Need class advice - first PF game in three years.


Advice


So I've been asked to join a Pathfinder group, and I'm in need of some advice since my PF knowledge is very rusty.

The group is level 8, and they're playing Iron Gods. There's currently 5 members, but one is leaving and I'm taking his spot. I get the idea that the group isn't terribly optimized, nor do they use wands for healing.

They're (not so) subtly pushing me towards a combat healer of some kind, since the guy I'm replacing is an Oradin. The other members are a Wizard, Investigator, Rogue, and "beater" (no one gave me a firm class on this).

My problem is that I'm not really excited about any of the Divine classes, and I really don't want to be a generic Healbot cleric.

Warpriest looks interesting, but 99% of the Blessings are hot garbage. Inquisitor would be my first choice, but I worry about not having good access to status removal like a Cleric.

What's a good class for general healing that can still be a front line combat character? Am I missing something with Warpriest or Inquisitor? Should I be looking at a Paladin (I generally don't like the alignment restrictions).

Any help is appreciated. Creation is 20 PB and all first party Paizo classes and races are allowed.

Grand Lodge

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Christopher,

If you don't want to play a divine class, then don't. This is the time where you ask the GM, "Hey, can you drop healing wands so that we can do the healing out of combat? I have no inspiration for a healing character." Do this now. The time that he's most likely to change his mind is now, when he needs a new guy.

__

That said... Oracles can be just about anything. Seriously, between the mysteries, archetypes, revelations and curses... it's a plastic class that you can build just about anything out of! Warpriests and Inquisitors are both huge combat monsters depending on how you build them. I've seen amazing examples of both in PFS. If you like bards, a fighty evangelist cleric could be fun if you use reach tactics with a spear.

Here's another suggestion, a bit off the beaten path, but it may work for your party. It looks like you have a bunch of dex-based people. Have you thought about being an Urban Skald who boosts dex when he sings?

Skalds get Spell Kenning:

Spell Kenning (Su): At 5th level, a skald is learned in the magic of other spellcasters, and can use his own magic to duplicate those classes’ spells. Once per day, a skald can cast any spell on the bard, cleric, or sorcerer/wizard spell list as if it were one of his skald spells known, expending a skald spell slot of the same spell level to cast the desired spell. Casting a spell with spell kenning always has a minimum casting time of 1 full round, regardless of the casting time of the spell.

At 11th level, a skald can use this ability twice per day. At 17th level, he can use this ability three times per day.

Spell Kenning is great for emergencies and condition removal, and you wouldn't have to be the healbot to help your party out. If one the other hand, multiple people in your group are strength-based, go with a normal skald.

Hmm

The Exchange

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Play something you like. Fun is priority.
Paladin is great. Mercies, lay on hands, lesser resteration, great defenses and damage.

Cleric is great.
Channels, spontanious heals, best status removal. Can be built for damage, tricks, buffs...

bard/skald seems good with 3 physical characters. Some healing and removal. Saving finale is amazing.

Medium is great.
Champion spirit main but If people need status removal channel the hierophant spirit the next day. The mock gladiator trait lets you melee fine as a hierophant. If you are good at planning the spirit dancer archetype looks awesome. A ranged medium works well too and at 8th lvl you can have the archery feats.


Druid class can fill in as a substitute healer and still function very effectively as a combatant with wild shape,and of course you know you don't have to play a Cleric as a Healbot, you can take that class many different ways, Paladin has some limited healing ability and will shine in combat, but i agree that you shouldn't have to be forced into any role and that talking to your GM is your best bet.


Look at an Oracle of Battle or Metal. They're spontaneous divine casters with full access to the cleric list of spells, with mysteries that make them meant to be front-line melee fighters. Get access to heavy armor and all martial weapons at level 1 with revalation choice, bonus spells to buff melee combat (battle gets enlarge person at level 2 I think). As a bonus, they get all cure spells for free at level. Your spell list will be smaller than a cleric by a mile, but you can take the necessary Restoration spells, get cures for free, then use your other slots to buff combat (magic weapon, divine favor, etc)

I haven't played mine quite yet, but built a backup Half Orc Barbarian 1 Metal Oracle 7 for a campaign I'm likely to die in.

