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a fighter who actually uses skills other than climb, swim, knowledge (dungeoneering or engineering), or survival (and lore wardens with multiple knowledges dont count) cept my fighter skill-monkey
"There isn't anything a fighter can't do if he puts his mind to it."
"My craft is illustrating, because how else do you plan on me putting pictures in my Chronicles?"
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I seem to be one of the rare Prestige Class takers as well, with a Lantern Bearer, a Bloatmage (no-early-bs, possibly the very first), a Pathfinder Savant, an Eldritch Knight, and on the way to Halfling Opportunist.
Considering the synergy, I've seen surprisingly few cleric/monks (or even druid/monks), only my -1 that I recall actually seeing.
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"Yeah, he was. Lot of good his fancy finery did him on that adventure. Motherf$%+ing arcane caster with no arcane knowledge having m*!@+*%*&+$%."What a bothersome term. Rest assured that the only 'chains' around me are the ones made of gold and adorned with fine jewels.Weren't you the summoner that was ouclassed by our Cleric that wasn't even appropriately strong to come on the adventure in the first place?
I remember needing a wizard, and you couldn't even figure out what to summon to help us.
"Excuse me? I have a wide variety of talents at my disposal! It's just that most of them apply to other interests. Interests that don't involve the -incredibly- specific topic of an ancient Thassilonian rituals.
I think we were all pushed to out limits in there. At least I didn't get kicked off of the material plane within the first few seconds after our arrival."
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Appalachia
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I've seen two sword & board Slayers who TWF (one is mine) and a Fighter, but even then I feel TWF is kind of a waste. I mean, most of them are waiting until a party member steps into a flank for them, because if they have to tumble into a flank, they can't TWF. Fighter and Slayer at least have the advantage of having a decent to-hit that doesn't get shot once you TWF. I get that aiming for multiple attacks in order to make at least one attack connect is a reasonable thing to do, but TWF of a 3/4 BAB class that already doesn't have an intrinsic way of boosting their to-hit is kind of a waste. I'd just like to know the math to see when TWF is viable against 1WF. Obviously versus very low AC, and very high AC, when you almost need to crit-fish in order to hit, but where's that turning point? Zadim is an awesome pregen, but I still think having him use a two-hander is still more efficient than TWF with two 1d4 18-20 weapons.
A friend has a Ninja/Paladin that uses a greatsword, that works wonders. Not dependent on flanking to dish out damage, but still a nice boost when you do. I had a Sap Master Ninja (pre-nerf) with a Merciful earth breaker, because I wanted to see how many d6es I could roll on a single attack. Spoiler: a stupid amount of d6. I was even considering sticking Vicious on it for even more dice, but then the errata hit.
I just genned up a TWF Medium - stacking all the champion bonuses seems like itd work pretty well especially if you get a weapon focus going - using champion to get proficiency with a double weapon.
Plus mediums are really cool and I have been wanting to play one for a while.
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I just genned up a TWF Medium - stacking all the champion bonuses seems like itd work pretty well especially if you get a weapon focus going - using champion to get proficiency with a double weapon.
Plus mediums are really cool and I have been wanting to play one for a while.
I did something similar with a grippli boon and the Fiend Keeper medium archetype from Blood of the Beasts. The goal is to eventually go crit fishing with Weapon Finesse and a pair of kukris.
But with the racial strength penalty, and no dex to damage, I'm worried about doing enough damage to get past DR at mid-high levels. I think I'll be ok most of the time just getting kukris in every possible material, along with using UMD on scrolls of Bless Weapon and the like. Worst case scenario, at least I'll still be casting Haste and other buffs on the rest of the party, even if I'm not damaging things myself, so I won't be completely useless.
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I just genned up a TWF Medium - stacking all the champion bonuses seems like itd work pretty well especially if you get a weapon focus going - using champion to get proficiency with a double weapon.
Plus mediums are really cool and I have been wanting to play one for a while.
I did something similar with a grippli boon and the Fiend Keeper medium archetype from Blood of the Beasts. The goal is to eventually go crit fishing with Weapon Finesse and a pair of kukris.
But with the racial strength penalty, and no dex to damage, I'm worried about doing enough damage to get past DR at mid-high levels. I think I'll be ok most of the time just getting kukris in every possible material, along with using UMD on scrolls of Bless Weapon and the like. Worst case scenario, at least I'll still be casting Haste and other buffs on the rest of the party, even if I'm not damaging things myself, so I won't be completely useless.
agile kukris?
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agile kukris?I just genned up a TWF Medium - stacking all the champion bonuses seems like itd work pretty well especially if you get a weapon focus going - using champion to get proficiency with a double weapon.
Plus mediums are really cool and I have been wanting to play one for a while.
I did something similar with a grippli boon and the Fiend Keeper medium archetype from Blood of the Beasts. The goal is to eventually go crit fishing with Weapon Finesse and a pair of kukris.
But with the racial strength penalty, and no dex to damage, I'm worried about doing enough damage to get past DR at mid-high levels. I think I'll be ok most of the time just getting kukris in every possible material, along with using UMD on scrolls of Bless Weapon and the like. Worst case scenario, at least I'll still be casting Haste and other buffs on the rest of the party, even if I'm not damaging things myself, so I won't be completely useless.
