Emp bloodline Sorcerer has you covered. Wis base and we have this:
"A sorcerer casts arcane spells drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list."
No other class has that wording, so get what spells suit your character regardless to list. I'd still use the order though for determining the list a spell-like ability is from and counts as, least for spell level
Emp bloodline Sorcerer has you covered. Wis base and we have this:
"A sorcerer casts arcane spells drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list."No other class has that wording, so get what spells suit your character regardless to list. I'd still use the order though for determining the list a spell-like ability is from and counts as, least for spell level
Honestly I don't think my DM would be ok with that, he'd probably fiat that into just using the regular list.
For now since I'm making both the Kineticist and a Monster Tactician to see which I might like better. These are the stats I'm thinking of for either (Haven't had the time to look through the kineticist, but I'm going by what you guys have implied about them)
Monster Tactician: Str 7, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 17 (+1 since we start at 4), Cha 7.
Kineticist: Str 7, Dex 17, Con 18 (+1 for level 4), Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 8.
I intend to pick up Deadly Agility to reduce MAD.
If the deadly agility is for the kineticist then you don't need it, you do CON to damage not STR.
Kineticist will give you options to expand your sight at around level 6.
For Aether, there is touchsight:
"You attach strands of aether to everything your telekinesis touches. Any time you damage a creature using your telekinetic blast, as long as that creature doesn't use a teleportation effect, you can see that creature at any distance as if using blindsight until the end of your next turn. Immediately after damaging a creature, you can accept 1 point of burn to strengthen the strands of aether attached to that creature, increasing the duration of the touchsight on that creature to 1 round per kineticist level."
For Earth, there is good old Tremorsense, but sadly that only works out the 30 ft as well.
And Air has windsight:
"You can see through mist and fog (including fog cloud and similar magic). In areas of moderate or stronger wind, you can see and hear as if you were standing at both your own position and a position a number of feet in the wind's direction equal to the wind's speed in miles per hour, potentially allowing you to see around corners and other obstacles."
Which at level 10 you can grab greater windsight:
"You can send a slight breeze in a path up to 480 feet long and then back to where you wait. This allows you to use your windsight wild talent to catch a quick glimpse and hear a tiny snippet from any location that could be reached by the wind traveling that distance (the wind's path can't pass through openings smaller than 1 inch in diameter). The breeze travels 100 feet per round, so what you see and hear is delayed by 1 round for every 50 feet of the path. If you spend at least 10 minutes to set up a steady flow of wind, you can concentrate for up to 1 minute per level to gain continuous visual and auditory information for as long as you concentrate, delayed by 1 round for every 100 feet the wind travels (since the steady flow of wind has to travel only one way). While there is no invisible sensor to detect with this ability, creatures along the path of the breeze may notice a light wind, though it may not seem out of the ordinary."
Me and my fiance are playing kineticists, and they are really fun so far and have a lot more flexibility than I first imagined.
For now since I'm making both the Kineticist and a Monster Tactician to see which I might like better. These are the stats I'm thinking of for either (Haven't had the time to look through the kineticist, but I'm going by what you guys have implied about them)
Monster Tactician: Str 7, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 17 (+1 since we start at 4), Cha 7.
Kineticist: Str 7, Dex 17, Con 18 (+1 for level 4), Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 8.
I intend to pick up Deadly Agility to reduce MAD.
Are those pre-racial adjustments? The monster tactician comes out to 15-point buy if so, 17 point buy if not. Assuming so then I'd probably go with something more like Str 14, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 15+1=16, Cha 7. It'd save the feats on Weapon Finesse and Deadly Agility - you're going to be pretty feat-starved as well as stat-starved given that you'll want Augment Summoning and its prereq, maybe further summoning feats, maybe other melee feats or even additional teamwork feats. Dex to damage does cost.
Given the low point buy there is an advantage to a kineticist. They don't need deadly agility (kinetic blade can't use it) and they only have modest feat requirements otherwise for their class. With weapon finesse, toughness and weapon focus you've got most of the feats a kineticist will ever need.
