i think hiiamtom's argument was in reference to the Planar Warrior ability.
Ah. Well in that case, my position is exactly the same, except I'll also add that Horizon Walker hates two-weapon wielders. That's not only hateful and mean but is curiously hostile to the archetypal D&D ranger. :)
Good to see some free 5e UA playtesting for the artificer, ranger, and rogue. ;)
Per a tweet, looks like the next UA will be on 1/30.
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The UA Sorcerer article is finally out! They look pretty cool too. :)
It looks neat! :-D
Phoenix is a cool concept, but I'm not a fan of all that 1/long rest.
The Sea curse ability is cool, would be interested to see it in play because I get the feeling it plays differently than it reads.
Stone is interesting for a gishy sorc, reintroduces one of my favorite swordmage mechanics. Stretched kind of thin though, you want Str to make melee attacks, the Smite spells still have DCs so you want Cha, and Con is the base for your AC.
I feel like Sea/Stone go wider than their concepts by a fair bit, makes the flavor kind of weird in some cases.
Edit: The more I think about it, the more I think bringing in the Swordmage's Aegis ability would've gone better on the Paladin class.
Not sure why they did that to Favored Soul... the earlier version was more fun.
Because it was ridiculously powerful? Standard sorcerers have 15 spells known at maximum, but here, have another 10 by 9th-level??
Curse of the Sea (forced movement) seems like a fun addition to a repelling blast eldritch blast.
So even more sorcerer/warlock synergy!
EDIT:
A Mountain Dwarf Earth Sorcerer can wear half-plate and shield, with a possible AC of 19 with Dex 14+! Not too shabby.
What is up with the sea sorcerer's Water Soul? Water elementals don't have immunity to crits in 5e.
Stone Sorcery just seems incoherent. Metal magic? Does martial weapon proficiency and those weapon-oriented spells do much once you get into higher levels? Force damage?
Favored soul looks pretty good, overall. I'd play that.
I dunno, starts to really blur the distinctions if there's a wizard archetype for the Sorcerer. Should Wizards get a metamagic archetype?
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I dunno, starts to really blur the distinctions if there's a wizard archetype for the Sorcerer. Should Wizards get a metamagic archetype?
Metamagic Wizard.
2nd level: You gain a number of Wizardry Points equal to half your level. You learn 1 metamagic secret. You spend WPs instead of Sorcery Points to use your metamagic secret. When you use Arcane Recovery, you regain half your Wizardry Points (minimum 1).
At levels 6, 10, and 14, you learn 1 additional metamagic secret.
Sorcerers do make up for it with class abilities, I think you're underestimating (exclusive access to) metamagic.
Quicken allows the Sorcerer to cast faster than any other mage. Twin allows the sorcerer to maintain a concentration duration buff on two creatures rather than one (such as Haste, which is normally single target now). And should they need to, they can convert those points into bonus spell slots on the fly.
My low level wizard is hurting right now because he only has one attack cantrip, and all the enemies in the current dungeon resist or are immune to firebolt. If he had another cantrip, he'd be doing a lot better. I wouldn't knock cantrips in 5e.
Warlock Pacts expand the spell list, they don't get them for free.
I think the new sorcerer is modeled in play style on the old wilder.
Good to see some free UA Sorceror playtest stuff. ;)
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Here's the UA for Warlock and Wizard.
Warlocks:
Hexblade (while you were socializing with fiends, fey, and Cthulhu, I studied the blade)
Raven Queen patron.
New hexes (including uniques for some older pacts!)
Wizards:
Lore Master - So the bard stops upstaging you. Can also change their elemental spells to another damage type on the fly, which is something I wish my wizard could do. Once per short rest, they can change the type of save a spell targets, which also seems amazing (not quite Portent tier, but the next best thing). They also get their version of metamagic, not as powerful as the sorcerer's (no twin or quicken), but they can add some oomph, significant range, or the DC, by spending additional spell slots.
Edit: Okay I went back and read the Warlock stuff.
Hexblade:
Most of their bonus option spells don't scale, which is unfortunate because Warlocks always cast at max level. Shield is probably still worth it.
They get to use Cha when not 2handing, and wear medium armor and a shield. This is truly a warrior class. The Curse is 1/short rest, nifty - Use it on a boss, or use it on one of his minions to get some decent mid-combat healing.
The Shadow Hound is mostly a ribbon ability, but can help you land some parting Eldritch Blasts when the target flees. It gives you essentially permanent information on where your quarry is, unless they take some powerful magical means to be rid of it.
Armor of Hexes is fantastic, when you already have a solid AC (let's say non-magical, Breastplate (14), Dex 14 (+2), Shield (+2) = 18 AC), now you curse a heavy hitter and it has 50% miss chance against you.