It can move 50 ft in medium armor and because of Half Orc racials and Str/Cha focus, has a sky-high intimidate and uses the Power Attack, Hurtful, Cornugun Smash line with a Cruel weapon.


Current Build on Barb1/Oracle of Metal7:
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14
(Can optimize more if you don't mind dumping intel, but I don't like to)

Sacred tattoo w/ Fate's Favored trait for +2 all saves
Intimidating
Darkvision

Weapon/Armor:
+1 Cruel Falchion
+2 Mithril Full Plate

Revalations: Skill at Arms (Martial Proficiency + Heavy Armor), Armor Mastery (full move speed in medium metal armor), Dance of the Blades (+10 Move Speed)

Feats:
1. Power Attack
3. Hurtful
5. Intimidating Prowess
7. Cornugun Smash

Spells:
1. Cure Light Wounds, Lead Blades, Divine Favor, Shield of Faith, Weapon Wand, Obscuring Mist
2. Cure Mod Wounds, Heat Metal, Resist Energy, Lesser Restoration, Eagle's Splendor
3. Cure Serious Wounds, Magic Vestment, Prayer, Keen Edge

Silver Crusade

The most important thing is to build something you feel excited to play. That being said, a human Battle Oracle would be a solid choice, perhaps using a reach weapon such as a Lucerne Hammer. Just remember that Strength is your primary stat, not Charisma.

Silver Crusade

What about a Shaman?

They are new, OP, and they are divine, but they are very very weird. The number of options is absurd, frankly so I cannot advise a particular build, but even though they are divine, they don't have to be particularly religious or bible-thumping. They get the status removal spells the party needs, but it's a secondary concern and you can use the scrolls and wands.

You can make them a combat beast with battle and Oracle things, but you might want to stand back with the Wizard and throw out your esoteric nukes with him.

It's a bit metagamey, but if you are starting at 8th level you are over the early slog for 9th level casters so I'd prefer to play a full caster in your position. Not sure how combat oriented you want to be either - at this point your number of spells are sufficient that you can cast every round for the daily encounters.

The Oracle suggestions ITT are good too, you can get tooled up and do the drudgery of status removal. Honestly though, OP - casting gets more important by 8th level, think about what would be more fun for you


Mesmerist is not a very good healer, but they have a pretty nice emergency heal- if someone drops below 0, you can trigger the implanted trick for free as about a Cure Moderate Wounds. I think at that level, you can implant tricks in three people at once. Each person can pick from the many options you know, and then it's not your fault if they pick the wrong one.

They're very good at removing a lot of temporary statuses, too.


I would second the idea of a Shaman. I'm playing a Shaman with the Battle spirit and Speaker for the Past archetype through Rise of the Runelords, and he has been a great addition to the group, and a lot of fun to play.

You manage to get enough spells to allow for status condition removal when needed, while also doing some buffing and problem-solving. The revelations from the archetype can also be great. Between spells, hexes and revelations, my character always seems to have lots to contribute. Beyond that, he is quite a credible combatant, largely using reach weapon tactics.

If you're interested, I can give some more specific pointers on how you might build a character out. If you prefer to avoid melee, there are also lots of ways to build a very versatile casting-focused Shaman.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

+1 to all who said "play what you want."

With 4 other folks on the team all playing what they wish, no reason why you should be the odd man out.

What are the other builds/roles of the party? 8th level means (if allowed) one of the PCs could have spent 1 feat for leadership and get a token healer that way. Or even you could if you really need one.

Otherwise wands for out of combat and hope no one needs emergency healing in combat.

Or play a class that can say Summon a healer?

Alternatively Warpriest, Inquisitor, Shaman, Pally, even Cleric can all front line with the right build.

I find when I play divines though they are very pro-offense minded. If you scout out, lock down and take out the opposition before they get to act (or at best the few survivors go once after your party goes twice), then no one really needs in combat healing.


I'll probably talk to the GM. Of the divine classes, the only things that excite me are the Inquisitor and maybe a weird cleric of Yog-sothoth that spends his time mumbling about finding keys and the like.

