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If you are running 7-00 and didn't receive an email from me today, please email me at jmcteague@pathfindersocietyonline.com.
Not sure which thread it was in, but I know I mentioned this question earlier, and I don't think I got an official response. Are we allowed to GM a table of 7-00 and play at a different table at the same time?
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If you are running 7-00 and didn't receive an email from me today, please email me at jmcteague@pathfindersocietyonline.com.Not sure which thread it was in, but I know I mentioned this question earlier, and I don't think I got an official response. Are we allowed to GM a table of 7-00 and play at a different table at the same time?
No, please do not GM a table and play at a different table. All of 7-00 is one game, and unless there's pregen shenanigans going on, you cannot GM a game and play the same game.
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No, please do not GM a table and play at a different table. All of 7-00 is one game, and unless there's pregen shenanigans going on, you cannot GM a game and play the same game.If you are running 7-00 and didn't receive an email from me today, please email me at jmcteague@pathfindersocietyonline.com.Not sure which thread it was in, but I know I mentioned this question earlier, and I don't think I got an official response. Are we allowed to GM a table of 7-00 and play at a different table at the same time?
OK. Having already both played and GMed this one, I'm not worried about spoilers or anything. I figured I'd play it Core this time, and GM to add another table.
But I haven't GMed PbP before, so I should probably start with something easier. I know how big and difficult these multi-table specials are to GM, though I've only done them at conventions before, never online.
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No, please do not GM a table and play at a different table. All of 7-00 is one game, and unless there's pregen shenanigans going on, you cannot GM a game and play the same game.
Seems fair. I wasn't certain either, so I did both. I'll withdraw my player seat.
Additionally, I still have some open room at MY TABLE if anyone needs in, or might need to find a different group now. I imagine that some folks might need to change things around.
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No, please do not GM a table and play at a different table. All of 7-00 is one game, and unless there's pregen shenanigans going on, you cannot GM a game and play the same game.
James, this is a change compared to the previous PbP Gameday special where it was allowed. I suggest that you send a mail to the GMs so that everyone is aware of this.
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I have created a Google Spreadsheet Doc HERE just in case this happens to people. I imagine a lot of folks might need to coordinate their tables now, or find a new game to jump into.
Now, that being said, things might also change, so my advice would be to sign up, (it has both a Player and a DM section) to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
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Guys and Gals, Specials are supposed to be special.
There is also a pretty big difference between a DM playing in a game they have already run, or using Replays, and both playing and running in a game simultaneously, especially when there is a set time frame.
Don't get me wrong, I'm having to drop out of a game, too, but I was honestly kind of leery with both playing and running to begin with, and it really is kind of cheating to double dip for the Special's Chronicle sheet. Personally, I'm happy that we even have an opportunity to have access to a Special.
I mean, it's possible that it was a decision handed down from above, or that the last Game Day was just a trial run. If I remember correctly, they where also hurting for 4 and 5 Star DMs last time, which could have been a factor for that one.
It's not the end of the world, and we where asked up front not to get into any RP for the Special's tables, so it really shouldn't be too difficult to sort it all out and have fun, and for every to still get a chance to enjoy the Special(s).
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Guys and Gals, Specials are supposed to be special.
There is also a pretty big difference between a DM playing in a game they have already run, or using Replays, and both playing and running in a game simultaneously, especially when there is a set time frame.
Simply saying that doesn't make it true. And in fact, this is exactly what happened during the last PbP Special that was run, we had GMs playing and running at the same time and I didn't see or experience any problems from the GM/Player who was in my group.
I have to agree. I was thinking of joining a table as well. I mean, being able to simultaneously GM and/or play multiple tables is part of the advantage of PbP. I think the medium of play is just a whole different animal altogether.
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I understand it was allowed before hand, but it seems that it is not allowed this time. No one is arguing that it didn't, nor am I trying to be snippy with you. There is a pretty big difference between replaying a game you might have already run in the past and both playing in it while running the exact same thing at the exact same time. Especially for a Special, which I'm sure the amount of successes and other reportable information do matter. And one could also argue that while it was allowed once before, it was not allowed the three times before that.
I'm not disagreeing that it has happened in the past, but simply saying maybe because it did happen in the past, someone said no this time. Or considers that cheating. Looking at the Game's Posted Page, there are 31 tables of The Sky Key Solution. If we assume that every single DM is also a Player in another game, that's only 31 players that need to withdraw from games out of a minimum of 124 Players to make all those legal tables.