Lvl 14 removes the rest limit from your curse, which is like capstone christmas came early.
Raven Queen:
Spell List: Also scales poorly in general. I like Spiritual Weapon in general (not a Concentration spell), but the Warlock may want to use his bonus action to cast Hex (and switch it when targets die). Still, an extra attack with Hex damage is a good boost to DPS.
You get your own Raven familiar! Except it gives you its take of Alertness when perched on your shoulder, and it's immune to damage and anything else that would harm it as long as it is with you (You hear that David?! You can't kill this one! RIP Muninn). If it does die while flying about, it comes back a day later (or at next short rest), and meanwhile you have advantage to hit the person who dared kill your bird for 24 hours.
At 6th level, you can fuse with the raven (shrinking down, not turning into Swain from League of Legends), so you can fly wherever you'd like (but you can't rain death from above in this form). I'd still send the raven to scout first, before going there yourself.
The later abilities, eh, not too cool, but okay.
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Continued for invocations:
Burning Hex: I'm not sure if it's good, but it's very funny for me to imagine a warlock, sword against sword with his opponent, just wishing they'd combust.
Caiphon's Beacon: I like this one a lot. Two fun skills, and advantage against Charmed targets makes it a build-around-me, which is somewhat rare in 5e. Now you just need to find some good ways to charm creatures.
Chilling Hex: Probably a better version of Burning Hex, making enemies not want to stand next to the one you're fighting.
Patron+Pact Combo: Interesting design space, but so restricted...Would probably feel bloaty to make some of each combination.
Claw of Acamar (GoO, Blade): A rare combo, but a powerful invocation to incentivize it. Reach + reduce speed to 0 allows you to abuse medium or smaller martials, and if you go rogue 2 for bonus action disengage, you can kite anyone without a ranged option.
Curse Bringer: Now here's a pact/patron combo that will be common. This is great for cutting a swath through weak enemies, but if you don't get the final hit, that's it for your curse. Still, you get the option to smite. Concern: You get a greatsword here, but it doesn't specify it's an exception to the 2hander Cha rule, does it?
Kiss of Mephistopheles is great, I love EB as a fireball delivery system.
All of the EB flavor by patron invocations are cool, I like the ability to make the Warlock's bread and butter feel more unique depending on their patron.
Looks like Blade pact gets flavored by patron invocations for everyone as well, which I also like.
Tomb of Levistus: Is that you, Mei?
In case it isn't clear: I love this UA, 10/10 homerun in my opinion.
@hiiamtom: You can take Hexblade as patron, Blade as pact, thus getting access to the extra attack invocation (Thirsting Blade). That's probably what gishy warlocks will prefer.
Raven Queen is also a patron, while the chain is a pact, so I don't quite understand what you meant. You'd prefer it if the Raven Queen worked better with the Chain pact? I think you could have double familiars that way, as the raven isn't technically one.
Hm, I'd definitely go Hexblade+Bladepact. Bladepact with other patrons is still fairly MAD, though they have some very cool invocation-blades.
The reason the Bladepact struggles on its own is because the pact only gives you one feature, then expanded invocation options. There could in theory be a "Hex Warrior" invocation (though it would be so powerful for any Warlock, just to get medium armor+shield), but making the Hexblade entirely Bladepact invocations would give you no choices for invocations.
I think I prefer the execution they went with, complimenting a pact with a patron.
Edit:
The reason pact of the blade was underpowered was because it tried to make the Warlock enter combat in a way the class isn't really suited for (prior to Hexblade patron). Tome and Chain just give the Warlock bonus utility, but the Blade gives you a magic sword and tells you to get in there.
Hexblade
Nice thematics. I was homebrewing a Hexblade archetype for the fighter and eventually I realized that what you really wanted as a melee and cursed oriented warlock. Well, this delivers.
- I am not a fan of Cha-based attacking. When you can play a class with basically one ability it really cuts down on variation and makes it difficult to balance against other characters. And why the hate for two-handers?
- People complain about combat being long, and then you have something like Armor of Hexes come along. Wow! No firm opinion yet.
- I am fine with the level 14 ability, it makes the curse benefits more of a permanent bonus.
Raven Queen
Weird, but overall good. Kind of weird that you can end up with both a shoulder raven and a pseudodragon familiar.
Lore Mastery
Good thematics. I feel like it offers so many strong features, though, that it overshadows the evoker. This archetype gains a lot of the bursty ability of a sorcerer, without losing much utility, and has much sexier boosts than the more slow-and-steady damage dealing of the evoker.
- Getting a +2 DC on spell DCs is sort of off the hook. I'm not quite sure where we're going with this. Strong, affects bounded math. I think a lot of people would pick this just for this ability.
