaxus).
Well I guess that is up to you. If I recall there will be a guide to transfer various monsters from Pathfinder Bestiaries into the star-finder system. So that means any of those monsters you encountered in the past can be included in the starfinder games. Imagine a Liminal Sprite(from beastiary 5) trying to live in a space shuttle? What constitutes as indoor and outdoor? Or imagine encountering a outer Dragon while flying in your space-ship? Or gremlins messing with your engines. Or landing on a mystery planet, only to come face to face with the Chimera, a beast you had only heard of in legends. Unless of course Absalom station has a chimera problem :p/ And if I recall their are planets in the setting ruled by undead, so precedent is there for planets with fantastical niches. Plus the playtest has the pc's going up against Goblins a staple of the Paizo fantasy.
I think the most important thing to remember is that at the end of the day this is the future, and so some fantasy will be pushed back to include the science aspects of it. However it isn't going away, just room is being made for other things.
While we can easily create or own settings just like we do with Pathfinder rules, I'm a big fan of the Pathfinder Setting as well. So my primary concern is with Starfinder main Setting.
As you said, we are talking about a futuristic setting, so of course some things will have changed drastically in terms of environments, inhabitants, culture, and so on. However, we are also talking about a setting that "resolves" around numerous planets; Castrovel, Triaxus and Akiton being just few of the core ones. I'm sure this also means that the number of possibilities for the setting is infinity.
There has to be a planet inhabited by fey (Castrovel), or by dragons (Triaxus), and just as we have futuristic societies and planets in Pathfinder Setting, I'm sure there are going to be planets inhabited by primitive societies in Starfinder.
Honestly I'm hoping Starfinder can also support a more sci-fi oriented game than a fantasy one. Something among the lines of Bungie's Destiny game or something, where it's less science fantasy, more "mythic science fiction", though I guess those terms could be synonymous in some ways. Luckily it would be more of a flavor thing: reflavoring magic as something else, and so on. This is all talking about a homebrew setting mind you, I know Golarionverse in Starfinder is more or less "fantasy transplanted into space".
Actually, since they mentioned it'll be "Science Fantasy," it'll be both. Meaning, it has something for everyone and the developers mentioned there are "bajillons" of races and cultures, which means many more worlds than Golarion. So it makes sense for fantasy to coexist with science fiction elements.
I wasn't saying that there shouldn't be any fantasy elements at all, just that they're not as prevalent as the sci-fi ones. Keep in mind I'm still just talking about theoretical homebrew stuff, not Golarionverse, since I have zero interest in playing in that setting. For example, renaming "magic" to something else more pseudoscience sounding, maybe psionics. Said magic is rather rare, making PCs who can use it stand out. Not having generic fantasy races like dwarves, elves, dragons, goblins, angels, demons, etc. FTL travel wasn't granted by gods, and "other dimensions" are usually in the realm of bizarre at best, horrifying at worst. No elemental planes, astral sea, heaven/hell, etc.
I know that's all easily doable by just disallowing certain races, making a few new ones, and just reflavoring a bunch of stuff so I'm not too worried. I guess for me most of the fantasy elements would be more thematic and shaped in the narrative itself rather than the content, other than "magic" and such.
Which is why I hope the Golarionverse's setting aren't entrenched into the rules or something, for people that want to tip the scales more in the direction of either fantastical (Dragonstar) or more sci-fi (Destiny). But even here I'm not too worried since that wasn't really the case with Pathfinder, you could do a whole bunch of genres with that.
Precursors, Seeders, Preservers, Forerunners, etc. ... they're all the same! :)
... Do the Annunaki (spelling?) count too?
Said magic is rather rare, making PCs who can use it stand out.
Yeah, ya don't see many psions around here except with, you know, every group of adventurers.
Boy, I hope not
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Boy, I hope notIt's a game built around magic as a basic assumption. Taking it out or drastically limiting it is going to be stressing the system pretty heavily. You're not doing what it's intended for.
How do we know it's "built around magic"? As far as I'm aware, magic isn't sidelined in Starfinder, but mundane technology exceeds it in prominence and usage.
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Personally, I don't want cool sci fi troupes and ideas being hamstrung by a desire to keep it 'fantasy'. I think they should take Tolkein and Martin, shove them in an air lock, and space them to make room for Burroughs, Howard, Wells, and Herbert.
Spelljammer is not science fantasy, it is pure fantasy, except set in an unconventional realm, ie fantasy space. Star Wars has a kind of low level magic, the kind that pushes things around or gathers information from a distance if we set Emperor Palpatine loose in Gorlarion without his minions, how far do you think he would get? I think a middling level wizard with a few lightning bolt spells could stop him, what do you think?1) Three out of seven classes are magic based.