For now since I'm making both the Kineticist and a Monster Tactician to see which I might like better. These are the stats I'm thinking of for either (Haven't had the time to look through the kineticist, but I'm going by what you guys have implied about them)
Monster Tactician: Str 7, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 17 (+1 since we start at 4), Cha 7.
Kineticist: Str 7, Dex 17, Con 18 (+1 for level 4), Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 8.
I intend to pick up Deadly Agility to reduce MAD.
Are those pre-racial adjustments? The monster tactician comes out to 15-point buy if so, 17 point buy if not. Assuming so then I'd probably go with something more like Str 14, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 15+1=16, Cha 7. It'd save the feats on Weapon Finesse and Deadly Agility - you're going to be pretty feat-starved as well as stat-starved given that you'll want Augment Summoning and its prereq, maybe further summoning feats, maybe other melee feats or even additional teamwork feats. Dex to damage does cost.
Given the low point buy there is an advantage to a kineticist. They don't need deadly agility (kinetic blade can't use it) and they only have modest feat requirements otherwise for their class. With weapon finesse, toughness and weapon focus you've got most of the feats a kineticist will ever need.
No those were with the racial adjustments added in on a 20 point buy, which is weird you say it's 17 cause the calculator I used gave me an even 20. And for a question why only 13 con? Thats a bit low isn't it? Truth be told I probably am just pretty bias to dumping strength and taking deadly agility anyway. One of our players is the permanent "dump all mental stats for 18 str and 18 con" sort and can be a bit Strength elitist lol. It's fun to get dex to damage so I can ignore strength and kinda bother him about it. Nothing that messes with the table, just a little jest we do back and forth. Though I suppose it becomes a question if Strength is even needed for either build at all.
If the deadly agility is for the kineticist then you don't need it, you do CON to damage not STR.
Like with all their blast stuff?
Kineticist will give you options to expand your sight at around level 6.
For Aether, there is touchsight:
"You attach strands of aether to everything your telekinesis touches. Any time you damage a creature using your telekinetic blast, as long as that creature doesn't use a teleportation effect, you can see that creature at any distance as if using blindsight until the end of your next turn. Immediately after damaging a creature, you can accept 1 point of burn to strengthen the strands of aether attached to that creature, increasing the duration of the touchsight on that creature to 1 round per kineticist level."
For Earth, there is good old Tremorsense, but sadly that only works out the 30 ft as well.
And Air has windsight:
"You can see through mist and fog (including fog cloud and similar magic). In areas of moderate or stronger wind, you can see and hear as if you were standing at both your own position and a position a number of feet in the wind's direction equal to the wind's speed in miles per hour, potentially allowing you to see around corners and other obstacles."
Which at level 10 you can grab greater windsight:
"You can send a slight breeze in a path up to 480 feet long and then back to where you wait. This allows you to use your windsight wild talent to catch a quick glimpse and hear a tiny snippet from any location that could be reached by the wind traveling that distance (the wind's path can't pass through openings smaller than 1 inch in diameter). The breeze travels 100 feet per round, so what you see and hear is delayed by 1 round for every 50 feet of the path. If you spend at least 10 minutes to set up a steady flow of wind, you can concentrate for up to 1 minute per level to gain continuous visual and auditory information for as long as you concentrate, delayed by 1 round for every 100 feet the wind travels (since the steady flow of wind has to travel only one way). While there is no invisible sensor to detect with this ability, creatures along the path of the breeze...
That sounds pretty cool honestly. Is there something for water? Or do Kineticists get to do multiple elements?
7 Str -4
14 Dex 5
14+2 Con 5
10-2=8 Int 0
16+1=17 Wis 10
11-4=7 Cha 1
-4+5+5+10+1=17, so you have 3 points unspent. On that pattern you might add 1 more to Wis and start with an 18 and 1 to Cha to start with an 8 perhaps.
