Asking primarily for the benefit of others;
Are the other vampire types (Jiang-shi, Psychic, Vetala) also allowed?
How about the 3rd party Dread Vampire? It's a +3 CR template.
I think I'm going to make a Thuvian.
My starting point is that there's a band of Neutral Shelynites that simply cannot stand to see Artists, Architects, etc go quietly into the night, so they drag them kicking and screaming into immortality. Shelyn, somewhat understandably, doesn't approve. Not sure what we make, but we are definitely embracing the full on arabian nights sumptuous robes, veils, etc.
I've reread the thread a couple of times and didn't see a summary of how we're going to be interacting with the second darkness AP, which I haven't played, so if someone wants to drop a quick summary of where the party is expected to enter in media res that'd be helpful.
Very interested, not sure what I'll make but I'll definitely submit something.
Asking primarily for the benefit of others;
Are the other vampire types (Jiang-shi, Psychic, Vetala) also allowed?
How about the 3rd party Dread Vampire? It's a +3 CR template.
Probably yes but I'll look tonight to give a definitive yes or no.
I think I'm going to make a Thuvian.
My starting point is that there's a band of Neutral Shelynites that simply cannot stand to see Artists, Architects, etc go quietly into the night, so they drag them kicking and screaming into immortality. Shelyn, somewhat understandably, doesn't approve. Not sure what we make, but we are definitely embracing the full on arabian nights sumptuous robes, veils, etc.
I've reread the thread a couple of times and didn't see a summary of how we're going to be interacting with the second darkness AP, which I haven't played, so if someone wants to drop a quick summary of where the party is expected to enter in media res that'd be helpful.
Book 4 is where the PCs begin. Prior to that they will know nothing of the plot of the first 3 books.
Very interested, not sure what I'll make but I'll definitely submit something.
Ok!
Here is my Sandman Half-Drow Young Vampire ^-^ note, he is not done this is just the Alias
Yeah, the beautiful singing child who becomes a monster is a wonderful use of bard, and sandman... and that stealth bonus.
Hunger Rules -
I confirm we will use the Hunger rules.
Asking primarily for the benefit of others;
Are the other vampire types (Jiang-shi, Psychic, Vetala) also allowed?
How about the 3rd party Dread Vampire? It's a +3 CR template.
No to Jiang-shi.
No to Psychic Vampires.
No to Vetala.
I am on the fence about Dread Vampires. If anyone is interested let me know and I'll think it through more.
Also just throwing out my alias for Murnau, the Mastermind Moroi Mesmerist. Still miles to go, but these are the bare bones of the build.
I'm mildly interested in the possibility of a Dread Vampire. I'm trying to create a "vampiric paragon" character, and the Dread Vampire promises that, enough to make it worth throwing off my alliteration game.
I am on the fence about Dread Vampires. If anyone is interested let me know and I'll think it through more.
Unless you're going to put LA buyoff in, being down 3 levels is going to make encounters a bit random, but If you just want someone to volunteer I haven't really gotten to the 'pick class levels' part yet so sure I'll toss together one.
Worst case you change your mind and I pick up level 7 8 or 9. NBD.
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For the Von Trisk family, I haven't seen a Doppelganger player race in PF. Sort of curious what that would look like, and how it would affect the starting levels, since I imagine it would be worth a CR of 1 or 2 itself.
OK. Here is what I have come up with.
This will be modeled after (loosely) the Savage Species build type from 3.0. Essentially the Doppelganger Race becomes a Class that you can level up in 3 times. I considered giving it a simple CR rating but that will reduce the player to 5th level and I don't want THAT much of a level differential.
Doppelganger Racial Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Perception, Sense Motive, Stealth.
Doppelganger 1: Detect Thoughts (At Will). Change Shape (At Will)[Including +10 to Disguise - Mimicry (Ex) & Perfect Copy (Su)]. +2 Wisdom. Darkvision 30'. 1d8 HP. Skills 2+Int Mod. +1 Reflex Save. Base speed 30'. Medium size.
Doppelganger 2: +1 Base Attack Bonus. Immune to Sleep. +2 Natural Armor Bonus. +2 Strength & Charisma. +2 Disguise & Bluff. 1d8 HP. Skills 2+Int Mod. +1 Fortitude and Will saves.
