I could use some advice for building Harley Quinn for PFS. Here's what I've come up with so far.
Unchained Rogue (Acrobat) would be my primary class, then I would throw in a couple levels of Brawler or Unchained Barbaian for some muscle. Her stats are:
STR 16
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 13
WIS 10
CHA 12
For her weapon, I'm thinking a club (baseball bat) or morningstar (spiked baseball bat).
Well, I am not terribly familiar with Harley Quinn's abilities....other than I see her carrying around a baseball bat in the movie previews. But, based on everything I have seen about her I think your CHA score may be a bit low.
What about one of the many archetypes of Monk? She doesn't appear to wear any armor that I can see.
What alignment were you going to choose for her? Wouldn't she be considered "evil"?
I think she could fit as a brawler too. She dodges a lot and enjoys hitting things. The problem is that she uses guns a lot too. A brawler could give her emergency proficiencies. And you wouldn't need to put a 13 in INT either. She's smart but not that smart in the context of the DC universe. The WIS should probably be lower as she can be manipulated fairly easily. The low Will save sucks though.
Considering that she is a psychiatrist, she would have a fairly decent int. Also, the bat is mostly something that they made up for the movie, in the comics she uses a giant hammer a lot more, in fact she uses knives more than a bat. Although I do agree with a low wis. Also, she really doesn't fit very much with unchained rogue, or really any rogue for that matter, as she doesn't do a whole lot in the way of going for the vitals, or anything sneak attack-y, in terms of how she fights, I do think brawler is more the way to go, but she has always been a character that was more driven by story and interaction with other characters, as opposed to a particular fighting style, so, in theory, you could make her work as a character with pretty much any class and any build so long as you were able to roleplay her properly, as with a character like her that is what is really important, as she isn't as tied to fighting style like others are (and considering the variety of things she's done, characters she teamed up with/against, and some og the powers she has had, which were then taken away and might have been in her imagination anyway *coughcoughblackbookcoughcough* there really isn't any class that could pin her down).
I think the most fitting class would be Bard with a club or a morningstar.
The Busker archetype would fit her skills very well.
You really need to tank that WIS though. You can pad stuff like Sense Motive through Versatile Perf.
As changeable as she is, I would think maybe some type of Vigilante....
Just have no idea how to make that work.
Josh Windeknecht wrote: For her weapon, I'm thinking a club (baseball bat) or morningstar (spiked baseball bat). Wait, what? Shouldn't that be a Warhammer, probably oversized? Also, a spiked baseball bat would be a Tetsubo.
I think Basker bard fits pretty well (I especially like Impossible Sleight of Hand because that would explain how she can fit a giant mallet in a skintight outfit). Maybe ask the GM if you could replace Living Statue with Poison Immunity?
I'm no expert, so most of this is pulled from some quick research, so forgive me if I mis-represent a character that has such a large cult following:
A few token points in Profession (psychiatrist) should cover that aspect. She USED to be a psychiatrist, but she hasn't practiced in quite some time, and in some versions, she was only an intern at Arkham when she met Joker. In very few versions is she portrayed as an intelligent and effective psychiatrist. Along the same vein, her Intelligence doesn't need to be that high. Probably just don't tank it.
She also has had repeated exposure to the use and using of poisons/toxins thanks to her association with Joker and Poison Ivy. Poison Ivy even injected her with a serum to increase her strength and agility (Dexterity) and give her immunity to most poisons/toxins. So I think Poison Use should me included somehow.
I think her most defining characteristic in combat is her flexibility/agility. She definitely seems like a Dex-based character to me. And points in Acrobatics should round that aspect out.
Beyond that, the build would be kind of open. As mentioned, RP-ing the character would probably be a more important aspect, as she is supposed to be pretty insane. Chaotic Neutral alignment, most definitely. Some would argue for Chaotic Evil due to her being a "bad guy", but she often shows a softer caring side as a foil to Jokers Chaotic Evilness. Often she only edges on evil when someone tries to come between her and Joker.
Slayer might work. Gaining access to Poison Use and poison-related Rogue talents via Slayer Talents. Or could VMC Alchemist, though all the poison stuff comes in pretty late. Investigator could also work, since it includes all the poison stuff, but I didn't really see spellcasting/alchemy as something she would do.
Fighter might also work, being able to use Fighter's Finesse to finesse clubs and warhammers, and Trained Grace to help with damage. Outfits that she wears, as well as the street clothes from the movie could be flavored as light armor, and Armor Training will help ensure she never has an ACP, and Armor Specialization could help her squeeze out some extra AC from light armor, which she would favor due to being dex-based anyway.
