Venture-Agent, Minnesota—Minneapolis
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I never took that to mean it actually belongs to him.Seems a lot of people are missing the most obvious indication that Dreng is not a bumbling fool, likely because they missed the roll and have never GMed this scenario.
** spoiler omitted **
Considering he is on the way to meet with a noble woman and patron, that would be a very bad idea. Sorry, even at his most innocuous he never struck me as dangerously incompetent.
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I would have more respect if briefings didn't wait until it was an emergency.
I realize that it was an early season, but briefings like happen in Penumbral Accords show bad leadership skills. You know there is a problem for a long time yet don't brief people until the night that something has to be done? It isn't like it was even something where the schedule or situation suddenly changed. The briefing made it sound as if people in the society were aware and had been asked to aid weeks before anything had to be done.
Save the emergency meetings for when something has suddenly changed about the situation or they had no way to anticipate what was to happen.
Definitely remember a few morning of briefings that could have easily been night before meetings. Having good tactical information that can be acted on is a good feeling (I acknowledge that being able to pick choice spells adds a larger swing in the challenge rating between different groups and tables). I don't remember if these were early season scenarios or not.
The Consortium Compact was a good one for Ambrus Valsin because he hit most of the important boxes. He did a fact check on his sources and gave the team that info in this mission where betrayal is possible. He gave the full briefing the night before the mission so that agents could change their spell list. And he just gave his iconic gruff no BS and competent vibe.
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... Seriously you don't have rope on every character... I am at a loss to how to react. This seems like a straight forward purchase. Every character I have has rope.
EDIT: Just want to be clear I am not trying to insult or attack anyone. I just literally can't imagine not having these items.
I usually do. It's usually one of my first purchases.
However, I also like to be able to move at 30ft, and especially considering that the clothes we wear use up several pounds of encumbrance allowance, if a character has a strength of less than 12 it can get to the point that carrying rope means moving slowly. Sometimes I'll forgo rope for that reason.
(Do most people even worry about encumbrance? I feels like cheating not to. Technically, it is cheating not to. I know that as GM, the one time I actually audited a player's gear (you bring a martial character to the table with STR 5, I'm gonna look very closely at what you're carrying), the player had totally neglected encumbrance... and this was playing a class for whom it really mattered.)
Venture-Captain, North Carolina—Central Region
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Eliza Petulengro Yes, she's abrasive in some early scenarios. Maybe it was just my GM, but rather than being offended, she left my characters with a "Underestimate me, will you? I'll show you!" attitude.
After a certain series of scenarios I find it hard to underestimate her.
BTW while doing my best to avoid spoilers that is how a VC should be written, show up, inform you that all is lost unless she and you do something ridiculously dangerous together and then proceed to do something crazy together.
Apologies for being unclear... My characters felt she was underestimating them, and were pushed to try to be amazing Pathfinders just to prove her wrong.
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Most of my intelligence based characters, including a Witch, an Alchemist, and an Investigator, tend to hold most VCs in some level of contempt because they suspect them of withholding important information about missions that could help the PCs, simply because they didn't ask the right questions. A good leader gives his/her charges all the tools they can to ensure the successful completion of a mission. If, at the end of a briefing, the party hasn't asked all the pertinent questions, the VC should volunteer any and all info that will help it succeed. Several times, one of my characters have asked, "Is there anything else we haven't asked about that you think we should know?" and the VC will be dismissive and give the lame "you are Pathfinders" excuse. This does not promote confidence in leadership.
On the other hand, most of my characters have utter contempt for the Decemverite! I see them as being like Wolfram and Hart, or The Circle of the Black Thorn. Completely amoral, with their own mysterious agenda, that has no regard for the common folk.
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On the other hand, most of my characters have utter contempt for the Decemverite! I see them as being like Wolfram and Hart, or The Circle of the Black Thorn. Completely amoral, with their own mysterious agenda, that has no regard for the common folk.