2) it's based on the Pathfinder rules and set in the same universe.
3) a major faction is undead.
4) FTL travel may take you on a short cut though Hell.It's pretty clear Starfinder is doing the same as Shadowrun, but with space opera instead of cyberpunk.
If you like straight SF there are better RPG systems available.
If you like straight fantasy there are better RPG systems available.
If you like a fairly even mix of both then consider Starfinder**but there are still other options. E.g. Shadowrun, 3 different Star Wars RPG systems, Spelljammer, etc
It would depend on how they felt like statting him up. He is a very familiar character that's powerful, so people love to place people like that at beyond 20 levels with Mythic attached to it.
Personally, I see him in the teens.
Something worth pointing out...there might be 3 magic using classes, but IIRC don't they all max out spellcasting at 6th level? That automatically suggests a somewhat reduced level of magic compared to baseline Pathfinder.
It's still Space Fantasy, but the fantasy elements probably are not overwhelming the Space bits.
With Pathfinder we have nations ruled by vampires and ghosts.And in Distant Worlds we covered that within the system that is now the Pact Worlds we have Eox, ruled by the undead Bone Sage.
1) Three out of seven classes are magic based.
2) it's based on the Pathfinder rules and set in the same universe.
3) a major faction is undead.
4) FTL travel may take you on a short cut though Hell.It's pretty clear Starfinder is doing the same as Shadowrun, but with space opera instead of cyberpunk.
If you like straight SF there are better RPG systems available.
If you like straight fantasy there are better RPG systems available.
If you like a fairly even mix of both then consider Starfinder**but there are still other options. E.g. Shadowrun, 3 different Star Wars RPG systems, Spelljammer, etc
1) keeping in mind that these same spells only go up to level six.
2) as far as we understand, Starfinder is its own creature in ruleset. Of course, we'll see how true that is in practice. Also, there is no assumption that you MUST use Pathfinder's universe; i have no intention to use it.
3 and 4) again, this is assuming that you're using the core Golarionverse setting, which I am not.
Also, in Shadowrun, you can choose to have storylines or runs that focus more on its fantasy aspects, or its cyberpunk aspects. Its actually not terribly common that runs should include equal parts of both, at least in my experience.
I hate Shadowrun's system, regardless of which edition it is. I don't like any of the Star Wars systems because they assume you're using Star Wars' setting. And Spelljammer is not science fiction.
So that's why I'm still going to give Starfinder a chance. If it ends up being just as complex in rules as Pathfinder then I will ditch it. If they, say, give advice for new players on what feats to pick, builds, etc. and allows me to use a setting where magic is nowhere near as widespread as technology while still maintaining some kinda presence, then that would be rad.
1) fewer spell levels does not mean the spells are less powerful. It may just mean they have sorted out scaling so you don't need higher level...
We'll just have to see. This is kind of semantics at this point since we simply know very little. I'd like to hope that 6th level means 6th level, i.e. if you want to use more powerful stuff, you gotta work for it, not simply level up. But again, it's all up in the air at this point.
2, 3, 4) If you aren't going to use the setting, why are you so keen to give Paizo your money?
The same reason why people buy Pathfinder products but never use Golarion as a setting. I won't claim to speak for them but I never got the impression that most of Paizo's stuff mandate you using their setting, otherwise it's a waste of your money. The only things I can think of are the Technology Guide, and even then it's not impossible to tweak that for your own stuff.
1) Or it may just mean that the top end of magic is scaled down, which doesn't mean the lower levels are any less common or integral to the system.
*shrug* August can't come soon enough, that much is for certain!
2-4)Obviously, you don't have to use the setting, but the system's going to work best in a setting with similar assumptions. Not all the details need be the same, of course, any more than they would in PF.
Going for a radically different approach will be harder to make work.
I disagree, I've seen all sorts of cool and interesting settings for Pathfinder campaigns, and not a whole lot of them bore much resemblance to Golarion, if at all.
I never wanted to do a radically different approach, actually. I would merely reflavor a whole bunch of stuff, and have a less fantastical cosmology. I don't think it would be too upsetting to simply assume technology is at least somewhat more prominent than magic, not that they're equally important. It's really a matter of setting, not rules or mechanics.
If the fantasy outshines the science, I personally would not be interested. I'm hoping for SciFi with some fantasy allowed and usable, but if fantasy is what you really want, why make a whole new game? If the fantasy is the core, why not just make an Adventure Path in Pathfinder with some laser guns and a spaceship as a backdrop?
