What if...

[Leafar Cathal]

Hey folks. I'm reading the hardcover version of this adventure path and I'm wondering:

What if my players Don't wanna join the Korvosan guard? Should I suggest them to visit all the world's Meat anyway?

I'm trying to give them some sort of sandbox experience, and thus I dont wanna drive them where they dont want to be. What should I do in this case?

[Steel_Wind]

Leafar Cathal wrote:

Hey folks. I'm reading the hardcover version of this adventure path and I'm wondering:

What if my players Don't wanna join the Korvosan guard? Should I suggest them to visit all the world's Meat anyway?

I'm trying to give them some sort of sandbox experience, and thus I dont wanna drive them where they dont want to be. What should I do in this case?

Not what you want to hear: but I think you need to rethink your choice of adventure then.

The social contract when playing an Adventure Path is to accept the hook that is offered in order to drive the play forward. That's essentially non-negotiable.

I admit that in the circumstances of the beginning of this particular AP, the start is not organic and feels forced. I get it; I really do. (I don't like it either; though that is only a dislike of this particular set of rails, not rails, generally.)

You can wait until the new year when I expect to finally finish my own PDF and release it here which will offer BIG changes to GMs who want a different beginning to CotCT. Even then though, it's fairly rail-roady, tbh. Just a different set of rails.

Some APs are more conducive to "sandbox play" than others -- but CotCT is not one of them. You need to square with that because what you want to be able to do with this AP is not something it is designed to do. You can spend a lot of time re-designing it, or rethink your priorities.

[Leafar Cathal]

Steel_Wind wrote:

Some APs are more conducive to "sandbox play" than others -- but CotCT is not one of them. You need to square with that because what you want to be able to do with this AP is not something it is designed to do. You can spend a lot of time re-designing it, or rethink your priorities.

I see. I didn't think too much about it, to be honest. I'm a newish GM and this is my first attempt to GM an Adventure Path (though I GM'd a bunch of PFS scenarios) and I'm having fun, just wanted to have a second plan if they don't find joining the Korvosan forces would suit them.

I'll think a little more about it to make the encounters work even if they don't join the Korvosan guard. Maybe having someone else to guide them.

[Inspectre]

To give you an alternate viewpoint, I'm not sure things are so dire that you have to put a gun to your players' heads and say "You have to swallow whatever the AP gives you, or quit."

Some alternatives, in rough order of how painful it'll be for you:

1) Work out the disagreements in-character. Ok, they don't want to work for the guard. Would they want to work for the guard if they got a 1,000 GP sign-on bonus? Each? If there's some in-character reason for them to not want to work for the guard, short of some sort of ideological conflict there might be a way to smooth over the disagreement in-character.

2) All roads lead to Rome. Ok, so your players are all criminal scum and don't want to work for the guard. Have some other NPC direct them to the various encounters in the first book. DeVargo is a possible boss for criminal scum types - maybe the World's Meat guards are messing with his business in the neighborhood and he wants them gone. You'll have to alter the part involving him, but maybe you play out that part first and they have to prove themselves to him before he'll hire them (instead of bribing him for letters on an NPC that doesn't exist, will never exist at any point in the AP, and is basically a useless name). Or if they became caretakers for Lamm's Lambs, maybe one of them asks to intervene because they or someone that they care about got involved with All the World's Meat (either as victim or renegade guard). Basically you're just coming up with some other reason for the players to go through all of the same encounters.

3) Make up your own rails. Come up with some alternate adventure, pieced together from your own work and what bits you can steal from the AP itself that make sense and any other adventures you have available. You can thus customize the AP to your players' choices, but it's a lot of work and you should still do your best to follow the general outline of the AP (become heroes, fetch a magical sword, overthrow the evil queen).

4) Play or Quit. If your players are just being a bunch of contrary gits and refuse to bite at any plot hooks you offer, then just shoot their characters in the head and end the game. There's a limit to how much you should have to accommodate your players when it's your time and money they're wasting.

[rkotitan]

In my opinion it's just a matter of selling it not as, "Hey, join the guard and get three square meals a day! We'll pay your admission to the University after 10 years of service!," and more of, "Hey, if you care about your city and the people that live here I have some work that might pay well."

The key is, and in my opinion essential, to get it through to your players that the majority of them should have a reason to care about the city or the people even if they are criminal scum. "I might steal from old ladies and shake down shop owners for protection money but damn it all I love my city!"

I'm sure it's not hard to imagine that kind of character inhabiting a modern day city.

If that is not the case they at least have to be sold enough on the monetary awards as characters to sign up as occasional 'agents of the guard'.

spoiler:

There is even a point in the AP early on where Cressida Kroft essentially says, "I can't pay you to do Guard work anymore in an official capacity but if you are willing I might be able to hire you for the odd job in service of Korvosa."

If it's more their interest, morally dubious characters in a sandbox environment just screams Skull and Shackles to me.

(In fact it was that moral ambiguity that lead me to end my own run through of it.)

[Turelus]

I mostly handled this issue by telling my players during our session zero that they need to care about Korvosa because if they don't the AP will just stall. They were all happy with that and made characters that would be willing to help the city (having a Paladin and LG Cleric helps too).

That said I am sure that even if they don't directly work for the guard if they're interested in helping the city you can work a lot of the campaigns quests into story elements they hear in rumours or NPC's approaching them for aid.

For All The Worlds Meat specifically.

Spoiler:

You could have a hook where someone says the meat from there seems weird, and it's odd that they have so much to give out for free.

[Raynulf]

Just jumping in to point something out: The PCs aren't expected to join the guard, just work for them as freelancers/mercenaries/bounty hunters.

If you want to modify Cressida to be NG instead of LN (which I always do - her backstory and methods seem closer to NG to me at least), and have her meet PC bounty-hunters in smokey back-alley bars out of uniform and a simple (i.e. the PCs can see through it) disguise, then it is a good way to appeal to characters less inclined to work directly with the Law.

[Sarabel Hieronymus]

I like that Raynulf.

I'm GMing this as a twice-per-month game starting in January and plan to run it straight out of the box, more or less. I want to run a campaign but don't have the time to devote to writing one or even extensively adapting one to meet player demands, so what I'm trying to do is meet player expectations (meet and manage, I should say) instead. I can already tell that at least three of my five players are developing characters that are, at the least, anti-establishment, so anything (like your suggestion here) that will let me keep the fun going while still pretty much leting me run the encounters as presented is more than welcome.

It's really a gorgeous book, and I can't wait to pick up the pawn set for it or the minis line when it becomes available. Hopefully we'll all have a blast.