Eventually.
But with two weapons, and needing to spend money on magical armor, headband, belt, Circlet of Persuasion (a charisma check is key for the archetype's class ability), the usual ring of protection, Handy Haversack, etc, this is a build that's going to need more money than any other PC I've ever made. So I'm likely to be doing 1d3+10 damage against things with DR 10 for at least a couple of levels before I can afford that kind of upgrade. That's really why the 18-20 crit range is key. And as I said, finding other ways to get past DR besides just hitting for a lot.
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I have never actually seen the "ultimate theoretical wizard" scrying and frying wizard.
I got to do it with my Witch on a module that Hmm was running. We were investigating cultists poisoning the town water supply, and found some of their things in a room of an Inn. Easy scry. We found them doing their thing on the other side of town.
We buff up, have everyone use Carry Companion (did I mention the other characters were all melee Hunters?) and then they all hop into my bag of holding. I turn Invisible (Spirit Patron) and then Teleport over. What followed was a gaggle of mooks regreting every life choice that lead up to that moment. We all had a great time, GM included!
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@Fromper, wizards being popular or unpopular is probably a regional thing. I've found that my wizards can be among the most difficult and/or exhausting characters to play (especially Angelo, my conjurere) due to the number of options... it is very easy to get into analysis paralysis with them.
Still, I cannot stand most of the spontaneous classes... there is always a spell I regret not taking.
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@Fromper, wizards being popular or unpopular is probably a regional thing. I've found that my wizards can be among the most difficult and/or exhausting characters to play (especially Angelo, my conjurere) due to the number of options... it is very easy to get into analysis paralysis with them.
Still, I cannot stand most of the spontaneous classes... there is always a spell I regret not taking.
Funny you should say that. Even with Quick Study and Fast Study (allowing 1 minute preparation for single spells or 1 spell being re-prepared as a full round), I still find myself fighting with the Exploiter Wizard levels on my Arcane Trickster. The Psychic, however, always seemed to have the answers I needed, though that is in large part due to the human FCB allowing me to pick up additional spells known. I suppose that a race not capable of taking that particular FCB is going to suffer a bit on spells known, but I think the relative value of that FCB has been adequately discussed in the past. For Mickey, my Psychic 20, it was approximately 368,000 gp in value at level 20 (when converted to equivalent cost for Page of Spell Knowledge), which is over half the value of his gear.
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And I'm the exact opposite. I love spontaneous classes! I'd do more sorcerers if skill points weren't so precious in PFS.
Hmm
A Human with the new Cunning feat from Villian Codex basically counts as having 4+Int skills, which I consider to be the baseline for basic adventure competency. As a bonus, you get the great FCB. And speaking of that...
The Psychic, however, always seemed to have the answers I needed, though that is in large part due to the human FCB allowing me to pick up additional spells known. I suppose that a race not capable of taking that particular FCB is going to suffer a bit on spells known, but I think the relative value of that FCB has been adequately discussed in the past. For Mickey, my Psychic 20, it was approximately 368,000 gp in value at level 20 (when converted to equivalent cost for Page of Spell Knowledge), which is over half the value of his gear.
You can also imagine it to function like Expanded Arcana as a bonus feat every two levels. Compared to HP (and now skills!) as a FCB, it's one free feat versus several.
When it comes to Spontaneous versus Prepared, I'm fine either way. What matters is that I have access to magic. The only downside is that Sponties tend to have a fair number of "no duh" spells. I have 4 active Summoners in PFS and there's a ton of overlap in spells known.
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Since the conversation is on Wizards... I rarely see other Thessalonian Specialists outside of our own meta, and I see it there because a whole mess of us decided to do a group of wayang TSs. For those of us who have gotten some serious play time in with them, they've been an absolute blast of extremes in both builds and RP (I do sloth[conjuration]).
Outside of our group, I've only seen one. And for wizards, I've seen a few others, but they're definitely less common than martial/ranged builds, but the spread is pretty even between wizard, sorcerer, alchemist, cleric, arcanist, witch, and similar classes.
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Venture-Captain, Texas—Austin
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Since the conversation is on Wizards... I rarely see other Thessalonian Specialists outside of our own meta, and I see it there because a whole mess of us decided to do a group of wayang TSs. For those of us who have gotten some serious play time in with them, they've been an absolute blast of extremes in both builds and RP (I do sloth[conjuration]).
Considering they are not sanctioned unless you *cough**cough**cough*, that might be the reason.
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Since the conversation is on Wizards... I rarely see other Thessalonian Specialists outside of our own meta, and I see it there because a whole mess of us decided to do a group of wayang TSs. For those of us who have gotten some serious play time in with them, they've been an absolute blast of extremes in both builds and RP (I do sloth[conjuration]).Considering they are not sanctioned unless you *cough**cough**cough*, that might be the reason.
I guess. I've known a couple dozen people who've gone through it, but nobody else has one. I've actually really enjoyed not having to pick spells from those two schools.