...if only there were a faction dedicated to supporting the common folk like exists for 'businessmen', nobles, abolitionists, scholarly researchers/hoarders, crusaders and the Will of the Decemvirate...
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I would have more respect if briefings didn't wait until it was an emergency.
I realize that it was an early season, but briefings like happen in Penumbral Accords show bad leadership skills. You know there is a problem for a long time yet don't brief people until the night that something has to be done? It isn't like it was even something where the schedule or situation suddenly changed. The briefing made it sound as if people in the society were aware and had been asked to aid weeks before anything had to be done.
Save the emergency meetings for when something has suddenly changed about the situation or they had no way to anticipate what was to happen.
True, many people I play with have just assumed that Dreng is a horrible procrastinator.
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If Paizo had the resources, short stories that "bridge the gaps" between scenarios that feature the VCs doing cool stuff would be neat too. Like a bridge between Blakros Connection and Abducted in Aether from Shane's point of view as he searched the planes for [REDACTED].A product I would purchase, although I have no idea how you would keep it clean of spoilers while still delivering.
It'd be neat to have a story like that in a Pathfinder comic.
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When I say i have a 5 strength kitsune martial, people look at me a little funny. I have muscle of the society as a trait, darkleaf cloth everything, and I'm not wearing pants because clothes still cost precious pounds in pathfinder.
Au naturel fur loincloth for the win(d)!
I was not amused when Aram Zey teleported us into a muggy jungle before telling us anything about the mission we were to go on. Inspired me to take plane shift as a spell. How's your will save? How would you like to vacation in Abbadon?
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I like Dreng well enough, as odd as he is. He's interesting, but I'm not attached.
I don't like Zey, he's an arrogant jerk.
Balentir ... is a complicated question. When GMing, I've Roleplayed him annoyed because the PCs were asking questions that weren't really relevant to the plot, weren't answered in the scenario text, and were just nit-picky questions; The kind I don't want to make up an answer for because the answer might come back to bite me later in the scenario. So in more complicated terms, he told the PC to shut his gob. Not a stellar moment for me as a GM.
Also, Echoes of Everwar Series:
I love how loopy Kreigton Shane is.
I LOVE Venture Pirate Captain Calisro Benarry. My Pirate character probably wants to marry her.
Holgarin Smine is pretty cool.
Wulessa Yuul seemed incompetent.
Adril Hestram is disliked for obvious reasons.
I'm weary of Osprey, and I'll spoiler one example of why:
I think Valsin's face is 1/2 mustache, which is why I call him Venture Captain Mustache. Some of my chaotic PCs do the same. I see him as no-nonsense-super-serious, which in the right mindset is hilarious.
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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I dislike Dennel Hamshanks, because he always seems annoyed at the Pathfinders. The whole "I asked for the best, I got you" thing that already got mentioned. Other than that, I pretty much like all VCs:
- Eliza Petulengro is probably my favourite. She seems to actually have respect for the PCs and seems competent.
- Drandle Dreng is a fun goofball, but I agree with that he's up to something, but we need to see him in action. He's been portrayed as a weirdo for too long, it needs to have a payoff eventually.
- Sheila Heidmarch is okay, I guess. She's a little too aloof for my tastes. She usually serves cakes and stuff with her briefings and seems generally disinterested in the PCs.
- Kreighton Shane is fantastic, if a bit annoying. He is incredibly distracted and more serious players will find that annoying, but that's part of his Elfness, I think.
I've had a lot of other VC briefings, but none of them seem to stand out for me. Norden Balentiir has left a favourable impression, but he's a bit vanilla. The ones I mentioned above, be they good or bad, at least left an impression on me. I prefer that to remembering them as "just a face." Speaking of which, massive spoilers for Eyes of the Ten:
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When I started PFS, Dreng was RPed to me as a total stoner. It made perfect sense considering his operating hours, his carefree attire, his untamed hair, and his bleary, squinting eyes.
