You wont find the rule, because they removed the other rules saying that you couldn't (it was only ever in the play test version) do it and didn't add a specific rule saying that you could because lacking the restriction most people would assume you can.
You will only be able to find the old rule if you look for the play test PDF for the Advanced Class Guide. But you wont see that rule appear anywhere in the final version of the ACG.
Are you sure about that. I could have sworn that I saw that in the full release of the books. I will have to check to see if what I have is out of date. It seems like it would be fairly powerful otherwise is why I would like to make sure this was cleared up.... that wasn't an Errata, they've been able to do that since the ACG's debut.
They just couldn't multiclass with one of the parents in the Playtest.
He and I are both recalling it the same, so I'm feeling pretty confidant about this.
It's really not that powerful anyways, none of the classes have particularly strong synergy with their parent classes.
There is a brief mention about multiclassing with parent classes in the book. It says you can, but you may end up with redundant class features such as a brawler and a monk both getting Improved Unarmed Strike for free.
The "no multiclassing with parent classes" rule was playtest only.
It was never printed in the ACG.
We've had a long time and a lot of munchkins and I am not aware of any multiclassing abuses. Multiclassing never seems to be very powerful in Pathfinder.
Just remember, things don't stack between parent classes and hybrid classes. Meaning a brawler 4 monk 3 has the IUS damage of either a monk 3 or brawler 4, not as a lv7.
A fighter 2 and brawler 2 cannot take weapon specialization because they are fighter 2 twice, not fighter 4.
Stuff like that are redundant features too.
The brawler has special text to allow that to work though:
"Martial Training (Ex): At 1st level, a brawler counts her total brawler levels as both fighter levels and monk levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats. She also counts as both a fighter and a monk for feats and magic items that have different effects based on whether the character has levels in those classes (such as Stunning Fist or a monk's robe). This ability does not automatically grant feats normally granted to fighters and monks based on class level, such as Stunning Fist."
But in general, the hybrid classes don't count as the parent classes.
Just remember, things don't stack between parent classes and hybrid classes.
Yes, it's not so easy to find the cases where both classes don't overlap. In my opinion, hybrid classes tend to be significantly stronger than their parents - so VMC or dip into the parent class should very rarely work well.
On the other hand, you can use the power up in ACG for the parent class, especially when class features are not overlapping. If you want to be a melee aberrant sorcerer, adding a level of aberrant bloodrager adds quite a bit, including a new bloodline power (Staggering Critical). A level of brawler can remove fighter's need for Int 13, add a flexible feat and offer solid unarmed damage as fallback option. And a level of swashbuckler can help out a fighter also, will push him somewhat into the 'light armor, light weapons' corner, though.
The brawler has special text to allow that to work though:
"Martial Training (Ex): At 1st level, a brawler counts her total brawler levels as both fighter levels and monk levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats. She also counts as both a fighter and a monk for feats and magic items that have different effects based on whether the character has levels in those classes (such as Stunning Fist or a monk's robe). This ability does not automatically grant feats normally granted to fighters and monks based on class level, such as Stunning Fist."But in general, the hybrid classes don't count as the parent classes.
Yes a brawler 4 can take weapon specialization, this wasn't an example of having hybrid classes not count as parent classes.
The example was brawler 2 fighter 2 which doesn't qualify for weapon specialization. As you count as fighter 2 and fighter 2 which isn't enough to qualify for the feat.
Yes a brawler 4 can take weapon specialization, this wasn't an example of having hybrid classes not count as parent classes.
The example was brawler 2 fighter 2 which doesn't qualify for weapon specialization. As you count as fighter 2 and fighter 2 which isn't enough to qualify for the feat.
Incorrect. The class feature outright says you count your brawler levels as fighter levels for prerequisites.
Weapon Specialization sees the brawler levels as fighter levels. So it will count four fighter levels in total.
For it to work as you suggest, it would need to be worded like "you may treat your brawler level as your fighter level for the purposes of feat prerequisites".
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Each of the following classes draws upon two classes to form the basis of its theme. While a character can multiclass with these parent classes, doing so usually results in redundant abilities. Such abilities don't stack unless specified. If a class feature allows the character to make a one-time choice (such as a bloodline), that choice must match similar choices made by the parent classes and vice-versa (such as selecting the same bloodline).
Yes a brawler 4 can take weapon specialization, this wasn't an example of having hybrid classes not count as parent classes.
The example was brawler 2 fighter 2 which doesn't qualify for weapon specialization. As you count as fighter 2 and fighter 2 which isn't enough to qualify for the feat.
Incorrect. The class feature outright says you count your brawler levels as fighter levels for prerequisites.
Weapon Specialization sees the brawler levels as fighter levels. So it will count four fighter levels in total.
For it to work as you suggest, it would need to be worded like "you may treat your brawler level as your fighter level for the purposes of feat prerequisites".
