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This is a real corner case question....
Can a PC use stuff picked up from defeated foes without having to pay for it?
Specifically, coins. If my PC casts the spell coin shot and throws coins picked up from a defeated mook earlier in the scenario - do I need to mark those coins as expended from my PC wealth?
If we pick up 100 gp - can my PC find a local temple of Abadar (or some other "bank") and change them into (about) 10 platinum pieces, then use some of those in a casting of coin shot? Would this count as my PC "spending" money?
Thank you for your answers!
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Whatever price a PC pays to bargain with an outsider needs to be listed as gold spent at the end of the scenario the same as if he had spent real gp out of his amassed wealth. Whether or not the equivalent of that gp value came from his own existing gear, an item found in the scenario, or his cache of coins is immaterial. You cannot use the proposed workaround to get free material components.
and in the same thread
It's not just this spell that will be clarified. Any time you have a spell requiring an expensive material component, you need to pay for that component. That means if you find 250 gp worth of diamond dust in a dragon's lair, you can use it to cast stoneskin, but you don't magically get that diamond dust for free. It's value comes out of your cut of the loot at the end of the scenario.
If people don't like that spell components are treated differently than consumable magic items, then maybe we need to revisit how found consumable items are handled in the campaign. Regardless of where that discussion goes, spell components have costs for a reason; you can't circumvent that by using a campaign-specific rule meant for a different thing.
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I have the Alchemist Discovery "Healing Bomb" - it uses Curing Potions (or Extracts of Cure spells) to Heal the target of my bombs. So, if I throw a Cure Moderate Wounds potion I just picked up off of Mook #138 - do I need to pay for it? Full price or Half?
If my PC were to pick up silver/magic arrows from Mook #138 and use them - does she need to pay for them?
If my PC were to "salvage" black powder and shot from Gunslinger Mook #138, and use it in her musket, does she need to pay the FULL PRICE or just the discounted price my PC pays for her own bullets? or does she pay any at all?
If I pick up several long swords from Mook #138 thru Mook #142 and use them on a Ramoriz - and they melt (I didn't use MY sword for that reason - I didn't want it to melt!), do I need to pay for those swords?
So, realizing that I am not SPENDING it as money - why do I have to use my coins as ammunition rather than the coins I just picked up?
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And here's your precedent; not that I expected anything else. :PWhatever price a PC pays to bargain with an outsider needs to be listed as gold spent at the end of the scenario the same as if he had spent real gp out of his amassed wealth. Whether or not the equivalent of that gp value came from his own existing gear, an item found in the scenario, or his cache of coins is immaterial. You cannot use the proposed workaround to get free material components.and in the same thread
It's not just this spell that will be clarified. Any time you have a spell requiring an expensive material component, you need to pay for that component. That means if you find 250 gp worth of diamond dust in a dragon's lair, you can use it to cast stoneskin, but you don't magically get that diamond dust for free. It's value comes out of your cut of the loot at the end of the scenario.
If people don't like that spell components are treated differently than consumable magic items, then maybe we need to revisit how found consumable items are handled in the campaign. Regardless of where that discussion goes, spell components have costs for a reason; you can't circumvent that by using a campaign-specific rule meant for a different thing.
what's the precedent? I am confused... are we considering the Coins the spell is cast on Material Components?
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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There is no doubt that if you use GP, Gems, or sold items acquired to buy things, material components, or exchange to other coins. That results in an expense on your sheet.
However, if you got an item, and used it during the adventure you are not penalized.
They cannot sell off any items found during the current adventure
You can use any item that you find during the adventure for free until the end of the adventure
Items consumed or destroyed for any reason are not crossed out on the Chronicle sheet. Items given to NPCs or that are used as spell components are crossed off.
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There is no doubt that if you use GP, Gems, or sold items acquired to buy things, material components, or exchange to other coins. That results in an expense on your sheet.
However, if you got an item, and used it during the adventure you are not penalized.
They cannot sell off any items found during the current adventureYou can use any item that you find during the adventure for free until the end of the adventureItems consumed or destroyed for any reason are not crossed out on the Chronicle sheet. Items given to NPCs or that are used as spell components are crossed off.
Ouch! that does it then...