13 Con isn't great but an occasional melee type who needs one mental stat high has to make sacrifices somewhere on 15 point buy. That was pre-racial adjustments BTW. For the same sort of character but post-racial, on 20 point buy:
14 Str 5
14 Dex 5
12+2=14 Con 2
10-2=8 Int 0
15+1=16 Wis 7
11-4=7 Cha 1
5+5+2+7+1=20
I think it'd be a waste to have an inquisitor who can't fight, but then I also think it'd be a waste to have a summoner without Augment Summoning. Str-based allows both, Dex-based you have to choose one at this level.
7 Str -4
14 Dex 5
14+2 Con 5
10-2=8 Int 0
16+1=17 Wis 10
11-4=7 Cha 1
-4+5+5+10+1=17, so you have 3 points unspent. On that pattern you might add 1 more to Wis and start with an 18 and 1 to Cha to start with an 8 perhaps.13 Con isn't great but an occasional melee type who needs one mental stat high has to make sacrifices somewhere on 15 point buy. That was pre-racial adjustments BTW. For the same sort of character but post-racial, on 20 point buy:
14 Str 5
14 Dex 5
12+2=14 Con 2
10-2=8 Int 0
15+1=16 Wis 7
11-4=7 Cha 1
5+5+2+7+1=20I think it'd be a waste to have an inquisitor who can't fight, but then I also think it'd be a waste to have a summoner without Augment Summoning. Str-based allows both, Dex-based you have to choose one at this level.
I'll admit you have a point. I suppose I can curb my irrational preference of doing all I can to make strength an unneeded stat.
Summon lantern archons if you want to suggest strength is truly unnecessary. Not until next level admittedly.
BTW, kineticists do get to do multiple elements but with a significant delay on the second and later ones. At 7th level you can get another element but any infusions or wild talents taken have to be as if you were 4 levels lower. So if you took air first you could get windsight at 6th, greater windsight at 10th, but if you took water first you'd have to wait until 10th for windsight, 14th for greater windsight.
Barbarian.
Spell Resistance, Swim Speed, Blindsight, a Racial bonus to Con, and a penalty to the two dump stats.
This thing was literally made for Barbarian.
As I said in my opening post "The issue I'm having is that I cannot for the life of me think of a decent class for it beyond Barbarian or another 'dumb' style bruiser.". Fighters and Barbarian's are incredibly boring and one dimensional to me. Really any "do nothing but sit and full attack each round" class bores me almost to tears most games. Plus they have next to 0 out of combat usage with such low mental scores.
Summon lantern archons if you want to suggest strength is truly unnecessary. Not until next level admittedly.
BTW, kineticists do get to do multiple elements but with a significant delay on the second and later ones. At 7th level you can get another element but any infusions or wild talents taken have to be as if you were 4 levels lower. So if you took air first you could get windsight at 6th, greater windsight at 10th, but if you took water first you'd have to wait until 10th for windsight, 14th for greater windsight.
No I know that you're more correct on it than my preference is, so I'll probably end up having some strength. The dex preference just stems from the friendly jesting and just liking dex based skill usage...but I can't lie you're right about the augment summoning bit.
And aaah, I'll probably just stay a single element then when I get to that one. That's an awful big delay.
That sounds pretty cool honestly. Is there something for water? Or do Kineticists get to do multiple elements?
You get a second element at level 7 (and a third at level 15) but your access to the utility powers for your secondary and tertiary element is slowed by 4 levels, so you'd have to wait to 10th level to get touchsight or windsight. Normally people don't invest in touchsight because it competes with slots with the very best aether power (you can be invisible whenever you want).
You could go aether first, since the "Spying Touchsight" power from Ultimate Intrigue seems perfect:
You attach a sticky strand of invisible aether to a target and then project your senses along the strand, allowing you to spy on that target. Attaching the strand of aether requires a ranged touch attack, but if you activate this ability while your target is under the effect of your touchsight, you can use the strands from your touchsight instead. Once you have activated spying touchsight, you can concentrate on it to spy on your target with any of your five senses (though your own body no longer benefits from the senses you project); the strand lasts as long you concentrate, though you can switch which senses you are projecting each round.