Yes you have 2 levels of brawler counting as fighter and you have a different 2 levels of fighter counting as fighter. So you're a fighter 2 fighter 2 for things.
here Mark agrees that that's how the rules would work. It's like having channel energy on cleric and on paladin as a cleric and how they are separate. If something said channel energy at cleric 7 and you had paladin 4 cleric 3 you are a 4th level channeler and a 3rd level channeler, not a 7th, even though your paladin levels count as a cleric for channel.
Unless a feature letting you count as something SAYS SPECIFICALLY that it stacks with something the default rule is they don't stack.
See Brute vigilante to see this having IUS as a monk and saying it stacks. So that means that Sacred fist warpriest that is also as a monk for IUS progression DOESN'T stack with actual monk levels to determine IUS damage.
That's the kind of thing that could go either way. Replies from Mark are nice, but far from final. Especially if he's not referring to a class he wrote himself. In this case the language says they stack, because the levels count as fighter levels. If the ability were meant to work as you suggest, then it should have been clarified in the same place it clarified that it didn't work with feats given as class abilities.
Yes you have 2 levels of brawler counting as fighter and you have a different 2 levels of fighter counting as fighter. So you're a fighter 2 fighter 2 for things.
here Mark agrees that that's how the rules would work. It's like having channel energy on cleric and on paladin as a cleric and how they are separate. If something said channel energy at cleric 7 and you had paladin 4 cleric 3 you are a 4th level channeler and a 3rd level channeler, not a 7th, even though your paladin levels count as a cleric for channel.
Unless a feature letting you count as something SAYS SPECIFICALLY that it stacks with something the default rule is they don't stack.
See Brute vigilante to see this having IUS as a monk and saying it stacks. So that means that Sacred fist warpriest that is also as a monk for IUS progression DOESN'T stack with actual monk levels to determine IUS damage.
You're comparing apples and oranges.
Channel energy doesn't say it stacks with other classes. So, it doesn't.Sacred Fist doesn't say it stacks with monk levels, so it doesn't.
But Sacred Fist also uses the language "uses his warpriest level as his monk level". Which is why they don't stack. (And even this ruling is dubious.)
Brawler explicitly states that your brawler levels count AS fighter levels and monk levels for feats. Not that you use your brawler level as your fighter level.
So when it comes time to qualify for feats, your levels look like:
Fighter
Fighter
[Brawler, Fighter, Monk]
[Brawler, Fighter, Monk]
So you would count 1, 2, 3, and then 4 fighter levels. That's enough to qualify for Weapon Specialization.
NO. Brawler 2 fighter 2 != fighter 4. Counting AS something lets you COUNT those levels as something else when looking to see if you have requirements. THAT DOES NOT LET YOU STACK STUFF. Unless something specifically says it stack it doesn't. Counting AS fighter level lets you have a fighter level of 2 from brawler and a different fighter level of 2 from fighter. This is part of the redundant features.
"—unless an ability specifically says it stacks with similar abilities (such as an assassin's sneak attack), or adds in some way based on the character's total class levels (such as improved uncanny dodge), the abilities don't stack and you have to use them separately." Fighter level and Counting as Fighter levels is an ability.
Starting at 10th level, a magus counts 1/2 his total magus level as his fighter level for the purpose of qualifying for feats. If he has levels in fighter, these levels stack.
Sentinel levels stack with fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats with a fighter level prerequisite.
Vigilante is the same that it doesn't stack with actual fighter levels.
vigilante ... but he is treated as though he had a number of fighter levels equal to half his vigilante level for the purpose of qualifying for this feat.
EDIT:
It would need to say this to stack.
"a brawler counts her total brawler levels as both fighter levels and monk levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats. If she has levels in Fighter or Monk these levels stack onto those levels." or somesuch wording.
Parent Classes: Each of the following classes draws upon two classes to form the basis of its theme. While a character can multiclass with these parent classes, doing so usually results in redundant abilities. Such abilities don't stack unless specified. If a class feature allows the character to make a one-time choice (such as a bloodline), that choice must match similar choices made by the parent classes and vice-versa (such as selecting the same bloodline).
Fighter Training (Ex): Starting at 10th level, a magus counts 1/2 his total magus level as his fighter level for the purpose of qualifying for feats. If he has levels in fighter, these levels stack.
Martial Training (Ex): At 1st level, a brawler counts her total brawler levels as both fighter levels and monk levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats. She also counts as both a fighter and a monk for feats and magic items that have different effects based on whether the character has levels in those classes (such as Stunning Fist or a monk's robe). This ability does not automatically grant feats normally granted to fighters and monks based on class level, such as Stunning Fist.
Does not have the same stacking clause as the magus.
The swashbuckler would be even weaker if it couldn't just become a fighter after it gets free finesse, improved critical, and most of the best deeds. Can you imagine?
I'm so sick of people being like, Oh hey, even though the rules says it has to explicitly say it stacks to stack, this OBVIOUSLY is meant to be an exception. And that this crops up basically EVERY time a class has a similar ability.
And that this crops up basically EVERY time a class has a similar ability.That would be due to the rules not beingintuitive.
consistent.
Really, the rules are a writhing mass of exceptions and special circumstances. Even if two class features are called the exact same thing but are coming from different classes, you have to double check if they really are the same thing.