Doppelganger 3: +2 Dexterity & Constitution. Immune to Charm. Darkvision + 30'. +2 Disguise & Bluff. 1d8 HP. Skills 2+Int Mod. +1 Reflex save. Feat Dodge.
Doppelganger 4: +1 Base Attack Bonus. +2 Natural Armor Bonus. +2 Intelligence & Wisdom. 1d8 HP. Skills 2+Int Mod. +1 Fortitude and Will saves. Feat Iron Will OR Great Fortitude.
I would be happy to receive your feedback here Yorick or anyone else interested in the Von Trisk Family.
It seems there IS some interest in Dead Vampires. I'll read through the Template again tomorrow and make a final decision.
I think the level adjustments will be offset by the power of these Templates Ash.. If I am wrong and the AP shreds the party I'll just have to make adjustments to encounters.
And don't forget how annoying it is to kill a vampire. Dread Vampires are even harder. Worst-case scenario, death in combat would result in most characters retreating to their coffins. Even if we are shredded, we just send our hordes of minions against our enemies while we hang around, hidden, making the most of that +8 racial bonus to stealth.
A doppelganger player race intrigues me greatly. I've got a lot going on this week, but I think I'll work on a submission this weekend.
And don't forget how annoying it is to kill a vampire. Dread Vampires are even harder. Worst-case scenario, death in combat would result in most characters retreating to their coffins. Even if we are shredded, we just send our hordes of minions against our enemies while we hang around, hidden, making the most of that +8 racial bonus to stealth.
Ah you see that's going to be the initial problem you face, no hordes of minions at your beck and call! :-) Also, you won't have your coffins on hand either unless one of you can think of a clever way to bring them all along...
Think of the Families like the Camarilla and ANY other Vampire in Golarion like the Sabbat. The Family does not utilize hordes the same way the Sabbat utilizes shovel heads, they are more discrete in their approach like the Camarilla.
However, you hit the nail on the head! The toughness of the Dread Vampire is what gives me pause.
It seems there IS some interest in Dead Vampires. I'll read through the Template again tomorrow and make a final decision.
I think the level adjustments will be offset by the power of these Templates Ash.. If I am wrong and the AP shreds the party I'll just have to make adjustments to encounters.
Yeah I'm not worried about the party, I'm worried about dice roll style variance from just raw missing hp or damage/defenses from levels, but the only way to figure that out without spoilers is to play it so it's more of a 'hrm, that might go badly, sounds hilarious' response.
Anyways, I'm still having fun poking at 'how many craft/profession skills can I cram/justify on one vampire' stage.
If that's what gives you the most pause, remember that the GM decides what it is that permanently destroys it.
If I might make a suggestion,
You could say that the single weakness of the Dread Vampire is sunlight, or simply remove the "unique destruction" clause of the template. I know I'd be happy to play as a DV even if I could be destroyed in more than one way.
As for the coffin problem, two words: Shrink Item.
Just my 2 cp, in any case.
It seems there IS some interest in Dead Vampires. I'll read through the Template again tomorrow and make a final decision.
I think the level adjustments will be offset by the power of these Templates Ash.. If I am wrong and the AP shreds the party I'll just have to make adjustments to encounters.
Yeah I'm not worried about the party, I'm worried about dice roll style variance from just raw missing hp or damage/defenses from levels, but the only way to figure that out is to play it so it's more of a 'hrm, that might go badly, sounds hilarious' response.
Anyways, I'm still having fun poking at 'how many craft/profession skills can I cram/justify on one vampire' stage.
I am counting on the Templates bonus AC and increased ability scores to offset dice roll variance. If it does not then adjustments will have to be made!
Yes, that should be interesting :-)
Shadow, might you consider allowing the Breadth of Experience feat to be taken by vampires 100 years old or older? It's quite thematic, though I'm still deciding whether or not I'd take it.
Shadow, might you consider allowing the Breadth of Experience feat to be taken by vampires 100 years old or older? It's quite thematic, though I'm still deciding whether or not I'd take it.
Sure I'll allow it.
Blood Powers - Point of Clarification
These powers are meant to be treated like Eberron Dragonmarks in that FEATS must be spent to acquire these abilities. They are not free as you level.
Keep that in mind while constructing your builds.
=======
FYI, I never check builds until Recruitment is complete but as you can see I actively answer questions about builds.
No to Jiang-shi.