- Or for the ability to cast magic missile with a range of 1 mile!
- Prodigious memory is weird. Why does it even need to be in your book if you can call up a spell so easily? What does "in your book" mean? What if your spellbook is captured?
- Master of Magic is a nice high level ability that fits thematically. It lets you do a lot of wish-like stuff without getting nuts.
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@RJGrady: I don't think it becomes a SAD class with Cha for melee, it just stops being MAD. You'll still want at least decent Dex and Con as anyone entering the fray would.
+2 to DC requires burning a lvl 3 slot. Lvl 3 slots are pretty amazing, so it's probably worth a good payoff.
I'm not an Evoker fan, but to play devil's advocate: Evoker is less likely to blow up his allies with sculpt spell. Slow and steady vs. burn spell slots for burst might depend on your adventuring day.
It's weird to me that the melee-focused Pact is not friendly to a Strength build, though.
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It is Str build friendly! Apparently it's not an oversight that the Hexblade's invocation, Cursebringer, provides a greatsword (which cannot use Cha from Hex Warrior).
So if you go for a Str BladePact build, Curse Bringer (and Claw of Acamar and Mace of Dispater) are there for you as goodies.
I DMed this weekend and put my party of six level 4 PCs against a pair of level 9 artificers (1 alchemist, 1 gunsmith).
The setup was the PCs were raiding a warehouse to steal some phlogiston for their airship. They did some recon, but accidentally missed the portion the artificers hung out in.
The main chamber was dog-leg shaped and filled with lots of tanks of electric eels and some CR 1/2 mechanical guards with lightning vulnerability. So that was fun.
It worked out pretty cool. The robo-dinosaurs were fun and helped with action economy. The artificer's bonus action spells were nice, too. The gunsmith's 6d6 damage attacks against PCs with 4d8+Con hit points didn't lead to a TPK or even any permanent deaths. The alchemist's fire attack from his satchel was effective. 3d6 vs 3 PCs at once, enough damage to be scary, but not enough to wipe the party out all at once. The gunsmith's blast wave was really fun; essentially a thunderwave spell that targeted all my PCs' weak saves (the strongest in the party is 12!), so they got thrown around a lot, and it broke a couple of those electric eel tanks for more mayhem.
I DID forget to cast alarm, which is a shame, since it was a heist. But there was enough gunplay and heavy magic being thrown around that it didn't really affect anything. The rogue uses a pistol, so they're not a particularly stealthy group....
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Reading through other forums, I've noticed two types of reactions to the Raven Queen Patron in regards to the Chain pact.
1: What's even the point of the Chain pact now?
2: AAA I'M GOING TO DUAL WIELD RAVENS AAA!!!
Where do you stand?
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I for one love the Lore Mastery. I can build my elven wizard king again, and it feels very much like the Pathfinder build that I had going. The fact that this archetype lets you sacrifice spell slots that you can get back with a short rest (as per arcane recovery). I imagine that they might tone a thing or two down, especially the metamagic (1 mile range is off the hook) and so on, but I don't imagine that the final result will be terrible.
Maybe it'll earn radiant and force elemental substitutions later as well.
Okay, now I want to consider the pros and cons of going Curse Bringer Hexblade (Str) vs. Hex Warrior Hexblade (Cha)
Curse Bringer Pros:
Better weapon damage (2d6)
Better burst damage (when using CB "smite")
Better sustain (You can move the curse when you kill the enemy, so you're more free to start with a mook to get some HP back. However, you have to get the killing blow, or you can't move the curse afterwards)
No feat tax (A normal hexblade will have a weapon and shield and will need War Caster to cast in combat. You can just take a hand off the greatsword for a moment)
Curse Bringer Cons:
More MAD (EB will suffer, you can avoid spells with saves, but those would also suffer)
Lower AC (Greatsword means no shield)
I'd probably only dip 1-2 levels, the Champion's increased crit range has redundancy with the Hexblade's curse expanded crits.
You can take the Thirsting Blade invocation for Extra Attack as a bladelock, which won't stack with other Extra Attacks.
A casting class might be best for more spell slots to burn with Curse Bringer.
I like the Warlock options overall, but have some issues with the flavor. "The Raven Queen" isn't a great patron concept because every other patron is generic. Making this an archetype has the unfortunate effect that 1) anyone who doesn't use the Raven Queen as a goddess in their setting has to ban or significantly reflavor this option 2) suddenly there's loads of adventurers running around who made a pact with the Raven Queen (as opposed to relatively few G.O.O. warlocks who made a pact with, say, Shub-Niggurath specifically).
