What is a Save or Suck caster?
Is this two separate types of caster or just one type that is great 50% of the time.
It's a caster who specializes in 'debuffs'. Spells that don't outright kill a target, but they might as well be dead since they've been rendered impotent. Spells like Slow, for example.
The name comes from the fact that if you don't save against their spells ... sucks to be you.
"Save or Suck" is any spell where you must make a save or suck (you're severely impaired in combat). A good example of this is any spell paired with dazing spell metamagic, make the save or be unable to act while the party kills you without retaliation.
A save or suck caster is someone who specializes in using these types of spells.
As a special note, you also have spells like Enervation which are just "suck it" spells because there is no save.
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Some other examples of 'save or suck'
Level 1 wizard/sorcerer spell Color Spray has a 15ft cone. Any 1HD creatures that fail the save are not ONLY stunned, but are also blinded AND knocked out. Letting everyone else kill them at leisure.
Level 1 wizard/sorcerer spell Sleep. Put up to 4HD of enemies to sleep, enough said.
At higher levels you also get spells such as Webb (traps people), Hold Person (stops a person), suggestion (nasty), Finger of Death (Dead), Charm Monster/Person.
The PLUS side is that when these spells work they work VERY well. The down side is that when they don't work then you are screwed. PLUS the majority (not all) of these spells fall under enchantment, Illusion, or Necromancy. Meaning that against undead and constructs you are pretty much useless.
All in all they can be VERY effective, but they are also easy to counter.
Take a look at Mystic Mickey, my Save or Suck Psychic.
Aelreth points out a lot of standard spells. A couple standouts from Mickey's spell list:
1st: Ill Omen - I quicken this for an extra save on whatever I'm about to cast.
2nd: Mental Block - Dragons forget how to fly, breath weapon, burrow, cast...basically just their full attack routine all of the sudden. DIVINATION
Oneiric Horror - an alternate of Hold Person - ignores targeting requirements, ignores immunity to paralysis, but is ineffective against true seeing. ILLUSION
3rd: Synesthesia - good low level debuff, but doesn't scale up well.
4th: Confusion - this can win fights on its own with "attack-locking" between multiple confused targets.
Wall of Blindness/Deafness - Good for zoning out opponents and moves you to an alternate save. NECROMANCY
5th: Feeblemind - drooling Wizards. Because I'm a psychic, I use this with Will of the Dead to deal massive damage to undead, who use their CHA mod for HP.
Mirage Arcana - "Anyone who failed their save now believes they're in an ocean." Things start attempting swim checks.
6th: Mass Mydriatic Spontaneity - Will save or Nauseated for rounds/level in the Haste template. EVOCATION [light, darkness] (!!!!!) - even the single target version is good, and that's 3rd level for psychics.
Greater Object Possession - That golem that is typically immune to magic? It's not immune to this. I typically just stand there and tell the party to attack while I possess it for a minimum of 2 hours. Requires Spellcraft ranks, which you should have anyway. NECROMANCY
7th: Waves of Ecstasy - Save or Stunned. You drop what you're holding when you're stunned.
The name comes from save or die when there were a large number of spells that would outright kill the target if they failed their save.
And to add my 2cp for the OP: to specialize in that kind of spell typically means to exploit some niche which allows for higher DCs on the saves or other advantages. You often place certain races into your build, just because they offer that +1 or +2 DC over the others, even if you wouldn't touch them with a 10' pole if you met them in real life ;)
You also try to get other ways to make your spells stick, like the domain which allows messing with other d20 rolls. The result is often a highly min/maxed build, even sometimes a one-trick pony, which does one thing really well. Most of those builds work only at a given level range, they are typically non-existent at low level (you won't notice someone is specializing there) and stop working at high levels (since the monster saves have become too good and the immunities too common). I guess, most of the SoS builds work best between level 5 and 15.