I would imagine the prospect of being able to do that would be fascinating to people whose senses normally stop at 30'.
My campaign has 3 'ooze' races. The one most closely resembling a normal 'race' is much like these, but is best described as a boneless envelope of viscous matter. They are more acidic/caustic, Earth aligned and Horta-inspired. They suffer from bull rushes, etc due to lacking bones/internal structure and can squeeze into small spaces. Stat-wise, they are weak and clumsy, hard to kill and mentally shorted. Their main attack is a acidic touch via grapple. Their alignment is chaotic hungry.
I may have to add this race to the Type once ya'll hammer on it a bit more.
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Emp bloodline Sorcerer has you covered. Wis base and we have this:
"A sorcerer casts arcane spells drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list."No other class has that wording, so get what spells suit your character regardless to list. I'd still use the order though for determining the list a spell-like ability is from and counts as, least for spell level
I am 99% sure that line refers to the special bloodline spells (not all of which are on the sorc/wiz list) rather than giving sorcerers the ability to cherry-pick whatever spells they want from any list.
I am 99% sure that line refers to the special bloodline spells (not all of which are on the sorc/wiz list) rather than giving sorcerers the ability to cherry-pick whatever spells they want from any list.Emp bloodline Sorcerer has you covered. Wis base and we have this:
"A sorcerer casts arcane spells drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list."No other class has that wording, so get what spells suit your character regardless to list. I'd still use the order though for determining the list a spell-like ability is from and counts as, least for spell level
I thought that at first too, but;
"A cleric casts divine spells which are drawn from the cleric spell list."
"A druid casts divine spells, which are drawn from the druid spell list."
"An oracle casts divine spells drawn from the cleric spell lists."
"A psychic casts psychic spells drawn from the psychic class's spell list."
They all get spells from other lists given their class features (though druid has a choice to do so or not). Sorcerers have unique wording, thus there must be some significance.
I am 99% sure that line refers to the special bloodline spells (not all of which are on the sorc/wiz list) rather than giving sorcerers the ability to cherry-pick whatever spells they want from any list.Emp bloodline Sorcerer has you covered. Wis base and we have this:
"A sorcerer casts arcane spells drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list."No other class has that wording, so get what spells suit your character regardless to list. I'd still use the order though for determining the list a spell-like ability is from and counts as, least for spell level
I thought that at first too, but;
"A cleric casts divine spells which are drawn from the cleric spell list."
"A druid casts divine spells, which are drawn from the druid spell list."
"An oracle casts divine spells drawn from the cleric spell lists."
"A psychic casts psychic spells drawn from the psychic class's spell list."They all get spells from other lists given their class features (though druid has a choice to do so or not). Sorcerers have unique wording, thus there must be some significance.
Yeaaaaaah he's not gonna go for that.
Water has "Watersense", which is sort of a weaker option than tremorsense in that it only functions in bodies of water. It does get to ignore miss chance from concealment though. Still limited to 30 ft.
I am 99% sure that line refers to the special bloodline spells (not all of which are on the sorc/wiz list) rather than giving sorcerers the ability to cherry-pick whatever spells they want from any list.Emp bloodline Sorcerer has you covered. Wis base and we have this:
"A sorcerer casts arcane spells drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list."No other class has that wording, so get what spells suit your character regardless to list. I'd still use the order though for determining the list a spell-like ability is from and counts as, least for spell level
I thought that at first too, but;
"A cleric casts divine spells which are drawn from the cleric spell list."
"A druid casts divine spells, which are drawn from the druid spell list."
"An oracle casts divine spells drawn from the cleric spell lists."
"A psychic casts psychic spells drawn from the psychic class's spell list."They all get spells from other lists given their class features (though druid has a choice to do so or not). Sorcerers have unique wording, thus there must be some significance.