I mean, I have always liked the Raven Queen and I think this is a very cool archetype that I would totally allow in a game I was running. I just would prefer for any eventual officially published new warlock patrons to be more generic than this one.
Also, I very much dislike having invocations tied to specific patrons. None of the PHB invocations are like that - you don't need a fiend patron to take Fiendish Vigor or Chains of Carceri. Get rid of the fluff sentences and get rid of the patron requirement (with the obvious exception of the ones which modify the Hexblade's abilities).
Oh, and Curse Bringer should be changed in some way so that it doesn't require the use of a greatsword specifically, because right now it's unusable by Small warlocks (greatswords are heavy). This is probably just an oversight rather than a deliberate decision.
I liked invocations tied to patrons, different flavors of EB depending who is fueling it, etc. But don't forget to reply to the survey next week if you don't like that sort of thing!
The greatsword is not an oversight per twitter, the smiting pact weapons are all made to reward strength (or dex, in the case of the fey) builds.
I do think these invocations are really fun and flavorful, but one of the things about the warlock that I always liked was how customizable it was, and the PHB invocations not being tied to patron is a big part of that.
For example, the first one in this UA, "Aspect of the Moon," says that the Moon Maiden has granted you her favor and now you don't need to sleep anymore. But you could easily have the same thing on a Great Old One warlock and say "Your patron's eldritch whispers in your mind deny you even the solace of slumber, but its power sustains you regardless, and you no longer require sleep..." etc.
Similarly, the pact smites. You form Dispater's mace created in the second circle of the Hells, that's neat. But maybe my pact is with a demon lord so why should I get a weapon from Dispater? Why do I specifically have to use a mace to do this cool attack? I no longer get to flavor my pact weapon however I want, which is something that the PHB explicitly suggests players should do.
Mandating a specific heavy weapon doesn't so much reward a Str/Dex build as it punishes Small characters because I can't choose to use something non-heavy even if it's not optimal. Two of the options, flails & maces, aren't heavy, but the other two smite weapons are. "Moon Bow" makes my Gnome Feylock sad because her patron the Summer Queen can't give her a shortbow with magic arrows, only a longbow that she can't use properly!
(And yes, I definitely intend to give feedback on the survey when it comes out. I just also love talking too much about warlocks.)
I'm fine with the smite weapons having a special prototype they're sculpted from. Most Hexblades will probably skip Cursebringer to be Cha based, and if it wasn't a 2handed weapon, it would need to be scaled back (so Hexblades would get the "weakest" special weapon) for balance.
Small characters are naturally "punished" in weapon access though.
I take your point about the two-handedness of Curse Bringer being a balancing feature.
It's true that being small restricts your weapon choices, and so I'd rather not restrict it any further. Like, it's not going to be optimal but if someone really wants to build a halfling with Great Weapon Fighting who uses a longsword two-handed for 1d10, they can do that.
Maybe Curse Bringer could work like Great Weapon Fighting style does. "When you form your pact weapon as a two-handed melee weapon, or a versatile weapon that you wield with both hands... etc." Pretty much everyone would still choose the greatsword, and I don't think there are any balance issues, right?
I just think it's nicer if players aren't locked into a certain weapon choice. Nothing else in 5e mandates the use of a specific weapon in order to use a class feature. With these "a particular patron grants a particular weapon" invocations, a Small bladelock who wants to be decent is basically restricted to 2 of the 5 patron options. If Moon Bow is written so that it can work on either a shortbow or a longbow, nothing changes except that the Archfey patron isn't saying "Sorry, only my medium size warlocks get to shoot cool radiant arrows and destroy lycanthropes. Nothing for you!"
Maybe Curse Bringer can allow Small-sized warlocks to wield greatswords without penalty?
Because magic.
Kind of like a Mini-what's-her-name-that-PF-iconic-barbarian?
I've drafted up a RAW Cursebringer to test in my next game:
lvl 4 Half-Orc with 16 Str, 12 Dex, 14 Con, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14, Great Weapon Master, AC 15 in Breastplate.
If I could use the greatsword with Cha, would be in a higher Cha race, far lower Str, higher Dex (+1 AC), higher Cha (EB/spells on par with non-blade warlock for my entire lifespan).
If I could shape Cursebringer into a longsword (and thus use Cha), it would be as above except my AC would be 3 higher (+1 Dex, +2 Shield), and instead of GWM I'd have to take War Caster.
Just in AC, 15 vs 18 is a pretty significant difference.
If you throw in a level of paladin to start with, you could wear heavy armor and completely drop dex. Also you could stack cursebringer with divine smite later when you get another level of paladin.
True, or I could have 1 more AC in Half Plate, but I'd rather not have Disadvantage to Stealth.
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