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Save or Die= Failed Save means Death...Like Phantasmal Killer, Sleep (Fail means Coup), Color Spray(Fail means Coup), Plane Shift (depending on the plane sent)
Save or Suck= Fail the save and you are near useless and much easier to kill. The enemy is still there and able to take actions or limited actions. But most likely they are 1 foot in the coffin
Suck (it) Spells= Like mentioned Above...No save (Enervation) or Effects on a passed save (like ray of Enfeeblement)
For wizards there is a large anti SoS philosophy, I know Treantmonk is against them. A lot of people thinks it can steal the glory from martial, as it makes them useless. The idea is to focus on battlefield control and buffing, which can be SUPER deadly! I mean enlarge person + bull's strength + minmaxed barbarian? Who stands a chance?
Of course, many sorcerers are typically used as blaster builds making this all the more common. Also, the big thing, Save or Suck (usually) affect one target.
the anti SoS is that saves go up pretty quickly, and save DC's are hard to raise.
So you have a SoS that wins you the fight 60% of the time but 40% you wasted your turn and a spell slot, or haste which lets your martials do better.
Then later you have the SoS that wins 45% of the time but 55% you wasted your turn and a spell slot, or haste which lets your awesome martials do better.
Many view buffing(ex. haste) as the better option because it's for sure having a good effect on the fight. While the SoS is more immediate effects but riskier.
the anti SoS is that saves go up pretty quickly, and save DC's are hard to raise.
So you have a SoS that wins you the fight 60% of the time but 40% you wasted your turn and a spell slot, or haste which lets your martials do better.
Then later you have the SoS that wins 45% of the time but 55% you wasted your turn and a spell slot, or haste which lets your awesome martials do better.
Many view buffing(ex. haste) as the better option because it's for sure having a good effect on the fight. While the SoS is more immediate effects but riskier.
The anti-SoS mantra has a hard time surviving Persistent Spell and/or Ill Omen. The other thing is to have a variety of available options. Some of those options can and should be things that aren't dependent on saves for the exact reasons you gave. In my psychic's list, Wall of Force fills that particular slot nicely - I frequently ready actions to interrupt hostile actions against the party or use it to zone out enemies in larger combats.
Having seen Mickey in action on multiple occasions, Persistent metamagic rods are greatly underpriced for the majority of situations having to make a save twice is harsher on your chances of surviving then a much larger increase in the save DC. I wouldn't say that it is broken, but with some of the nastiness of high level spells things can get shutdown real fast.
If the target roll is 11 (50% success) then persistent is an effective +5 increase to the DC. However as you deviate from the middle the effective DC increase drops to ~1-3 depending on how far to the edge you go. So ideally you want to get DC boosts to keep up with saves and try to stay close to or slightly over that 50% target.
The anti-SoS mantra has a hard time surviving Persistent Spell and/or Ill Omen. The other thing is to have a variety of available options. Some of those options can and should be things that aren't dependent on saves for the exact reasons you gave. In my psychic's list, Wall of Force fills that particular slot nicely - I frequently ready actions to interrupt hostile actions against the party or use it to zone out enemies in larger combats.the anti SoS is that saves go up pretty quickly, and save DC's are hard to raise.
So you have a SoS that wins you the fight 60% of the time but 40% you wasted your turn and a spell slot, or haste which lets your martials do better.
Then later you have the SoS that wins 45% of the time but 55% you wasted your turn and a spell slot, or haste which lets your awesome martials do better.
Many view buffing(ex. haste) as the better option because it's for sure having a good effect on the fight. While the SoS is more immediate effects but riskier.
This is also the portion of the game where you start to transition to "Save AND Suck (Fail and Suck More!)" (Sasfasm for short) spells like Icy Prison. Fail, fight's over. Save, still sucks to be you.
Having seen Mickey in action on multiple occasions, Persistent metamagic rods are greatly underpriced for the majority of situations having to make a save twice is harsher on your chances of surviving then a much larger increase in the save DC. I wouldn't say that it is broken, but with some of the nastiness of high level spells things can get shutdown real fast.
Mickey doesn't even have one of those rods. >.>
It's when a wizard tries to summon a succubus but loses control over her. its short for 'save or succubus'
Another aspect of the Save or Die/Suck Casters is that they either do really impressive things with a single spell...or your Round is totally wasted and all you have successful done is waste a limited resource.