Xuldarinar, are you actually claiming that my Efreeti sorcerer can run off and get a witch-only spell the next time she levels up? Just because her spells come "primarily" from the wiz/sorc list? Or is this some special benefit that you think Empyreal sorcerers have because they're Wisdom-based?
Naoki00, I'm with you: don't try your GM's patience with this line of reasoning.
I am 99% sure that line refers to the special bloodline spells (not all of which are on the sorc/wiz list) rather than giving sorcerers the ability to cherry-pick whatever spells they want from any list.Emp bloodline Sorcerer has you covered. Wis base and we have this:
"A sorcerer casts arcane spells drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list."No other class has that wording, so get what spells suit your character regardless to list. I'd still use the order though for determining the list a spell-like ability is from and counts as, least for spell level
I thought that at first too, but;
"A cleric casts divine spells which are drawn from the cleric spell list."
"A druid casts divine spells, which are drawn from the druid spell list."
"An oracle casts divine spells drawn from the cleric spell lists."
"A psychic casts psychic spells drawn from the psychic class's spell list."They all get spells from other lists given their class features (though druid has a choice to do so or not). Sorcerers have unique wording, thus there must be some significance.
Xuldarinar, are you actually claiming that my Efreeti sorcerer can run off and get a witch-only spell the next time she levels up? Just because her spells come "primarily" from the wiz/sorc list? Or is this some special benefit that you think Empyreal sorcerers have because they're Wisdom-based?
Naoki00, I'm with you: don't try your GM's patience with this line of reasoning.
I am claiming that your Efreeti sorcerer could take a witch only spell the next time she levels up, given that "These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of through study."
Wow. I've never paid attention to that line. Of course, the Sorc/Wiz list is so long, I've never been all that eager for other spells.
Caution: I'm still going to say that they have to be arcane spells, no matter which arcane list they come from. I'm also thinking that my GM will want me to buy a scroll to demonstrate "study." Maybe pay a wizard tuition?
Wow. I've never paid attention to that line. Of course, the Sorc/Wiz list is so long, I've never been all that eager for other spells.
Caution: I'm still going to say that they have to be arcane spells, no matter which arcane list they come from. I'm also thinking that my GM will want me to buy a scroll to demonstrate "study." Maybe pay a wizard tuition?
That makes sense. The line isn't all that clear and I am unfamiliar with any formal process stated anywhere so if thats the approach one wants to take it is certainly warranted. Something should be done to demonstrate study. I'd say using the Wizard's rules for adding spells to their spellbook make sense, though something in place of copying spells down but with the same cost perhaps.
Still, among the arcane we have;
Bard, Bloodrager, Magus, Sorcerer/Wizard, and Witch.
I'd say for determining spell level, I'd consider this order; Sorcerer/Wizard, Witch, Bard, Summoner, Bloodrager, Magus. But since some of those aren't in the official priority list, then there is room for interpretation and implementation.
Wow. I've never paid attention to that line. Of course, the Sorc/Wiz list is so long, I've never been all that eager for other spells.
Caution: I'm still going to say that they have to be arcane spells, no matter which arcane list they come from. I'm also thinking that my GM will want me to buy a scroll to demonstrate "study." Maybe pay a wizard tuition?
That makes sense. The line isn't all that clear and I am unfamiliar with any formal process stated anywhere so if thats the approach one wants to take it is certainly warranted. Something should be done to demonstrate study. I'd say using the Wizard's rules for adding spells to their spellbook make sense, though something in place of copying spells down but with the same cost perhaps.
Still, among the arcane we have;
Bard, Bloodrager, Magus, Sorcerer/Wizard, and Witch.
I'd say for determining spell level, I'd consider this order; Sorcerer/Wizard, Witch, Bard, Summoner, Bloodrager, Magus. But since some of those aren't in the official priority list, then there is room for interpretation and implementation.
In the end I don't think this will be much of an issue as of the moment, however this is an interesting idea for the race later. I wasn't really aware of this bloodline at all. What are some other potential classes to use with it if anyone has any other ideas? I've finished the Monster Tactician and am reading up on the Kineticist.