And it's far better than not being able to run or play in a Special at all. It seems to me to be a very fair ruling, as like you mentioned, it's not even an option in Face to Face or even most other Online Play games. The Official PbP Game Days allow for a lot of folks to get access to Boons and things that they might not be able to in any other way. Double dipping for the Special's Chronicles, or more Specials to get the 5th Star is pretty sketchy.
Maybe it will change, and maybe it will not. I can't say. However, if folks do want to see it change, it would probably be a better idea to present reasonable arguments for allowing it.
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While I definitely agree that simultaneously playing or GMing multiple games is a feature of PbP, I agree that concurrently playing and running the same scenario is too close for comfort.
Where is the line drawn? Let's say a GM were playing in Through Maelstrom Rift and GMing it as well? It can only be run at conventions, so it wouldn't be fair at all to limit that. It's perfectly legal there...
The argument that "It's too close" is not really a valid argument. What if someone GMs something at a physical table then plays it the next day? That often happens at conventions for Slot 0's.
Besides, and this is fallacy of an argument, but since other fallacies such as "it's too close" are being used I will state it, but is it really the GMs the ones that we need to be concerned with?
I really don't see any problem with it, but will respect the wishes of people organizing the event.
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...and people wonder why we think twice about running Multi-Tables :p
They sure get heated in comments, and they seem to carry a lot of angst.
Personally my view is that if someone wants to GM & Play then I have no problem, they are doing the broader community a solid by undertaking the needed GM role, of which only a minority ever do, and it immediately costs them the chance to enjoy the experience of being a player seeing the game unfold as it was intended.
If they still want the experience of playing through though then that's something I feel they should decide on, it isn't really my preference personally. So long as the usual caveat of being a bit 'background' is still observed then it seems reasonable they should get the same chance as anyone else to chair up as a player at a table.
Anyhow, Iammars looks like he is off to get more info, so let's see how that goes.
I'm a player for this one - so none of my skin in the game :)
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I will say the likely result of not being able to do both, just from a realistic standpoint, is that I would just play and not GM. I signed up to GM for this game under the pretenses that I could play as well. I'm not gonna cancel my game or anything (I think it'll be quite fun), but the reality is if it is ruled that both cannot be done, I am just playing and not GMing in future PbP specials unless I have already played it in both campaign modes.
I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
I agree with Shifty's last post. People who are nice enough to run a game for the PBP community shouldn't be punished and not allowed to participate as well. They should be encouraged to run games for us nonDM'ers, not discouraged from doing the same If anything, give them a little bonus for helping the community. At least that's my humble opinion.
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As the success of all tables combined determines the success of a special GMming and playing at the same time really seems awkward.
1. Running a campaign where people are assumed to cheat unless proven otherwise is a horrible way to run a campaign.
2. The coordinators should have links to all the game threads and could easily verify success if they really wanted to.
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Come on Shifty, we had fun!
Auke: it is always possible to wreck a scenario. In my opinion this is not materially different than when one has read a scenario before playing it.
I appreciate that James is (apparently) reconsidering this and hope that we soon have a final ruling. I also hope that that ruling is communicated clearly (also in future PbP specials).
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And here I was, just asking an innocent question, not trying to start a flame war.
Personally, I already GMed this scenario before. And I've never GMed in PbP before, so I'm a little reluctant to dive in and do it on a special before anything else, as I know how complicated they can be. So I'm fine just playing this time. The original ruling actually makes my life easier.
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As the success of all tables combined determines the success of a special GMming and playing at the same time really seems awkward.
1. Running a campaign where people are assumed to cheat unless proven otherwise is a horrible way to run a campaign.
2. The coordinators should have links to all the game threads and could easily verify success if they really wanted to.
No one is saying anyone is cheating, but rather that it could easily appear so from outside. (In the sense that other folks might see people getting 2 shots at the Specials Chronicle sheets, which are suppossed to be special and rarer, and saying "Hey, no fair". If I recall, being allowed to run Specials at all in thr PbP was not originally allowed at all, (as in PFS Leadership specifically disallowed online Specials), so my main concern is not causing too many waves that can get them taken away from us.