Just last week I GMed #1-49, one of the famous "wake you up in the middle of the night" scenarios. I RPed him interjecting words like "dude", "totally", that he had the munchies, and everything that epitomizes a Cali pot head.
After the game one of our newer GMs asked me if that's really how he's like. She'd always thought he was just a crotchety old man. I told her that's how I've always thought of him, but feel free to RP him however you feel comfortable.
Seeing as nobody in this thread has mentioned it at all, maybe I'm in the minority.
If we had a short blurb on each of the VCs, including pronunciation and RP, developed into some sort of document, it would probably go a long way to lessen table variation on how VCs are portrayed.
How can anyone like Eliza? After playing and GMing Eyes of the Ten, she represents everything that infuriates me IRL about upper class snobbery and privilege. During my playthrough I was thoroughly convinced we'd return to her Lodge in time to witness a good ol' Galtan hanging.
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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I agree with the idea of having a freely accessible list of VC traits. Thought of mentioning it in my post, but decided against it, as it might get outdated soon with all the new VCs lately.
I like Eliza because she actually seems to care about the persons going on the mission. Yes, she's snobby, but not obnoxiously so, and she's aware of it. Unlike Heidmarch, who treats you like you're footmen.
Oh, also forgot to mention Osprey. I like him, he's weird and gruff, but mysterious. I like the mystery that surrounds him.
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It'd be neat to have a story like that in a Pathfinder comic.If Paizo had the resources, short stories that "bridge the gaps" between scenarios that feature the VCs doing cool stuff would be neat too. Like a bridge between Blakros Connection and Abducted in Aether from Shane's point of view as he searched the planes for [REDACTED].A product I would purchase, although I have no idea how you would keep it clean of spoilers while still delivering.
There is a bug in the flagging system, I tried to flag this as the best idea yet and it won't let me.
Pathfinder Society Lead Developer
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When I started PFS, Dreng was RPed to me as a total stoner. It made perfect sense considering his operating hours, his carefree attire, his untamed hair, and his bleary, squinting eyes.
Just last week I GMed #1-49, one of the famous "wake you up in the middle of the night" scenarios. I RPed him interjecting words like "dude", "totally", that he had the munchies, and everything that epitomizes a Cali pot head.
After the game one of our newer GMs asked me if that's really how he's like. She'd always thought he was just a crotchety old man. I told her that's how I've always thought of him, but feel free to RP him however you feel comfortable.
Seeing as nobody in this thread has mentioned it at all, maybe I'm in the minority.
If we had a short blurb on each of the VCs, including pronunciation and RP, developed into some sort of document, it would probably go a long way to lessen table variation on how VCs are portrayed.
I've seen both Kreighton Shaine and Drandle Dreng presented by GMs as stoners, though that's far from my approach for either. This was only after I had come to understand Shaine as a generally upbeat, inquisitive, and easily distracted fellow with a mind for obscure trivia, and Dreng as an experienced, mildly goofy, avuncular, and somewhat grimly optimistic older man. These characterizations are partly my own interpretations and partly the result of other GMs' presentation, but they're now the filter through which I present the two leaders in publications.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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If we had a short blurb on each of the VCs, including pronunciation and RP, developed into some sort of document, it would probably go a long way to lessen table variation on how VCs are portrayed.
Something like say, 3 paragraphs of the NPC talking about something random, like a mission briefing to another team and responding to their questions, just to get an idea of the NPC's "voice"?
You can do a lot in three paragraphs.
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I've seen both Kreighton Shaine and Drandle Dreng presented by GMs as stoners, though that's far from my approach for either. This was only after I had come to understand Shaine as a generally upbeat, inquisitive, and easily distracted fellow with a mind for obscure trivia, and Dreng as an experienced, mildly goofy, avuncular, and somewhat grimly optimistic older man. These characterizations are partly my own interpretations and partly the result of other GMs' presentation, but they're now the filter through which I present the two leaders in publications.When I started PFS, Dreng was RPed to me as a total stoner. It made perfect sense considering his operating hours, his carefree attire, his untamed hair, and his bleary, squinting eyes.