I'd probably build her as a Court Bard. She seems to spend a lot of time laughing at & making fun of her foes in a fight.
Intelligent but naive.... she cant help falling for Mr J !!! :))
Harleequin wrote: Intelligent but naive.... she cant help falling for Mr J !!! :)) So... low Wisdom?
low wisdom, i could see low charisma as well since while she can be flashy and attention seeking she is poor at actually influencing others through means other than violence. I believe in the comics she has had at various points super-human or peak human strength. In game terms a greatclub or Testubo would be the best match for her giant hammer. I would go high in all other scores and probably make her a Barbarian of some kind. CN for alignment.
Definitely low wisdom. Harley's got a major lack of common sense. I'd say her intelligence isn't too high (she got into college on a gymnastics sholarship and had to sleep her way up because she really disliked studying and attending non-psychology classes). Maxed out Sense Motive, though.
Also, pretty high charisma, which would fit a bard rather well.
I'd second CN, if you go by the "harley vision" thing in her own book.
@RaizielDragon: She is repeatedly shown to be a gifted phychiatrist and while she may not professionally practiced it much (with her license being revoked and all), she does use the skillset rather often.
@Harleequin: While I agree on the statement, Poison Ivy once discribed what Harley thinks is love to actually be an addiction. It was pretty accurate, actually.
Torbyne wrote: I believe in the comics she has had at various points super-human or peak human strength. Poison Ivy infused her with something (in both Batman the Animated Series and the main comics) that permanently increased her physical abilites and resiliency and gave her immunity against pretty much all toxins. In Pathfinder terms, that would be a boost to all physical stats as well as poison immunity (and I think disease immunity too). Hard to replicate, though.
For a character I used to make sure the PCs didn't go places they shouldn't I made a giant hammer. Using 2 enchantments I managed to make it act as if it was 2 sizes larger in terms of damage. Also looked 1 size larger. Anyway it was a Growing Impact Earth Breaker. With a bit of reflavoring you could probably use this for Harley's mallet or use the enchantments on a Club for the bat effect.
According to many... Batman (Animated Series) is considered the definitive portrayal of Batman, Joker et al...and I largely second this.
Although I would agree she isnt super clever (ie Joker level) she is capable of having what I would call 'Moments of Genius' where she does something completely unexpected (even throwing Batman/Joker off guard) and that has a profound effect on whatever dodgy situation she is in. These moments can manifest in a physical way or in a bizarre tactical way.
Don't know how you could translate that into PF?
A mutagen would replicate that pretty accurately, other than being temporary. Otherwise, if we are talking about a permanent increase, it would have to basically be a potion version of a manual of gainful exercise, etc. So, preferably, the build would just have an emphasis on physical ability scores from the get go to represent already having the enhanced physical abilities, rather than trying to figure out a serum that would cause the increase.
And many of the alchemy-based 6-tier spell classes have access to Poison Immunity. I don't think disease immunity would fall under the category of toxins.
And fair enough on the psychiatry thing. As I said, I don't personally know much about the character, have read almost none of the comics, and only did some quick research to provide some ideas. The fact that she was a psychiatrist at all is almost forgettable for me, and she's always been a minor side-kick from my POV. I'm sure it's going to be very refreshing for all the Harley fans for her to finally get some spotlight, but up until this point, she hasn't really been a mainstream character at all, as far as the wider masses would consider it. Her role in things like the animated series and/or past movies has ranged from non-existent to zany sidekick, with an emphasis on zany. She typically just reflected the crazy jokester antics of the Joker, with the ridiculously over-sized hammer as a good example. I suppose she also was somewhat portrayed as a "cheerleader" of sorts, cheering Mr. J on, so that might explain all the suggestions for a Bard, but I always assumed that was just for comedic effect in a childrens show adaptation.
I'd be interested in some examples from someone who knows better of how her character is portrayed, combat-wise, in the comics. I saw knives mentioned and, like others, have seen the previews showing her using a bat and a gun, and what little research I did seemed to indicate that she also used poisons/toxins to some extent (not sure how much). Other than that, what exactly her role would be in a combat situation is kind of a mystery for me.
For her moments of rare insight and unexpectedly high capability, Inspiration from Investigator could be an idea. Getting to add some extra dice to a check would be a good way to emulate occasional increases in skills. Though the core Investigator is Int based, so maybe find a way to make it Cha based? Is there an archetype for that? If you could combine that somehow with a Gunslingers grit, that might make for an interesting character who has occasional moments of greatness but otherwise can pull off the ditzy sidekick cover.