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Venture-Captain, Minnesota
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I really want to run that series here, but everyone is so focused on making new characters all the time that we can barely run anything past 3-7. :/
We had that problem for a while at Dreamers (and still do, occasionally, if our high level people decide to play a fun lower-level scenario. We need a core of 2-3 people to register right away for those high level scenarios to fly at my location.) One thing that seems to work is talking up those higher level adventures and putting a popular GM in place GMing them. Sometimes people may be scared of high level deadliness, but may be more willing to risk a higher level adventure with the right team and an experienced GM.
____
@Leg O'Lamb
Oh, and a while back I complained about not having enough female players and GMs. Then I noticed a few majority female player tables at the Source last week, and a ton of women joined us for PFS at Con of the North, too. So I have been seeing more and more female players showing up at the weekend games in Minnesota.
Here I am, publicly taking back my comment about not seeing enough women.
I just have to see if I can lure more of them to my mid-week Dreamers group! I wonder if it is the mid-week thing that is causing problems for women? I know that the time slot is not friendly to those with kids younger than my teenagers.
Hmm
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@Leg O'Lamb
Oh, and a while back I complained about not having enough female players and GMs. Then I noticed a few majority female player tables at the Source last week, and a ton of women joined us for PFS at Con of the North, too. So I have been seeing more and more female players showing up at the weekend games in Minnesota.
Here I am, publicly taking back my comment about not seeing enough women.
I just have to see if I can lure more of them to my mid-week Dreamers group! I wonder if it is the mid-week thing that is causing problems for women? I know that the time slot is not friendly to those with kids younger than my teenagers.
Hmm
nods in Hilary's direction
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Contributor
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I really want to run that series here, but everyone is so focused on making new characters all the time that we can barely run anything past 3-7. :/We had that problem for a while at Dreamers (and still do, occasionally if our high level people decide to play a fun lower-level scenario. We need a core of 2-3 people to register right away for those high level scenarios to fly at my location.) One thing that seems to work is talking up those higher level adventures and putting a popular GM in place GMing them. Sometimes people may be scared of high level deadliness, but may be more willing to risk a higher level adventure with the right team and an experienced GM.
Hmm
It's not really fear. It's "literally three-fourths of the folks would have to play pregens because their highest-level character is 4th level".
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Oh, and a while back I complained about not having enough female players and GMs. Then I noticed a few majority female player tables at the Source last week, and a ton of women joined us for PFS at Con of the North, too. So I have been seeing more and more female players showing up at the weekend games in Minnesota.
Here I am, publicly taking back my comment about not seeing enough women.
I remember being surprised by how many women there are in the hobby these days, when I returned to table top RPGs a few years ago. Back when I used to play in high school, it was a nerdy guy thing, with no girls at all. Then I left for a decade or two, and came back to a more diverse hobby, which is a good thing. My regular group back when I lived in Florida was exactly 50-50 by gender in our core group.
But the store where I currently play has almost no women at all playing PFS. The fiance of our Venture-Agent shows up when she doesn't have to work that day, but there are almost never any other women, at a place where we easily have 2-3 full tables every Sunday. From what I've seen, it looks like there are a lot more women in home games than playing at public stores like that.
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It's not really fear. It's "literally three-fourths of the folks would have to play pregens because their highest-level character is 4th level".I really want to run that series here, but everyone is so focused on making new characters all the time that we can barely run anything past 3-7. :/We had that problem for a while at Dreamers (and still do, occasionally if our high level people decide to play a fun lower-level scenario. We need a core of 2-3 people to register right away for those high level scenarios to fly at my location.) One thing that seems to work is talking up those higher level adventures and putting a popular GM in place GMing them. Sometimes people may be scared of high level deadliness, but may be more willing to risk a higher level adventure with the right team and an experienced GM.
Hmm
Our store tends to run the newest adventures as soon as they're published, and everyone signs up for whatever's on the schedule. When it's a new 7-11, this usually means 4-6 people playing pregens (at 2-3 tables), because they don't have PCs that high. In fact, when we ran one two Sundays ago, the subtier 7-8 table was one real PC and 5 pregens.
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This could be a scavenger hunt. Bonus points if you can find....
...Two seasons ago: A table without an Arcanist or Brawler...
I got into PFS right around when the ACG came out with the brawler, it was my first character. Even then I have only ever seen about 2-3 other brawlers in the wild above level 1 or 2. I really wish I saw it more around here... The class still holds a special place in my crunchy little heart.
And yeah, Ragathiel is hot (pun intended) with players. I've looked through the other lords and though lots of them were cool, but he's the only one I've seen other players follow.
I had a Thassilonian Evoker, emphasis on had...
Our Wrath is... very aggressive in his playstyle. I suspect he's going to bite it first out of all of us, and die due to including himself in an AoE (the player would want it that way, though). I have been playing mine intensely though, so I'm many levels further along than the rest of our group. I think only Wrath, Lust, Sloth, and Gluttony have gotten play time (wrath, lust, and gluttony are levels 3-5 I believe, my sloth is 8 by comparison). I think Greed might have gotten a game or two in, but he just had a kid so that's not a big surprise. I don't believe the others have played theirs yet.