I can also say that aside from myself, I know the party involves a Barbarian, Cleric, Alchemist, and an Unarmed Fighter.
I will say that the base Celestial bloodline (the one that Empyreal modifies) is weak like a lot of bloodlines. (Not so much if you didn't have a cleric in the party, but you do.) Mind you, I'm playing a half-orc Efreeti sorceress now & enjoying it, but it's a matter of concept over power. And sure, I can look at ways to make her more effective at BURNING things. It's fun!
However, you don't seem to have a concept in mind, which troubles me.
You wanted an oozy character. Well, what kind of oozing do you want to do? I mean, you don't like the idea of getting into melee -- even if you're primarily making combat maneuvers like grapples. (That may be what your GM was envisioning, btw, when he wrote the race.) All right, we'll move on. What would you like to do well because you're oozy?
Further shapeshifting (w/ spells or as exceptional abilities)? Chameleon-style sneaking? Having defenses (aka "it just passed right through me, harmlessly")? Having other affinities to water? Maybe flinging bits of yourself that do damage (if that's a viable fluff to put on Kineticist)?
Sure, there's a point to not fighting your racial abilities when you pick a class. But this is your chance to play a super-fun character. Maybe you don't need the most powerful class that suits the race, just the most flavorful one (for you).
~~~~~
And yet... there is also a point to augmenting the party.
Do you know what kind of cleric you'll have? I've seen players assume that clerics are support characters, and I've seen one who just assumes that a cleric is primarily a front-line melee fighter. Based on comments on the boards, that's probably a more popular view than I knew, for all that the one character's feat selections & whatnot astounded me. The point is, if you've got three melee fighters now, you definitely would want to stay at range. {EtA: I really, really hope your GM relents on the blind. But if blind, you can do ranged combat from 10-30 feet away.}
I could see a fabulous thievish type with this race, despite the Int setback. Just in terms of color, I mean. When you evade an area effect, you let it pass harmlessly through you. When you pick a lock & succeed, it's because you oozed your fingers into it to turn the tumblers. When you move stealthily, you're blending into the background. Mind you, you'll be using the class feature for Evasion, and the GM will likely still demand lockpicking tools, and if you want a bonus on Disable Device or Stealth you'll have to look for a trait or feat -- the mechanics won't change. But you can color it how you want. And this party may need a thievish type most of all.
Some classes to look at if you like the idea: unchained Rogue, Slayer, Trapper Ranger, and a Rogue/Sorcerer multiclass aiming at Arcane Trickster. I've been looking at Slayer for a ranged thief, and if you take the trapfinding & maybe trapspotter talents, it's got a lot of advantages over the chained Rogue and I think the unchained one, too. I recommend you give it a looksee if you're willing to give up magic. Rangers get so little spellcasting that it might be worth looking at the Trapper archetype (or Infiltrator linked earlier), knowing that if you don't pick the right spells you can shrug it off; you'll still have lots to do. Finally, I happen to know that Arcane Trickster is a fun prestige class to play if you like spontaneous casters but need a thief. Ooooh, sneaky spells. And do you want sneak attack damage at range? Start by casting your own Greater Invisibility -- and then get it as a class feature that you can fluff as an ooze ability.
I hope this helps!
I will say that the base Celestial bloodline (the one that Empyreal modifies) is weak like a lot of bloodlines. (Not so much if you didn't have a cleric in the party, but you do.) Mind you, I'm playing a half-orc Efreeti sorceress now & enjoying it, but it's a matter of concept over power. And sure, I can look at ways to make her more effective at BURNING things. It's fun!
However, you don't seem to have a concept in mind, which troubles me.
You wanted an oozy character. Well, what kind of oozing do you want to do? I mean, you don't like the idea of getting into melee -- even if you're primarily making combat maneuvers like grapples. (That may be what your GM was envisioning, btw, when he wrote the race.) All right, we'll move on. What would you like to do well because you're oozy?
