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Hello, just a little question..
it's said that every 10000gp in sacrifices, an idol gains +2 to INT, WIS and CHA (or 0,+2,+4).
It's also said that an idol must receive a minimum of sacrifices each month, or else it'll lose power.
So, every cult serious about sacrifices and not missing a month should either be "new" or having an idol with 20 INT,WIS and CHA ?
Or did I misunderstood (or misread) and the 10000gp in sacrifices are to be done the same month (so, most of it during a holy day) ?
for reference: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/variant-magic-rules/idols
There is a limit on sacrifices.
Quote: Sacrificial Limits: Although cults may offer sacrifices as if their idols were insatiable, the benefits an idol can gain in a single month is limited. The maximum sacrifice value an idol can benefit from in a month is equal its Ego score × 500 gp (see holy Days for exceptions to this maximum).
yes but let's say an idol has a Ego score of 10, and has 5000gp of sacrifices each month, it gains +2 to its abilities every 2 months.
20 month later it's 20 INT, 20 WIS and 20 CHA...
And if you do "less" sacrifices (monthly minimum is EGO x 100gp), it just takes more time but still have an idol with 20 everywhere...
Let's keep an EGO of 10, and minimal sacrifices : 1000gp. It takes 10 month for a +2, 50 month for going from 10 to 20.
So an idol is max power after 4 years, so any cult "serious about sacrifices and not missing a month" (and it's easy, 1000gp is 4 goats) older than 4 years old has an idol with 20 everywhere...
If we take the minimum, an idol with 10 INT, WIS, CHA and only one follower killing 600gp worth of INT1 or 2 animal (less than 3 goats.. easy...) each month (EGO 6)...
Around 17 month for +2, so 85 months to 20 everywhere.
A lone cultist worshipping alone an idol and giving minimal sacrifices (chicken ??) could give 20 INTWISCHA to his now all-powerful idol..
So, PCs should only meet 20 INTWISCHA idols,except the all new trendy cult just born.. :D
If it's 10000gp DURING THE SAME MONTH, it's better, you can "level up" only on holy days and with massive sacrifices.
The rest of the year you just make sacrifices so your idol do not lose power.
It's more coherent but it's not what's written. (Or at least what I read, and english is not my first language).
Idol Entropy wrote: Power gained by idols is not permanent, and worshipers must maintain whatever strength an idol has achieved through offerings. Without sacrifice and veneration, idols eventually become nearly inert vessels for a trapped, frustrated entity, relying on whispered promises to entice the weak-willed to rebuild their congregations. Not only does an idol's Ego score decrease when its popularity among worshipers declines, but an idol that doesn't receive monthly sacrifices whose sacrifice values total at least its Ego score × 100 gp also takes 2 points each of Charisma, Intelligence, and Wisdom drain at the start of the following month (to a minimum of 10 each), decreasing its Ego score accordingly, and loses the use of one special ability. This is permanent, though the points and abilities can be regained through sacrifice and worship as normal. /cevah
But a few chicken are enough for enough sacrifices each month, so, you won't lose anything and in a very short time (a few years), your Idol Will have 20 int, wis and cha...
What a terrible and evil cult Of two worshippers, sacrifying chicken for 10 years and having an all powerful Idol... :D
Either the 10000 limit is too low or it should be 10000gp during the same month (thus ability increase could be only possible on holy days and with a certain number Of worshippers -enough for having 10 Ego).
How is Ego Score X 100 chickens every month "just a few"?
Rysky wrote: How is Ego Score X 100 chickens every month "just a few"? Blood sacrifices aren't based on their gold piece value as an animal. A blood sacrifice is worth 250gp per hit die of creature (500gp or more if Intelligence is 3 or higher). A single chicken is a sacrifice worth 250gp.
Of course, that only applies to evil idols. Since he keeps mentioning blood sacrifices (goats or chickens) I have to assume he is only concerned about evil idols. Or he doesn't know that only evil idols can accept a blood sacrifice. For good or neutral idols, you would have to prepare those animals as food (feasts are an acceptable sacrifice), and a pound of meat is only worth 6 sp.
His link doesn't work, but this one should.
Jeraa wrote: Rysky wrote: How is Ego Score X 100 chickens every month "just a few"? Blood sacrifices aren't based on their gold piece value as an animal. A blood sacrifice is worth 250gp per hit die of creature (500gp or more if Intelligence is 3 or higher). A single chicken is a sacrifice worth 250gp.