SO, not being the biggest fan of Harley Quinn (Just what i remember from the animated series from so long ago...) i looked her up on the DC pages.
"Love makes us do crazy things. And for the bubbly and psychotic Harley Quinn, that includes dressing in costume, becoming a super-villain, carrying gag-themed weaponry, and murdering countless civilians—all just to put a smile on her puddin's face."
Powers:
superhuman agility, enhanced strength, intelligence
This gives us a simple template to work off of. From the write up i see someone with very low wisdom and charisma, ie. dependent on others for a sense of identity. I would rack stats in order of DEX, STR, INT, CON, WIS, CHA. Alcmeist is a possibility here. Mutation Warrior could work too. Too bad there aren't any Intelligence based monks or brawlers, that would be ideal i think.
RaizielDragon wrote: For her moments of rare insight and unexpectedly high capability, Inspiration from Investigator could be an idea. Getting to add some extra dice to a check would be a good way to emulate occasional increases in skills. Though the core Investigator is Int based, so maybe find a way to make it Cha based? Is there an archetype for that? If you could combine that somehow with a Gunslingers grit, that might make for an interesting character who has occasional moments of greatness but otherwise can pull off the ditzy sidekick cover. You mean like the Sleuth? It'd let her keep poison lore and poison resistance, eventually becoming immunity at 11. You'd still need to find reasonable Int to make studied combat / strike work well.
Harleequin wrote: According to many... Batman (Animated Series) is considered the definitive portrayal of Batman, Joker et al...and I largely second this. Especially since that series invented Harley Quinn as a character at all. She was in one episode as a nameless female henchwoman (no harlequin outfit yet), and then they decided to run with it.
Derklord wrote: Definitely low wisdom. Harley's got a major lack of common sense. I'd say her intelligence isn't too high (she got into college on a gymnastics sholarship and had to sleep her way up because she really disliked studying and attending non-psychology classes). Maxed out Sense Motive, though. Wow - the comics really darkened up her image from the old cartoon. It gave the impression that she was pretty much the straight-laced straight-A type before she met Mr. J.
To fit with the boosted strength, a Skald might fit better than a Bard. (Though I hesitate to recommend a Skald in PFS due to how much their effectiveness varies with group makeup.)
Harleequin wrote: According to many... Batman (Animated Series) is considered the definitive portrayal of Batman, Joker et al...and I largely second this.
Although I would agree she isnt super clever (ie Joker level) she is capable of having what I would call 'Moments of Genius' where she does something completely unexpected (even throwing Batman/Joker off guard) and that has a profound effect on whatever dodgy situation she is in. These moments can manifest in a physical way or in a bizarre tactical way.
Don't know how you could translate that into PF?
I'm not an expert on the lore, basically what I know is from this thread.
Concerning "moments of genius" for physical it sounds like the swashbuckler deed "derring-do". A character could get that by a level dip or the feat "amateur swashbuckler". The problem seems she doesn't seem to lend herself to a swashbuckler fighting style, so it would be impossible to get panache to use it often.
The investigator class has 'inspiration' that can be obtained with a feat 'amateur investigator'. A level or two of investigator could work for this character I guess.
I'm ninjad by raizielDragon. :P
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
She seems like the gymnast/acrobat type, so Swashbuckler seems pretty fitting actually. Maybe not the "perfectly poised to defend and counterattack" fencer type of Swashbuckler, but definitely the "bouncing all over the place, impossible to hit a moving target, cutting you down with a million stings" kind of Swashbuckler.
Charon's Little Helper wrote: Harleequin wrote: According to many... Batman (Animated Series) is considered the definitive portrayal of Batman, Joker et al...and I largely second this. Especially since that series invented Harley Quinn as a character at all. She was in one episode as a nameless female henchwoman (no harlequin outfit yet), and then they decided to run with it.
Derklord wrote: Definitely low wisdom. Harley's got a major lack of common sense. I'd say her intelligence isn't too high (she got into college on a gymnastics sholarship and had to sleep her way up because she really disliked studying and attending non-psychology classes). Maxed out Sense Motive, though. Wow - the comics really darkened up her image from the old cartoon. It gave the impression that she was pretty much the straight-laced straight-A type before she met Mr. J. Actually, you have it wrong.
Harley was created for the animated series, so that's her first appearance.
Then the comics started to make many different versions of her.
I would probably build her unchained rogue with a light hammer (which can use Dex to Damage thanks to unchained Rogue) to resemble her Mallet.
|