Further shapeshifting (w/ spells or as exceptional abilities)? Chameleon-style sneaking? Having defenses (aka "it just passed right through me, harmlessly")? Having other affinities to water? Maybe flinging bits of yourself that do damage (if that's a viable fluff to put on Kineticist)?
Sure, there's a point to not fighting your racial abilities when you pick a class. But this is your chance to play a super-fun character. Maybe you don't need the most powerful class that suits the race, just the most flavorful one (for you).
~~~~~
And yet... there is also a point to augmenting the party.
Do you know what kind of cleric you'll have? I've seen players assume that clerics are support characters, and I've seen one who just assumes that a cleric is primarily a front-line melee fighter. Based on comments on the boards, that's probably a more popular view than I knew, for all that the one character's feat selections & whatnot astounded me. The point is, if you've got three melee fighters now, you definitely would want to stay at range. {EtA: I really, really hope your GM relents on the blind. But if blind, you can do...
Actually this is a ton of help visualizing some of the cool things to try out lol.
Before I settle everything though I wanted to ask what everyones thoughts on the Psionics and Path of War material for such a race might be. I'm not necessarily opposed to melee and all that so much as it is that I don't like the very boring game play of full attacking every round.
I bring up Path of War because someone mentioned grappling being an option (and indeed a very ooze like thing to do), and I found this little gem of a stance that got me wondering if it could be worth investing in:
Steel Coils
Discipline: Steel Serpent (Stance); Level: 3
Prerequisite(s): One Steel Serpent Maneuver
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
DESCRIPTION
In this stance, the movements and motions of the disciple become more sinuous and deliberate, as if he were a serpent coiled to strike. While in this stance, the disciple may make grapple attempts without provoking attacks of opportunity, and if the disciple successfully grapples a foe, he may constrict his opponent to inflict 4d6 + his Strength modifier in damage. The manner in which he must carry himself in this stance, muscles taught and stiffened, grants him some degree of protection, adding a +4 bonus to his natural armor.
Path of War is a real step up for martial characters in versatility and IMO (though this is disputed) in power. If it's available, then yes, you could make a very nice Stalker concentrating on grappling & Broken Blade and Steel Serpent maneuvers. I don't know any way for them to see further than 30' if you otherwise lack the ability though.
A Psychic Warrior or Vitalist is a wis-based caster with access to the first level Synesthete power. With that power you can see for 10 min/level. Either looks effective, though only the psychic warrior makes for a naturally good grappler. Also there's a Pathwalker archetype for the psychic warrior which gets Path of War maneuvers, if you joined the Chefs of the Ordre des Repas Exotiques or some equivalent martial tradition in your world you could use that for Steel Serpent.
Path of War is a real step up for martial characters in versatility and IMO (though this is disputed) in power. If it's available, then yes, you could make a very nice Stalker concentrating on grappling & Broken Blade and Steel Serpent maneuvers. I don't know any way for them to see further than 30' if you otherwise lack the ability though.
A Psychic Warrior or Vitalist is a wis-based caster with access to the first level Synesthete power. With that power you can see for 10 min/level. Either looks effective, though only the psychic warrior makes for a naturally good grappler. Also there's a Pathwalker archetype for the psychic warrior which gets Path of War maneuvers, if you joined the Chefs of the Ordre des Repas Exotiques or some equivalent martial tradition in your world you could use that for Steel Serpent.
You know you just gave me the image of an ooze person with an acidproof chef's hat and a butcher's knife wrapped around a goblin and saying "Come friends, we eat the tiny tasty yes?" while seasoning it with salt lol.
You know you just gave me the image of an ooze person with an acidproof chef's hat and a butcher's knife wrapped around a goblin and saying "Come friends, we eat the tiny tasty yes?" while seasoning it with salt lol.
Ah, but what do you do if a player says yes? I suppose it depends if cannibalism is 'eating the same species as you' or 'eating sentients'. It might pay to have an intelligence higher than 6 so as to have some idea about these ethical questions ...
Naoki00, LOL: I hope you don't need a Good alignment!