No to Psychic Vampires.
No to Vetala.
I am on the fence about Dread Vampires. If anyone is interested let me know and I'll think it through more.
Prior to recruitment opening, you were fine with allowing Psychic vampires.
Curious as to what changed your mind?
No to Jiang-shi.
No to Psychic Vampires.
No to Vetala.
I am on the fence about Dread Vampires. If anyone is interested let me know and I'll think it through more.
Prior to recruitment opening, you were fine with allowing Psychic vampires.
Curious as to what changed your mind?
Hmmm. I thought I was allowing the Psychic Class not the Psychic Vampire. I suppose if someone REALLY is dying to play a Psychic Vampire I'll look at the Template once more. But not tonight, heading to bed in 5.
Tis my fault. I wasn't clear stating that I might make Veldrin a psychic vampire.
I would like it to at least be an option, but it's not like my concept hinges on being one.
I was thinking about the dread vampire, but I get more or less the same effect with being an Azlanti and a normal vampire. Being level 5 would suck rather than 6, plus I have better story connection by staying Azlanti anyways.
Wow... Vampire Bards are EXTREMELY good Liars. I have a total of +30 to my bluff.
7 ranks + 3 from class skill, +5 Cha (20 Cha), +8 vampire, +4 Ancient Youth, and sandman adds half his Level (Rounded down) To bluff, slight of hand, and stealth which for me is +3.
I can roll a one and still convince a guard I'm simply a child, even after casting a few spells and killing someone.
If you want to push it even further with hilarity, take the Power of Suggestion trait. I stepped back a little with my lying power (my archetype of Spirit Walker trades away my bluff bonuses), but a +26 bluff bonus is nothing to sneeze at.
Actually, Shadow, might I be able to switch the +8 racial bonus from bluff to diplomacy? It's totally fine if I can't, it just fits the character a bit better.
Actually, Shadow, might I be able to switch the +8 racial bonus from bluff to diplomacy? It's totally fine if I can't, it just fits the character a bit better.
No, I want to keep the Template as is, by nature Vampires are more deceptive than they are diplomatic I think.
Dead Vampire.
I am going to say NO to Dread Vampire.
Ok, just because I'm slow :b
I could play a doppelganger CR1, get all the benefits listed under doppelganger 1, and have 8 class levels, correct? Also, are the racial skills class skills for that level, or how does that work?
Thanks for answering all these questions :)
Sorry, edit: Also, if we choose to play a Dhampir, are the heritages and accompanying attribute distributions restricted in any way?
Hey, can I get a reference of the Deities worshiped by the Families?
To help flush my character out of Course.
Ok, just because I'm slow :b
I could play a doppelganger CR1, get all the benefits listed under doppelganger 1, and have 8 class levels, correct? Also, are the racial skills class skills for that level, or how does that work?
Thanks for answering all these questions :)
Sorry, edit: Also, if we choose to play a Dhampir, are the heritages and accompanying attribute distributions restricted in any way?
Correct.
Yes, the racial skills are class skills for that level that remain class levels as you progress.
Dhampir's are HUMAN, so you cannot be a Dhampir Doppel (though I would consider it at probably a +1 CR as I am pretty liberal with builds).
The only Heritage available is the Nosferatu Heritage as I am restricting the other Vampire types.
Just pointing out there's also a dedicated Moroi heritage as well.
Does that mean that Jerusen is the only family that opens Dhampirs as options? (Sorry, now I'm getting away from my original question about the doppel. I just have so many ideas :b)
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Hey, can I get a reference of the Deities worshiped by the Families?
To help flush my character out of Course.
The Family Gods:
Urgathoa - Urgathoa
Zura - Zura
Ruithvein - Ruithvein
Sivanshin - Irori
Drakina - Nocticula
Jair - Norgorber
Mazeflesh - Zon-Kuthon
Malkistra - Zagresh “the Destroyer”
Rogarvia - Gorum
Jerunsen - Groetus
Thuvia - Set
Von Trisk - Lamashtu
Thesing - Droskar
That does not prevent a character from worshiping another God.
Just pointing out there's also a dedicated Moroi heritage as well.
Ah Forgot that one.
Moroi as well.
Does that mean that Jerusen is the only family that opens Dhampirs as options? (Sorry, now I'm getting away from my original question about the doppel. I just have so many ideas :b)
No, Dhampir are allowed in all Families but they are generally descended from Humans. So to be a Doppel Dhampir would be unusual to say the least and would require some modification.