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In the Twitch video playtest and interview, Paizo did address the question of 9th level spellcasting:
Q: Why does spellcasting top off at 6th level in Starfinder?
OKCS: Well it doesn't, exactly. And that's like asking why does a Bard top off at 6th level. You can't have a class that does absolutely everything. The classes that we have built as the core initial classes for Starfinders are blending spellcasting and other stuff they can do. Technomancers have other options, mystics have other options, and it makes the most sense for them to have 6-level spells for the same reason we do that in Pathfinder. For example, wish is in the Core Rulebook, as is miracle, and there are specific ways you can get access to that. Also, as we expand the universe, again, we only have so much room in this book. I don't know if you've looked at the Spells section of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook, but it's not small. And so having 6-level casters allows us to try and give you some of everything, and if there's a big demand for more spellcasting information later that's something we can address.
But these characters have enough spellcasting to be recognizable spellcasters, to be effective, to be interesting, to have a range of options, without necessarily being defined just by their spellcasting, which is very close to the way most of the 9-level casters in Pathfinder are defined. Their spells are their primary consideration.
AHK: We want magic to augment what your character does, we don't want your character to only be able to do magic. And I think simplification was a consideration as well, that way you don't have to keep track of a class that is 9-level caster vs. a 6-level caster and what level that they get thing. It sort of standardizes access to magic vs. other types of classes.
I disagree, I've seen all sorts of cool and interesting settings for Pathfinder campaigns, and not a whole lot of them bore much resemblance to Golarion, if at all.
Well... similar assumptions and resemblance to Golarion are two overy different things. For all that I like parts of Golarion, a lot of it is an anachronistic cludge of kitchen sink elements and naked historical expies, many of which don't fit together or work together at all.
But the kitchen sink nature of the setting matches up well with most D&D settings that have been published. The broad assumptions that matter are there is a nonsensically huge array of intelligent races, many of whom are ugly, wear black hats or otherwise conveniently labelled for face stabbing and looting, as well as several fallen empires around so there are convenient architectural bones to pick through. Also there is a metric ton of magic floating around, but conveniently only in the hands of people that matter, and it rarely makes much of an impact on Steve the crap-covered farmer.
The assumptions that seem to matter for starfinder are:
- magic and tech are both easily available to anyone, and both are everyday things.
- there are threats out there in the dark, and it's largely unexplored, so there are plenty of excuses for a small band to poke around looking for things. Old ruins, scraps of knowledge, pirates, slavers, evil aliens, sexy aliens, basically the standard sort of aliens that Captain Kirk could wrap an adventure around, even if Spock were an actual elvish space wizard.
And at some point you might well have to help the Gorn-Klingons fight off the not!Zerg at Z'ha'dum, because Things Beyond have convinced some guy with a lightning fetish to build a Death Star there.
1) fewer spell levels does not mean the spells are less powerful. It may just mean they have sorted out scaling so you don't need higher level...
We'll just have to see. This is kind of semantics at this point since we simply know very little. I'd like to hope that 6th level means 6th level, i.e. if you want to use more powerful stuff, you gotta work for it, not simply level up. But again, it's all up in the air at this point.
The same reason why people buy Pathfinder products but never use Golarion as a setting. I won't claim to speak for them but I never got the impression that most of Paizo's stuff mandate you using their setting, otherwise it's a waste of your money. The only things I can think of are the Technology Guide, and even then it's not impossible to tweak that for your own stuff.
2, 3, 4) If you aren't going to use the setting, why are you so keen to give Paizo your money?
But the only USPs for Starfinder are it's setting and it's connection to the Pathfinder universe. Otherwise you could use any of a large quantity of D20 Space stuff already available (much free) plus some home-brew rules.
There are a couple of reasons people use Pathfinder without the setting, but the main ones are: a) 4th edition D&D was awful, and b) there is a huge quantity of free resources available via the open source licence. Neither of these apply to Starfinder.
Or, they already have their own setting in mind, or have no interest in Golarion, or both. I fall into that third category.
D20 space stuff + home brew is simply not going to work, because that all relies on 3.5 stuff, which is even WORSE than Pathfinder. I'm hoping that SF is an even more refined version of PF, which by itself is a refined version of 3.5.
But I'd like to hope that Paizo doesn't assume that we're going to use their default setting, in the same fashion that they made no such assumption with Pathfinder too. If I make the supernatural and fantastical elements of SF less obvious or widespread I'd like to think that that won't somehow destroy the ENTIRE game, in the same fashion that playing Dark Sun doesn't destroy D&D or Pathfinder the second you try to use it.
If neither of those things end up being not true then congratulations, the efforts to unsell me on buying Starfinder in here was successful.