Questions about haunts in book 2 (obviously spoilers inside)

[claudekennilol]

So the haunts in the Manor only affect one person at a time. Do the other PCs see anything about them? Like, for the dagger/wood knife that attempts a coup de grace on self, do other PCs see that it's a dagger, or that the PC picked up a knife?

For the scarf that attempts to strangle a PC, I'm supposing the other people would see the scarf, but not the ghostly image of Aldern. Likewise, I think this would be about the only haunt that could affect someone immune to fear, because this is a physical object doing the harm instead of something supernatural. Do all the PCs get a chance to see the scarf move, or just the PC affected by the haunt?

The one via the piano..the other PCs would just see the person dancing by themselves as they can't see the haunt?

I've got a cleric in the group. If he can't notice the haunt, then there's nothing he can do in the surprise round to affect it (accept for the one that would affect him, obviously). So even though he doesn't know what's going on, he could then just channel and as long as he's close enough to the source of the haunt (which is extremely likely given the size of the rooms), he could still damage it without knowing there's something there other than one of his party mates acting oddly?

[Jhaeman]

Every haunt has a Perception check DC, and every character that makes that check and has an initiative higher than 10 in the resulting surprise round could do something like run out of the room, buff, or (for a cleric) channel energy and hope that the haunt is within range to destroy it.

If the haunt does manifest (on count 10 in the Initiative order), only the affected creature sees any of the spiritual manifestation (a ghostly dance partner, etc.); the others, however, will see whatever actions are taken by the affected creature or any other real things manipulated by the haunt. So yes, others would see a character dancing by himself, trying to kill himself with a sharp splinter of wood (instead of a dagger), etc.

[claudekennilol]

Jhaeman wrote:

Every haunt has a Perception check DC, and every character that makes that check and has an initiative higher than 10 in the resulting surprise round could do something like run out of the room, buff, or (for a cleric) channel energy and hope that the haunt is within range to destroy it.

I thought that was only the Perception DC if the PC had a means of detecting it (a la Detect Evil/Undead). Outside of that, it should only be detectable if the haunt's description itself says it can be detected (like the afore mentioned suicide haunt specifically gives a chance to see the Knife before the haunt goes off).

[mousmous]

I don't know if it's in the book, but I always gave each haunt something tangibly noticeable to tip them off. I remember some do have descriptions of what can be perceived(like the faint tinkling of the piano in the piano haunt...?) but if they didn't, I made something up like the room growing cold enough to see one's breath, or a pinpoint of light hovering around the person to be affected by the haunt. Failed Perception meant they didn't notice it.

I remember the one about the piano, because my party had been through enough haunts at that point that when they heard the piano seeming to play by itself, or so they thought, they NOPE'd right out of that room.

I think it's your choice how you deal with them, I think it's just as valid to have the scarf animate and attack as it is for the affected player strangling themselves with the scarf while believing the scarf's animated. In comparing the two in my mind, as a player, I would assume something else was going on if my party member was strangling themselves, but I'm not sure I would know the difference between a haunted strangle scarf and a magical strangle scarf... so slipping back into DM mode, I would probably add something to the room to tip off players that the scarf was part of a haunt, and not a cursed magic item. To answer your actual question, though, I would give them all a chance to see the scarf move. Heh. If you just leave it as the scarf, then they might take the wrong action in countering it, should they believe it's a magically animated scarf, and not haunted.

[Kalshane]

I would agree that it adds to the creepiness (and also makes things feel less like "Blam! Something sucky just happened to you!") if the haunts give some sort of sign before they occur.

[Tinalles]

Haunts definitely have obvious manifestations. From the Haunts rules:

PRD wrote:

Although haunts function like traps, they are difficult to detect since they cannot be easily observed until the round in which they manifest. Detect undead or detect alignment spells of the appropriate type allow an observer a chance to notice a haunt even before it manifests (allowing that character the appropriate check to notice the haunt, but at a –4 penalty).

So any PC can make the check to notice a haunt once it has started manifesting. Detect undead/evil spells give you the opportunity to notice it before it manifests, with a penalty.

[ckdragons]

Does this mean only the PCs with detect spells active have a chance to act in the surprise round?

What about rogues with trap finding searching for traps or with the Trap Spotting talent? (Since haunts are "like traps")

[Tinalles]

PRD wrote:

When a haunt is triggered, its effects manifest at initiative rank 10 in a surprise round. All characters in the haunt's proximity can attempt to notice the haunt at the start of this surprise round by making a notice check).

So the order of events is:

Pre-surprise round: anyone with Detect Undead or an appopriate Detect Alignment spell can make a notice check at -4. If they notice it, they can do stuff proactively, like saying "stop, there's a haunt, back up."

Start of Surprise Round: the haunt begins manifesting. Everybody gets to make a notice check. Anybody who passes the check rolls initiative and can act. Everybody who failed to notice it is out of luck.

The Surprise Round: Go in initiative order. The Haunt goes on 10. Anybody who goes before the haunt can try to deal with it using any appropriate effects they've got -- e.g. channel energy, cure spells, lay on hands, etc. If they haven't got any such abilities, well, they can always run away.

One thing I recommend doing to heighten the effect of haunts is this:

1) When the PCs enter the area, have them roll initiative immediately and tell them that you'll use those initiatives when they come to the next encounter.

2) When they reach a haunt, use the initiatives they rolled previously.

3) After the haunt has resolved, have them roll a fresh initiative for the next encounter.

And so on. Rolling initiative at the END of an encounter means that when you come to the next encounter you can jump straight in without having to stop and spend two minutes rolling dice, doing math, getting the results, and putting everybody in order. The time that takes really kills the tension.

[Tinalles]

Sorry for the double post, I just noticed the question about rogues and trapfinding since haunts are "like traps".

No, trapfinding does not make it easier to notice haunts. If you want a rogue-like PC who can do that, I direct your attention to the Investigator archetype Skeptic, which replaces trapfinding with a similar ability called hauntfinding:

Haunted Heroes Handbook wrote:

Hauntfinding (Su): At 1st level, a skeptic’s knowledge of haunts allows her to notice them with ease, regardless of the methods by which the haunts make their presence known in the realm of the living. The skeptic adds 1/2 her level to all skill checks to notice haunts. If she notices a haunt, she adds this same bonus to any initiative check made as a result of that haunt activating. This bonus is an insight bonus.

This ability replaces trapfinding.

[claudekennilol]

Tinalles wrote:

1) When the PCs enter the area, have them roll initiative immediately and tell them that you'll use those initiatives when they come to the next encounter.

2) When they reach a haunt, use the initiatives they rolled previously.

3) After the haunt has resolved, have them roll a fresh initiative for the next encounter.

This is a really good idea.