Drakina and Malkistra generally embrace Drow (& Half-Drow) and Orcs (& Half-Orcs) though they will accept Dhampir that embrace the darkness when they are Human as those agents can often blend into society better for infiltration missions (you know going out in the sun and all!)
Yea, Veldrin worships both Nocticula and Zura, though were to have to pick just one, it would be Zura.
Last question, promise. So doppel aside, a regular dhampir could be of any family with either the moroi +2 str +2 cha -2 con spread or nosferatu +2 str +2 wis -2 con spread?
Last question, promise. So doppel aside, a regular dhampir could be of any family with either the moroi +2 str +2 cha -2 con spread or nosferatu +2 str +2 wis -2 con spread?
Correct.
A Dhampir from a "lesser" Vampiric sub-type may be looked down upon but as this will be an AP and not an intrigue Game of Houses type campaign that won't really matter (perhaps other PCs may be less than well disposed towards you but that of course is an RP element that will settle itself as Gameplay Begins).
Tis my fault. I wasn't clear stating that I might make Veldrin a psychic vampire.
I would like it to at least be an option, but it's not like my concept hinges on being one.
I'll allow the Psychic Vampires.
I would say that is enough variation to make a WIDE range of characters.
I was considering how I might be able to up my alliteration game, and I stumbled on the Munavri. I'm not sure if I'd go for them if allowed, but I thought I'd ask nonetheless.
(Murnau, Male Mastermind Moroi Munavri Mesmerist)
I was considering how I might be able to up my alliteration game, and I stumbled on the Munavri. I'm not sure if I'd go for them if allowed, but I thought I'd ask nonetheless.
(Murnau, Male Mastermind Moroi Munavri Mesmerist)
It would add a CR of +1 thereby lowering your starting level but I'd allow it. The Blood Emperor is an outside of the box type of thinker and is welcoming of many types of humans and other creatures, especially a creature of your talents!
Okay, I figured. Overall, I don't think it's worth it considering what I'd gain compared to my losses. Maybe I should just change my ethnicity to Mwangi....
Also, I'm starting work on my cohort (which means the questions are restarting). Will they perpetually be 3 levels behind the primary character, or how will level-ups be handled?
The first of those is regarding WoP. Does the human/half-elf/catfolk/half-orc/etc. FCB "add one spell known" mean I add one spell to the known list, or one word instead? I would be happy either way (though I get more utility from bonus spells).
And I'm guessing that cohorts start with standard level 6 PC wealth? Your previous phrasing suggests they start with full level 9 WBL.
Okay, I figured. Overall, I don't think it's worth it considering what I'd gain compared to my losses. Maybe I should just change my ethnicity to Mwangi....
Also, I'm starting work on my cohort (which means the questions are restarting). Will they perpetually be 3 levels behind the primary character, or how will level-ups be handled?
The first of those is regarding WoP. Does the human/half-elf/catfolk/half-orc/etc. FCB "add one spell known" mean I add one spell to the known list, or one word instead? I would be happy either way (though I get more utility from bonus spells).
And I'm guessing that cohorts start with standard level 6 PC wealth? Your previous phrasing suggests they start with full level 9 WBL.
3 levels behind.
A bonus spell.
I'll have to consider starting wealth for Cohorts and get back to you.
I've decided to draw up a moroi-blooded dhampir antipaladin from the Jerunsen family. I'll post the alias once I get the character sheet and background up.
In the meantime, I'll roll my health.
Total HP with CON 14 & FCB = 90
Okay. Would the Wicked Leader trait increase that to 2 levels behind, or should I just not take it?
Okay. Would the Wicked Leader trait increase that to 2 levels behind, or should I just not take it?
I would allow that so the Cohort is two levels behind. Remember every Feat you take is one less Feat you'll have to take the Family Blood Power Feats. ;-)
BUT, if you're character focus is on empowering Minions then it makes perfect sense to take the Wicked Leader Feat as you will want your Minions to be as powerful as possible.
Yeah. Most of my character involves controlling others and being a complete and utter control master. Nothing escapes his control. So in that regard, it does make a lot of sense.
Also, would the samsaran mystic past life alternate racial trait grant bonus spells or words?