Just last week I GMed #1-49, one of the famous "wake you up in the middle of the night" scenarios. I RPed him interjecting words like "dude", "totally", that he had the munchies, and everything that epitomizes a Cali pot head.
After the game one of our newer GMs asked me if that's really how he's like. She'd always thought he was just a crotchety old man. I told her that's how I've always thought of him, but feel free to RP him however you feel comfortable.
Seeing as nobody in this thread has mentioned it at all, maybe I'm in the minority.
If we had a short blurb on each of the VCs, including pronunciation and RP, developed into some sort of document, it would probably go a long way to lessen table variation on how VCs are portrayed.
I hear a lot more variation on Dreng than Shaine in my area. Most everyone I know presents Shaine as extremely effeminate (after all, Elven genders are feminine and more feminine) and as distractible as a dog when a squirrel runs by. I get the idea that Shaine is high INT and low WIS. Virtually every Shaine voice is done in falsetto, explicitly at a higher pitch than female NPCs.
One of our local VOs has Dreng as a proper Taldan gentleman, while others have him as rather oblivious and still trying to play straight-and-narrow - just starting to lose his edge, as it were. I tend to run him as mentally present, but starting to lose his sight and slightly off when it comes to time, as though he sleeps during the day, though I do tend to think of him as an alcoholic.
My single biggest problem with Osprey is that he seems to be this guy. My perception that he's trending towards Neutral Evil doesn't help my opinion of him, either.
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Venture-Agent, Minnesota
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Okay... this is hilarious, Serisan. I've never seen Kreighton portrayed with the falsetto, and we're in the same area! In my mind, he's been portrayed like Compton suggested -- intelligent, yet distractible. Maybe a little feminine, but not overly so.
Dreng has been just about everything, but my favorite Dreng of all time was portrayed by Andy Christian in [redacted]* trying to negotiate with the locals. Oh, how we locals enjoyed giving Dreng trouble! (There might have been a teensy bit of player meta-gaming revenge going on for all those middle of the night wake-up calls!)
John Compton, can we have a scenario where the team gets rewarded for grabbing crucial information with the privilege of waking Dreng up with it? It can be middle of the day... I'm certain that must be when Dreng actually sleeps.
___
More seriously, I would love that guide to the VCs document for GMs. Would you like us to start compiling it, and you could chime in and say, "Nope, no way in heck" or "That's the voice I'm writing for?"
Sometimes, I have no idea how to voice a VC, so I look them up in Seeker of Secrets or the wiki and hope that somewhere there's a clue. And if there isn't, I read the dialogue aloud until an accent suggests itself to me. I want the VCs to be memorable and distinctive and interesting, and it bugs me when they are not.
Hmm
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Personally, I've always portrayed Shane as an excitable, overeager college professor who gets easily distracted by some minutia that's briefly mentioned. Which invariably gets him waxing poetically about said minutia, until he suddenly realizes other people are there. Which elicits a "what were we talking about again?"
As for Dreng, I've always tried to portray him as everybody's favorite crazy uncle. He's eccentric, a little weird, but always quick with a funny line or ready to laugh at someone else's joke. Basically somebody you wouldn't mind grabbing a beer with.
OK, this discussion has taken a very interesting turn. Maybe we should start a tangent thread on how we portray different recurring characters?
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Contributor
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I've seen both Kreighton Shaine and Drandle Dreng presented by GMs as stoners, though that's far from my approach for either. This was only after I had come to understand Shaine as a generally upbeat, inquisitive, and easily distracted fellow with a mind for obscure trivia, and Dreng as an experienced, mildly goofy, avuncular, and somewhat grimly optimistic older man. These characterizations are partly my own interpretations and partly the result of other GMs' presentation, but they're now the filter through which I present the two leaders in publications.When I started PFS, Dreng was RPed to me as a total stoner. It made perfect sense considering his operating hours, his carefree attire, his untamed hair, and his bleary, squinting eyes.