I just can't seem to find a divine class that I want to play AND I feel like fits into the AP thematically. I'd much rather be playing an Android Alchemist (Grenadier) or a Techslinger (as bad as Gunslingers can be, I love the class).

As for their roles, I'm not 100% sure...but I get the idea they're all just kind of doing whatever and not giving any mind to specific roles or optimizing. The Investigator is a skill-monkey, I know that much. I'm 99% certain no one has taken leadership or gotten cohorts of any kind.


kainblackheart wrote:
Druid class can fill in as a substitute healer and still function very effectively as a combatant with wild shape.

Though do pick up a potion of Remove Blindness. It's one of the things a druid can't do. It always surprises me how permanently blinding somebody is just a 2nd level spell.


Clerics can be built combat focused and work really well at that. There are great domains for a melee combat class. Then you have some buff spell you cast if you like, and you have the access to the status removal.

for Warpriest, the blessings are a minor boon, not a main draw like domains. Plus check out the arsenal chaplain archetype for it.


Philo Pharynx wrote:
kainblackheart wrote:
Druid class can fill in as a substitute healer and still function very effectively as a combatant with wild shape.
Though do pick up a potion of Remove Blindness. It's one of the things a druid can't do. It always surprises me how permanently blinding somebody is just a 2nd level spell.

A druid can remove Blindness the spell via Dispel Magic (but so can the Wizard, and earlier). Save the potion for other causes of blindness or if your dispels fail.


The Iron Gods group I'm GMing for has an Android Alchemist (Chirurgeon) as their healer. They hit rough patches every now and then but that's offset by their healer also being a decent damage dealer when the bombs come out. The party's rogue took a 1 level dip in alchemist and now uses his mutagen since he never did.


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No one mentioned Spiritualist so I will.

They have all the divine spells, a big meaty ghost to stand in the frontlines, and a lot of abilities that coudl be neat.


I agree with the play what you want guys
We can probably find a way to get cure light wounds for you as most things and you can just use a wand from their and hope that the DM drops less status effects since the party has no way to easily deal with them. Also Oracles aren't ideal for status removal anyway, they only have so many spells filling them with situational status removal isn't ideal.


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Christopher Lee wrote:
Am I missing something with Warpriest

You are missing something about Warpriest. You can build a Warpriest Character that is a powerful healer and is just as powerful a melee character as you can get.

Christopher Lee wrote:
99% of the Blessings are hot garbage.

There are a lot of Blessings I like, but I'm not super excited about the any of them. Sacred Weapon and Fervor are another matter.

Fervor gives you extra Healing, and it lets you Spontaneously cast any spell you have prepared as a Swift Action without comsuming the spell.

If you use 2 Kukris with a Threat Range of 18-20, they will do Sacred Weapon Damage, not Kukri Damage. 1d6 for starters. When you get to where you can take Improved Crit, your Kukri's will be doing 1d8: 2 longswords with Rapier Critting. Be a Divine Commander and take Seize the Moment and Outflank, and you and your Allies will start getting Attacks of Opportunity whenever any of you Crit.

I like the idea of a Natural Attack Warpriest. Be a Tengu with Claws. Your Natural Attacks will all do Sacred Weapon Damage every time you take Weapon Focus for one of them.

Take Craft Wondrous Item. Make yourself a Helm of the Mammoth Lord and give yourself a Gore Attack. Make yourself a Tentacle Cloak and get 2 Tentacle Attacks. Now you have 6 Attacks/round.

Take a level in White Haired Witch and give yourself a Hair Attack. Take a level in Ranger and acquire a Wand of Strong Jaw, so all those Natural Attacks that are doing Sacred Weapon Damage will do damage as if you were 2 sizes bigger. Take a 2nd level in Ranger, and take Precise Shot. Carry a Bow which you won't even need to put down when you are in melee: taking one hand off a 2 handed weapon to perform some other kind of action is a Free Action. Get a Wand of Gravity Bow, and your arrows will do 2d6.