I will not waste the beasts I hunt.
Your friends could end up dreading what they'll find on their plates after the next dungeon crawl! (But at least the Giant Fleacakes will be tasty... um...)
I'm glad to have been of help in visualizing alternatives. (I'm afraid I don't know the Dreamscarred material, however.)
I do still have a concern of four or more melee types trying to get in to hit on the big baddie, although I suppose a grappler moves into the baddie's square, opening up a spot for a friend. (And potentially reduces AC, which the bruisers in the party will enjoy!)
Do you indeed know what kind of cleric will be in the party?
You know you just gave me the image of an ooze person with an acidproof chef's hat and a butcher's knife wrapped around a goblin and saying "Come friends, we eat the tiny tasty yes?" while seasoning it with salt lol.
I would have to imagine that ooze people are hesitant to use salt (at least in its mineral form), because it draws moisture through membranes.
You have to marinate the goblin instead...
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I do still have a concern of four or more melee types trying to get in to hit on the big baddie, although I suppose a grappler moves into the baddie's square, opening up a spot for a friend.
A grappler does not move into the baddie's square.
If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails).
Play a hunter, at level 4 they can look through their pet's eyes as a swift action that lasts til they spend a free action. The only downside is that they are blinded while doing so, so sad. The hunter doesn't really NEED int or cha, being a 6+ skill class whose only class ability that hinges off it is empathy.
Race doesn't get a bonus to any key hunter stats so you're not going to break the bell curve too soon but its not super necessary for that class either.
I am 99% sure that line refers to the special bloodline spells (not all of which are on the sorc/wiz list) rather than giving sorcerers the ability to cherry-pick whatever spells they want from any list.Emp bloodline Sorcerer has you covered. Wis base and we have this:
"A sorcerer casts arcane spells drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list."No other class has that wording, so get what spells suit your character regardless to list. I'd still use the order though for determining the list a spell-like ability is from and counts as, least for spell level
I thought that at first too, but;
"A cleric casts divine spells which are drawn from the cleric spell list."
"A druid casts divine spells, which are drawn from the druid spell list."
"An oracle casts divine spells drawn from the cleric spell lists."
"A psychic casts psychic spells drawn from the psychic class's spell list."They all get spells from other lists given their class features (though druid has a choice to do so or not). Sorcerers have unique wording, thus there must be some significance.
That's an inference not a stated fact. As inferences go, it requires a degree of twisting to what is actually said to infer it.
Personally, I would put it down to sloppy editing such as that which has plagued Paizo products all along (just look at the reams and reams of faqs - which really only touch the surface of whats at issue). From a logical viewpoint, it would boost Sorcerors from "Just another Spellcaster" to "Uber class of all time". It's way too powerful and any GM worth their salt would shoot it down automatically. There is simply no suggestion anywhere, by example or by wording, that a sorcerer can get his base spells from anywhere other than the Sorceror/Wizard Spell list. After all, the clue is in the name.
If you want spells from another list, other than those gained from your bloodline, play a Samsaran.
My apologies if this is threadjacking, if you want to debate this further, start a new thread.
Personally, I would put it down to sloppy editing such as that which has plagued Paizo products all along (just look at the reams and reams of faqs - which really only touch the surface of whats at issue). From a logical viewpoint, it would boost Sorcerors from "Just another Spellcaster" to "Uber class of all time". It's way too powerful and any GM worth their salt would shoot it down automatically. There is simply no suggestion anywhere, by example or by wording, that a sorcerer can get his base spells from anywhere other than the Sorceror/Wizard Spell list. After all, the clue is in the name.
If you want spells from another list, other than those gained from your bloodline, play a Samsaran.
My apologies if this is threadjacking, if you want to debate this further, start a new thread.
Well, I do want to debate this further. It's quite gotten my attention, for all that I started out agreeing with you before I actually read the fffing rulebook. But yes, I suppose this is threadjacking, so I started a new thread.
See some of you there!
To the OP:
Whatever did you end up doing?