Of course, that only applies to evil idols. Since he keeps mentioning blood sacrifices (goats or chickens) I have to assume he is only concerned about evil idols. Or he doesn't know that only evil idols can accept a blood sacrifice. Ah, okies, thanks.
The link up there wasn't working so I was just going off the trade price for chickens.
Yes I know the rules and I'm talking about evil idols :)
RAW, it seems to me that anyone alone worshipping an idol with 10 to its abilities scores can turn it into an all powerful idol with a lot of powers and 20 to each ability scores in less than 10 years.
So any evil cult the PC could meet should have very powerful idols, or it's a brand new cult or the worshippers are very very VERY lazy :) (ego 10 needs 4 chicken a month to sacrifice...).
So, the question remains, am I reading something wrong and the "10000gp to level up" is only applicable during 1 month (the amount of sacrifices resetting...), which could be more logical (as I told before, this would lead to monthly sacrifices being just only to keep the idol without loss, and the holy days, to gain 10000gp in a day with massive sacrifices, enabling level up to idols able to gather 10000gp).
So, I am reading it wrong, or should I houserule "10000gp same month" ?
Because as RAW, it's ridiculous (I'm repeating...), one worshipper, 5 years, 4 chicken a month, you create a god (I'm rounding the numbers to simplify, I know it's not 4 chicken all time as the minimum increase as the idol level up).
Sorry english is not my first language and I don't want to sound agressive or whatever...
I'll try to make it clear, I'm asking for :
- You're reading it right, and true, it's dumb.
- You're reading it right, but you forgot to take into account something that make upgrading an idol not so easily
- You're reading wrong ! You dumb french frog !
:)
No, you aren't reading anything wrong. The problem isn't the 10,000gp needed. The problem is the vastly overvalued blood sacrifice.
A 2 cp chicken should't be worth 250gp as a sacrifice, nor should 2 chickens equal a person.
Thanks, so I'll open a thread in the houserule section to discuss about the remedies :)
Note... you also need to get thousands of people to actually worship the idol.
Your 'two cultists' example would have an ego range of 5 to 21... while an idol with 3001+ worshippers would have an ego range of 25 to 40.
In short, the weakest widely worshipped idol (i.e. with no sacrifices) is still more powerful than a sparsely worshipped idol receiving unlimited sacrifices.
Sure, but in less than 5 years, the solo worshipper chicken-killer would still have an icon with 20 int, 20 wis, 20 cha and 21 EGO
It could have : immortal promise, divine source, enthrall and revelry 1/day (benefit for our chicken-killer friend : no need to eat, drink, breathe, all illness healed every day, gain spells, and feeling good :) ).
And 3 times a year : spellcasting x 2, granting 10 points to launch any spells predetemined.
Pretty powerful for a poor psychopath discovering a forgotten idol...
But could be interesting... sure !
My main grief is not the power, it's the quickness to attain "full level relative to number of followers", leading to make not realist you could meet an idol not at 20 int, 20 wis and 20 cha and full power (depending of number of followers, sure).
"Oh the idol failed its save against my spell ! -Yes humm we're a new cult, we started last year, we had this idea, you know, worshipping this thing, it looked wicked..."
Any cult older than 5 year should have an icon with 20 int, wis and cha, that's what bothers me !
Divine Source doesn't grant spells by itself. It just allows someone already capable of casting spells (like a cleric) to choose the idol as an appropriate deity. A commoner won't get any benefit from that.
Hey, it was about time I misread something :)
The important thing to remember is that the desired CR should determine an idol's Ego score. Legendary Games's Ancient Idols has advice about this.
Sure you can arbitrary decide the CR, but if you imagine the calendar of yearly sacrifices, you immediatly realize either abilities should be at 20 if the cult is more than 5 years old, or that worshippers must avoid sacrifices once in a while so the Idol stay at 12 int,14 wis,16 cha for exemple. "Sorry rockhead, no sacrifices for you this month, we don't want you too powerful, go stone-cally on our head if you want to punish us, but sorry 16 cha is enough, you'll be 14 this month but regain 2 soon !"
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The link broke when I updated it so this is the revised summary table for Idol characteristics - looks like there is a similar one in Ancient Idols also...
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