However, based on James short post above, it looks like someone above them said no, or indicated against it, but on a second look, maybe it wasn't as clear as they originally thought/heard/saw.
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And here I was, just asking an innocent question, not trying to start a flame war.
Personally, I already GMed this scenario before. And I've never GMed in PbP before, so I'm a little reluctant to dive in and do it on a special before anything else, as I know how complicated they can be. So I'm fine just playing this time. The original ruling actually makes my life easier.
I wouldnt say its a flame war. Just a few folks discussing things as we wait for more word. Im ok either way it goes down, seeing validty on both sides.
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Come on Shifty, we had fun!
Auke: it is always possible to wreck a scenario. In my opinion this is not materially different than when one has read a scenario before playing it.
I appreciate that James is (apparently) reconsidering this and hope that we soon have a final ruling. I also hope that that ruling is communicated clearly (also in future PbP specials).
There are a few big differences here though. For one, there is some capacity to help other tables out, and there is also a degree of overall sucess rather than just each table. "Cheating" doesn't have to be something purposfully done, or even something done so much as percieved as cheating. We might view it as playing to PbP's strengths and others an excuse to double dip what is suppossed to be rare/uncommon Chronicles, an easy way to work towards that 5th Star, or I'm sure other things.
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Going forward I've no issues with not being able to GM and play at the same time. I'd prefer if I could both play and GM, but fully understand if for whatever reason the powers that be decide otherwise.
I think the reason there is a little push back this time is that a lot of the GMs feel (reasonably or otherwise) that expectations have changed half way through. They have both committed to playing a table, and committed to GMing a table, so there is a feeling that no matter what they do, they will be letting someone down.
I'm not sure who feels it would be 'unfair' for PBP players to do this. Everyone is a potential PBP player, so it is not like there is a Con happening in Fiji that nobody else can get to.
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Thank you for your patience on this, everyone.
After discussing this topic with the PFSO corp and with others members of the VO corp at large, we have seen that some of our concerns are unwarranted in regard to simultaneously playing and GMing a PbP multi-table special. In light of that realization we have made the following change:
* You may Play at one table and GM one table of the Multi-Table special at the same time. (One table as GM and one as Player, regardless of Core or Regular Campaign.)
* GMs running the Special at the same time as playing the Special must inform the GM of the table they are playing of this, as outlined on page 7 of the current PFS Roleplaying Guild Guide, in the “Replaying Adventures” section.
* All chronicle application guidelines must be followed as outlined in the current PFS Roleplaying Guild Guide.
We believe this is fair to both GMs and Players, and keeps PFS Online in-line with the expectations and limitations of IRL PFS play, while simultaneously making leveraging the unique benefits of the medium.
Thanks for everyone’s understanding on this decision, and I apologize for any problems that were caused by this initial misunderstanding.
Great job, James! That sounds very fair.
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Is there some way to indicate the tables that are full via forum are also marked filled on the PbP signup sheet?
I've looked at two tables of Sky Key Solution for Core and they both have oodles of players in the threads(a wait list in one case, closed recruiting on the other) and it's giving a REALLY confusing 'read' on anything that might be available yet.
Thank you for your time!
EDIT: It also says something for the popularity of the medium if recruiting for tables is closed two weeks before the event is supposed to start... :)
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Hi GMs. I have a 9 year old who would like in on Games Day. He is about to go to his first FLGS game on 28 August. Is there a GM and group who would be ok playing with him? I will be assisting him with making posts etc to make sure he isn't too much of a burden. He has a PFS number and will have a fresh character to play (Shield champion brawler he tells me). Please PM me if you are willing.
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Ietsuna, I'm starting a game specifically for beginners that could be a good fit.
The Confirmation for New PBPers
Last year I offered a couple replayables for people who wanted to give PBP a try. It seemed to go well. If you want to give it a try, or know someone who would, sign up!
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Hi GMs. I have a 9 year old who would like in on Games Day. He is about to go to his first FLGS game on 28 August. Is there a GM and group who would be ok playing with him?
I'd say most GM's would be ok with that, I know I would be.
As long as I got the warning of course, because my assumption is that I am gaming with adults who know what they are doing, and so I'd need to recalibrate expectations and fine tune my level of player guidance :)
The good thing about PbP is that players do have time to read up rules and think through actions in a more relaxed pace, which can be helpful in developing play skills and decision making which translates back to the playing table.