"Items given to NPCs ...are crossed off...". Yeah - the PC shot NPCs with the coins, so I guess that would count as giving the NPC the coins... and that would reduce the total gold gained in the scenario. I'll try to have the judge change the Gold award from now on.
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The intention of the spell is that it costs you money. Casting the spell costs you money. Full stop.
How about when the spell is cast, but the coins aren't used? (or some are, and some aren't? - often the PC only get's to throw one or two of the three coins enchanted...). Are they still deducted from the total gold reward for the scenario?
How about "salvaged" black powder and shot. The "intention" of costing gunslinger ammo so expensive is that it costs money to use it. Does a PC need to pay the FULL PRICE when using captured powder/shot or just the discounted price she pays for her own bullets? or does she pay any at all?
Does the same apply to the Alchemist Discovery "Healing Bomb"? When they use a "recovered treasure" potion with it?
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Online
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If you do not use them they just turn back into normal coins after ten minutes, per the spell.
The intention of the spell is that it costs you money. Casting the spell costs you money. Full stop.How about when the spell is cast, but the coins aren't used? (or some are, and some aren't? - often the PC only get's to throw one or two of the three coins enchanted...). Are they still deducted from the total gold reward for the scenario?
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If you do not use them they just turn back into normal coins after ten minutes, per the spell.
The intention of the spell is that it costs you money. Casting the spell costs you money. Full stop.How about when the spell is cast, but the coins aren't used? (or some are, and some aren't? - often the PC only get's to throw one or two of the three coins enchanted...). Are they still deducted from the total gold reward for the scenario?
Yes they turn back into coins, but SCPRedMage did say that "The intention of the spell is that it costs you money.", and the spell WAS cast - so it should cost money.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Online
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The coins are destroyed if they are actually thrown. That's the "cost". Anything you expend in the scenario is deducted from rewards at the end of the scenario. IF you never toss them at someone then they are not destroyed and still count to your rewards at the end.
As far as consumables like potions and such go - it says the following in the guide:
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The coins are destroyed if they are actually thrown. That's the "cost". Anything you expend in the scenario is deducted from rewards at the end of the scenario. IF you never toss them at someone then they are not destroyed and still count to your rewards at the end.
As far as consumables like potions and such go - it says the following in the guide:
so - does the spell turn them into ammunition/weapons or magic items?
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Nope, they are just coins with benefits that go bye-bye when you use them to bean someone in the head, and get deducted from your rewards at the end if used for said beaning in the head.
As you stated yourself, they never stop being coins:
...
How about "salvaged" black powder and shot? Does a PC need to pay the FULL PRICE when using captured powder/shot or just the discounted price she pays for her own bullets? or does she pay any at all?
How about healing potions used as weapons? (the Alchemist discovery "Healing Bomb")?
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Online
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The difference between gold and consumables items is that you are keeping the gold you find during the scenario at the end of the scenario, and you are not keeping consumables/items you find at the end of the scenario you are just getting access to buy like items, if they are on the sheet.
So, if you are destroying the gold coins you are finding along the way, it's coming out of your cut of the gold at the end of the scenario.
The guide specifically indicates you are free to use found consumables during the course of the scenario without cost. If you use a healing potion you found during the scenario you get to do so for free. Assuming the consumable was listed on the chronicle sheet, the consumable item would still be on the sheet at the end because you are getting access to buy like items - you are not getting that specific consumable item you found in the scenario.
With gold, you are actually getting the gold and/or gold equivalent value of certain items found in the scenario.
So destroying said gold coinage reduces your reward at the end by that amount.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I don't know... Are found arrows that are shot at NPCs "given" to them (and thus need to be paid for), or are they "consumed" (and thus wouldn't need to be paid for or crossed off)? I'd say the OP's coins, as he's using them, are more like ammo than money being spent.
Arrows are broken 50 % of the time, and recoverable the other 50 % of the time.
The coins are expended 100% of the time.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Why is this apparently so hard to understand?
If you spend any cash, you get it deducted from the sheet. Seriously, this isn't complicated. What is the hang up?
The entire reason it's designed this way is to level the playing fiend in terms of wealth. If you use coins in a scenario and another coin thrower doesn't, you will have more wealth at the end. That isn't fair in any calculus. The guide prevents the unfairness.