What kinda flight do Wendigos have?

[Wildstag]

So after a recent discussion on reddit, I realized that many of the monster blocks are missing a crucial piece of information, and it centered around this:

Do Wendigos have magical or non-magical flight, and if it's magical, can an anti-magic field actually prevent them from moving at all?

I really couldn't find any monsters that had an "(su)" or "(ex)" next to their flight speed. With creatures like hawks, I assume it's (ex), but with a Djinni, I assume it's (su), but by raw, since it doesn't say it's not cancelled my anti-magic, I'm out of luck with my argument.

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find it at all.

[Java Man]

My starting split would be wings = (ex). Barring some sort of blimp monster I don't recall that should take care of it.

[jbadams]

Does all flight need any designation? Traditional flight by flapping wings doesn't strike me as something that's "extraordinary"; if we don't need a designation for base speed I don't see why we can't also have an undesignated fly speed that is "just flying" rather than anything extraordinary or supernatural.

Agreed however that some stat blocks probably should designate the type of ability granting flight.

[Bob Bob Bob]

So you can't shut down movement period without something like paralysis. If they don't have a land speed they can still move 5 feet as a full-round action.

By the rules (this being the rules forum)... I just can't tell you. There's no real way to tell, and I think it's left to GMs on purpose. The general guideline I've seen (I think from James Jacobs, keep in mind this means not rules) is that wings=Ex and everything else is Su.

I honestly have trouble here, because the Wendigo flight thing comes from their transformation into a Wendigo, running in the sky until their feet burn off into bloody stumps. Which is... Su? It comes from an Su curse but it's not really implied to be supernatural itself (they're not a Wendigo yet). It even refers to it as "wind walks" (which would be Sp) and explicitly does not give their actual speed, so while there's a whole bunch of language about exactly how the transformation works and that you can't cure them afterwards, there's literally no way to stop them during the 2d6 minute transformation (since it doesn't tell us how fast they move). So it's a giant mess. Personally, I'd say it is Ex, as they were somehow capable of it as just a cursed creature, before they became a Wendigo.

[Wildstag]

jbadams wrote:

Agreed however that some stat blocks probably should designate the type of ability granting flight.

At least certain questionable ones. Ghosts clearly have magical flight, and Djinni would too, but how would a dragon achieve lift while simultaneously breaking the square-cube law?

And Bob Bob Bob, I was mostly wondering because prior to the magical curse that turns a victim into a wendigo, the human (in this case) can't fly, but after getting this magical curse, they can. That indicates to me at least that their flight is magical in nature (that and I can't really find a non-magical creature with perfect maneuverability, but that may just be me not finding it).

[Snowblind]

Bob Bob Bob wrote:

...

By the rules (this being the rules forum)... I just can't tell you. There's no real way to tell, and I think it's left to GMs on purpose. The general guideline I've seen (I think from James Jacobs, keep in mind this means not rules) is that wings=Ex and everything else is Su.
...

There ain't no "Guidelines" about it...

Bestiary 3 Glossary - Universal Monster Rules wrote:

Flight (Ex, Sp, or Su) A creature with this ability can cease or resume flight as a free action. If the creature has wings, flight is an extraordinary ability. Otherwise, it is spell-like or supernatural, and it is ineffective in an antimagic field; the creature loses its ability to f ly for as long as the antimagic effect persists. Format: fly 30 ft. (average); Location: Speed.

[Samy]

So if a ghost has magical flight and it is cancelled in an antimagic field, do they splat flat on the ground like a two-dimensional sheet, or do they fall through the ground since they're intangible?

[Snowblind]

Samy wrote:

So if a ghost has magical flight and it is cancelled in an antimagic field, do they splat flat on the ground like a two-dimensional sheet, or do they fall through the ground since they're intangible?

Universal Monster Rules - Incorporeal(Ex) wrote:

...

Incorporeal creatures cannot fall or take falling damage.
...

[Samy]

So if it can't fly and it can't fall, I assume it remains stationary in relation to the planet. What happens in a situation of isostatic rebound? Earth rises, does the ghost fly upwards at the same speed as the earth rises, maintaining a constant distance from the planet's surface? Or does the rising earth eventually catch the ghost? And if that happens, will the ghost be slowly pressed against the surface or does it go through it?

[Wildstag]

OOOO thanks Snowblind, I never read the bit of the Bestiary 3 because it's just one of the "extra" books. Thanks!

However, in my hypothetical with the Paladin grappling it so it stays long enough for the field to be cast, the Paladin's immunity to fear is dropped as well, so the Wendigo's howl still affects them. But the Wendi can only move 5 ft anyway, so it's silly either way.

The Paladin should be immune to becoming a Wendigo though, so all's well that ends well.