Just last week I GMed #1-49, one of the famous "wake you up in the middle of the night" scenarios. I RPed him interjecting words like "dude", "totally", that he had the munchies, and everything that epitomizes a Cali pot head.
After the game one of our newer GMs asked me if that's really how he's like. She'd always thought he was just a crotchety old man. I told her that's how I've always thought of him, but feel free to RP him however you feel comfortable.
Seeing as nobody in this thread has mentioned it at all, maybe I'm in the minority.
If we had a short blurb on each of the VCs, including pronunciation and RP, developed into some sort of document, it would probably go a long way to lessen table variation on how VCs are portrayed.
You know, a "personality guide" for GMs tucked into the Guide to Season 8 Organized Play (or some other document) could go a long way towards helping GMs properly portray the Venture Captains.
The last time we had information like that was in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, and while that CSG is a fantastic book with some of the best collections of rules and flavor in one tome in the game right now, it is five years old and completely out of print at this point, what between having the lore warden archetype, vanities, and more.
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I have a male elf who has a dire affection for Shaine. I even gave him the "Master of Scrolls" GM Boon to represent them spending time together. I roleplay him exactly as I roleplay Shaine: lots of positive, upbeat language, hand gestures, chin taps, staring up at the sky, and making wondrous statements about simple things. I love RPing him so much that he's the only character I've ever taken slow track.
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What Alexander said.
I'd love to see a dossier on each venture captain with their personal histories, skill sets, motivations, etc. Fleshing them out as actual characters--as opposed to disembodied heads that talk at you an go away--would go a long way towards clearing up any misconceptions people have about them.
But most of the variation you see is going to be based on local lore. A few examples from our region:
1) Everyone teases Drendel Dreng about getting PCs up in the middle of the night. I can't actually remember a scenario where that happens, but it doesn't happen in the several Dreng scenarios I am aware of. (A running gag for GMs is to tell the players that they can tell something is terribly wrong because Dreng is meeting them in daylight, so even when he DOESN'T wake them up, he gets blamed for doing so.)
2) Ambrose Valsin was always the favorite VC, largely because one of our real-life venture captains looked exactly like him, and GMs always asked him to come read the briefing. I think he also gets some love from his behavior in the Disappeared.
3) How you portray Sheila Heidmarch depends on who your GM was and which scenarios you played first. She's more sympathetic and personable in the first scenarios I saw her in, but others in our area felt she was a cold, self-centered power junkie.
4) Most GMs portray Kreighton Shane as at least an absent-minded professor because of God's Market Gamble (where he explicitly trails off midsentence and forgets the PCs are there), but he picked up his stoner reputation from his character artwork.
5) A couple of years back, Torch was portrayed by one GM as Hedonism Bot from Futurama, and the creepy factor stuck around.
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Okay... this is hilarious, Serisan. I've never seen Kreighton portrayed with the falsetto, and we're in the same area! In my mind, he's been portrayed like Compton suggested -- intelligent, yet distractible. Maybe a little feminine, but not overly so.
Must be the YMB GMs. We've all followed a former VC's lead with Shaine.
Re: [redacted], I remember your excitement at that table. :-)
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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If we had a short blurb on each of the VCs, including pronunciation and RP, developed into some sort of document, it would probably go a long way to lessen table variation on how VCs are portrayed.Something like say, 3 paragraphs of the NPC talking about something random, like a mission briefing to another team and responding to their questions, just to get an idea of the NPC's "voice"?