Take a level in Monk, and get an Unarmed Strike on top of your other Natural Attacks. Take 2 Weapon, and get another. Now you have 8 attacks/round.

Your Hair and Tentacles allow you to make Free Grapple Attacks. Wear Armor with Armor Spikes and you do 1d6 Damage with every successful Grapple Attack. Take Hamatula Strike, and your Piercing Attacks--Gore and Bite--also get that free Grapple Attack. Make that level in Monk a level in Master of Many Styles, make your Bonus Feat Snake Style, and your Unarmed Strikes become Piercing and also get that Free Grapple. Take Feral Combat Training for your Claws, and your Claws become pericing, too. So, 16 attacks/round in the end, all doing Warpriest Sacred Weapon Damage.


On further review, I'm kind of in love with the Warpriest. Seriously considering making one who worships Yog-sothoth that makes ominous, cryptic statements about the stars bringing him to the party.

Might not have the best Blessings, but I like the flavor.

I'll take the advice from all of you and make him awesome.


if you take the arsenal chaplain you get a decent blessing and fighter's weapon training


Chess Pwn wrote:
if you take the arsenal chaplain you get a decent blessing and fighter's weapon training

But Arsenal Chaplains' Sacred Weapons never rise above 1d6.

The Weapons Training kind of offsets that.

That's an alternative. But that is a stark choice: better blessings at the cost of diminishing Sacred Weapon.

And of course the character I'm proposing is freakishly complex with it's own problems.

Silver Crusade

The thing about Sacred Weapon is that it wouldn't matter for a Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain. They get the main part of Sacred Weapon, the magical enhancements but the damage dice don't matter so much. The MAC is ideal for having some mighty weapon, a great sword for instance, and using that and their Str bonus and the Weapon Training to damage just like a Fighter. A Fighter doesn't get scaling damage dice and aside from their general limitations as a class, weapon damage is never a problem. Sacred Weapon damage only gets past a greatsword at level 20. Or say you are an Iomedean and stick with the longsword, it is only beaten at level 10 - if you are a front line warrior and you still care about those initial damage dice at level 10 you are in real trouble.

The scaling dice is pretty sweet for unarmed strikers and archers, it's a solid and consistent bump that never gets old. For a Str-based two-hander MAC gets a better deal.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
But Arsenal Chaplains' Sacred Weapons never rise above 1d6.

Don´t worry, you don´t **have** to take the sacred weapon damage. Get a good polearm, for example, and you will NEVER have lower damage than a regular warpriest - by the time the damage dice of the sacred weapon gets bigger, you will have enough bonus damage from weapon training to compensate - by the time the regular warpriest´s sacred weapon does 2d6 damage, the arsenal chaplain with a halberd gets 1d10+3. That is all before you add in the extra attack and, depending on the DM decision in the matter, advanced weapon training benefits.


plus lets do some maths
at lv5
1d6 to 1d8 is average of 1 damage per hit.
Weapon training is 1 attack and 1 damage. using conversion and you're getting 3 damage instead of average 1.
at level 9 you're getting another 3 damage 1 level before the weapon damage die goes from 1d8 to 1d10, another 1 damage boost.
so at lv10 you're 4 damage up on the sacred weapon scaling damage dice.
then at 13 you're getting another 3 while it'll be 2 more levels till the WP gets 1.5 from sacred weapon.

So, even if using a dagger, IUS, or archery, the arsenal chaplain is better for you than the sacred weapon scaling. And it's just all bonuses for anything that used bigger damage die anyways.

For this the flow is r1 fervor divine favor that DOES use a spell up.
r2 use sacred weapon as a swift action for it's increase
then higher level it's r3 a swift for quickened blessing/greater blessing.
and r4 for the other blessing.


Between the arsenal chaplains weapon training and the clerics self buffs. They actually become a more accurate "to hit" class then most full BAB classes.

Bad thing about them is their healing just doesn't keep up with the other divine classes. The way I get around this when playing my warpriest is with scrolls. A scroll of Heal a 8th level, while a bit costly, fixes a lot of problems.

_____________________

Another class that might work is the Summoner. Summon up a healer, tank, just about anything you need.

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