You can do a lot in three paragraphs.
wouldn't want to see them respond to a mission briefing, I see that in every scenario. I'd personally like to see something akin to a dating profile: Like Dorothhy Lindman said: personal histories, skill sets, motivations. But also what's the VC good at, what are his character traits, what drives him, what are his hobbies outside of VC-ing. I've seen several VCs portrayed as boisterous loudmouths, that doesn't help me differentiate between them. Maybe Marcos Farabellos is more like the fun uncle you get to see only twice a year, in that he likes his agents to have a fun time on the mission without worrying too much about the rules, while Sheila is the stern mother that wants reports in triplicate and wants them done yesterday. Seeing what they're up to while they're off duty also paints a more complicated picture that might not be easily portrayed, but at least you have a better understanding of what he's like. Because as someone said, right now most of them are just disembodied heads.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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There are writeups of VCs in Seeker of Secrets
Also pathfinderwiki
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If we had a short blurb on each of the VCs, including pronunciation and RP, developed into some sort of document, it would probably go a long way to lessen table variation on how VCs are portrayed.Something like say, 3 paragraphs of the NPC talking about something random, like a mission briefing to another team and responding to their questions, just to get an idea of the NPC's "voice"?
You can do a lot in three paragraphs.
This, copied into the Guide and also available on the web, but also circulated to every scenario author.
You could add audio clips on the web of Paizo staffers playing the character.
Probably ropeMy first interaction with her was as the GM on Night March, where she's trying to help a retired pathfinder.That was my first interaction with her, as well, and she did not make a good impression.
** spoiler omitted **** spoiler omitted **
... Seriously you don't have rope on every character... I am at a loss to how to react. This seems like a straight forward purchase. Every character I have has rope.
EDIT: Just want to be clear I am not trying to insult or attack anyone. I just literally can't imagine not having these items.
We don't play Society... but our DM is working in some society scenarios during our Shattered Star Game.
I've never seen a problem with Sheila in our dealings, but as for this particular scenario I'm curious if our DM changed anything.
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I want to talk about something MrSlanky brought up several posts ago, as I think it's an important part of how people get a bad impression of some of the VCs. He mentioned the questions that follow the briefings. I'll spoiler my comments for length and because they're a slightly different topic.
I'm not saying, either, that a VC should just automatically relate anything the PCs don't ask them. But the information in the answers to the questions is information the VC knows, so it shouldn't need to be triggered by a video game-like asking of a specific question. Just by having the VC volunteer some information if the PCs aren't picking up on it, it might help improve overall perceptions of them.
As far as specific VCs go, I tend to joke about Dreng. That mostly has to do with the early scenarios where it does just start to feel like he's waking you up in the middle of the night every time. But I like him as a character. I tend to roleplay him as a bit like Vizzini from The Princess Bride.
Sheila Heidmarch, I think, suffered from having a lack of information to provide and being the main Venture Captain for the most difficult season of PFS. When so many of the scenarios she starts off are so deadly, it can lead to players being wary of her.
Zey can come across as arrogant in some of his briefings, or at the very least more interested in whatever mission/artifact/thing he's talking about than he is the pathfinders themselves.
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** spoiler omitted **Manacles and loadstones . . .
Training Harness -- 10gp
Silk Rope -- 10gp
Sound of GM's voice when one of our least combat-effective characters volunteers to be tied to *redacted* after the harness was applied as a guide and weight? -- Priceless
What I've found frustrating with some VC briefings is that they're written (or GM'd) so 'loosely' (to prevent giving away key plot points) that the briefing session turns into 'Twenty Questions' and takes far longer than it should.
I realize that the effort is to prevent an 'info-dump' that players will gloss over, but at the same time, if there was some way to personalize that information transfer without being a total butt-hole about it, it'd probably improve the player/GM perceptions of the characters, as well.
I *think* this has been improving, but I haven't played a lot of earlier stuff so someone else would need to chime in on that?
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For Drendle Dreng, one of the GMs who ran him the first few times I encountered him played him sort of like Columbo (gruff, absent-minded, but surprisingly sharp on occasion) and I liked that characterization and have gone with it. For Kreighton Shane, I've been going with a sort of ivory tower professor who took too many magic mushrooms in his earlier days and occasionally experiences flashbacks. That's due in large part to his art, but I think some of his boxed text works very well in that mode.