| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Grey,
I'm assuming you're talking about the outright MURDER of Bruce Banner, right?
Given that the Illuminati already tried to do it once by exploding spaceship....
Drah,
THAT was more of an accident than planned. THIS, this is Bendis just being a stupid writer about MANY things.
As for a Retcon, yeah after this murder, I see a rewrite/retcon coming down the pipe line. Especially if they expect people that enjoy the comics to wonder "Why is there a skinny Asian kid as the Hulk?"
Not that I don't like Amadeus' Hulk. It's pretty neat. But seriously, not the one people expect.
Plus once again, a certain master marksman gets screwed by Bendis...again!
Yeah I couldn't get into Amadeus Hulk either. It's just...not Hulk really.
and Hawkeye has always had a rigid non-killing code. He wouldn't even forgive his own wife when she killed someone who drugged and assaulted her.
Grey,
Exactly. But supposedly now he's killed at least, what two people I'm sure of. This is just nuts and stupid.
Amadeus Hulk is okay but it's still not the Hulk we expect or enjoyed.
One of the things that irks me about these... is that it all seems too easy. Decades of character building conflict that drove storylines... are just ignored for the heck of it.
For example..
Banner HATED being the hulk. He searched for years for a cure... Reed, Tony, Pym all helped him search for years for cures. The baseline 'HULK' storyline is the battle between the smart guy and the monster and how he has to come to terms and channel the Hulk. Finding out 'he transferred his energy to Cho' just feels weak. 1) It shouldn't be possible... 2) He wouldn't have wanted to do that to someone else...
Who can wield Thor's Hammer is a DRASTICALLY short list. Only the most amazing super characters with the purest hearts can pick up the hammer and gain the powers of Thor. Like Beta Ray Bill (Who'se presence shocked all Asgard), Captain America, and apparently Thor's human ex-girlfriend. The idea that in the entire multiverse there are hardly any people anywhere that can even budge that hammer... and Jane was in the book from the beginning the whole time? It feels cheap to me. The fact that I've heard they STILL haven't explained what made Thor UNWORTHY and What Makes Jane worthy... Only makes it feel even weaker.
Tony was a genius with the most cutting edge technology out there. He has waged wars to reclaim anyone from using his tech. Except the 15 year old girl who is smarter then he is... because... I guess we'll have to see what reasons they come up with.
FYI, I'm calling this now... My theory is that she will be Iron man for 2 years tops... Then take when Tony takes it back over she'll be the new War Machine. They'll find some way to replace a black guy with a black girl and screw over any actual Rhodey fans...
There are a lot of Marvel core facts and truths that just seem... ignored to tell a story, when how the new people got around those limitations SHOULDN'T be pushed aside for the story... it should BE the story.
I loved the Eric Masterson years of a mortal with the powers of a god. That was a great story even for a 'replacement.' But it was quickly explained that he had shared a body with Thor and he recognized he wasn't truly 'worthy' of being Thor... he just wanted to do the best he could.
I honestly felt they should have gone that route after Disassembled/Ragnarok. Just leave Thor Dead for a while and have a 'new' Thor find the hammer on earth...
Phantom,
I was happy with JMS' take on Thor. Especially since it left the door open for Donald Blake AND Thor to try new things.
As for Jane being worthy compared to others, I think the reason is quite...reasonable. The multiverse has PLENTY of alternate Thors. Some didn't make it the last time.
Banner DID complain to Cho about him taking back the Hulk from him. But they both accepted Banner WASN'T able to Hulk out any more due to taking out all the gamma charged energy in his body/cells. Also while Banner has been looking for a cure, each time he found one, it resulted in something WORSE happening. Finally after the whole "cloned body" thing with Hulk and Doom, I think he accepted being the Hulk due to it being a kind of chronic condition/affliction much like Ghost Rider's thing.
Does that make it any better that Hawkeye killed him? Hell no.
But I still accept some things. Unworthy Odinson is still bugging me since it's not been TRULY explained in detail what it was Nick Fury Senior said.
Given that the Illuminati already tried to do it once by exploding spaceship....Grey,
I'm assuming you're talking about the outright MURDER of Bruce Banner, right?
I love that people seem to have forgotten that one.
|
Alpha Flight hooked him while looking for a new body for Sasquatch.
[tangent] Gosh, Sasquatch sure would be a different character if he'd accidentally picked a nexus point tied to a *different* Great Beast in which to perform his gamma experiments, instead of Tanaraq, such as Tolomaq (the Fire Beast), Kolomaq (the Snow Beast) or Tundra (the Land Beast). [/tangent]
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The only issue I have with any of these "re-imagined" characters is how whiny and entitled people are now. People just seem to think comic writers OWE them an A-list superhero that's their race/gender/religion/sexual orientation and it's absolute bullcrap.
Writers write because they're artists and they enjoy it. They are not public sector employees, their services aren't paid for by tax dollars and they owe no one anything. If someone doesn't like what a comic writer/artist/company is doing, they can simply choose not to buy their books. But now, people seem to think that any writer who doesn't change an A-list character's race/gender/religion/sexual orientation is some kind of evil nazi. Sorry people, but a writer isn't an evil person just because he doesn't change Superman to match your exact demographic. You may want Superman to match your demographic, but those are just creative differences, not part of some villainous agenda.
I'm an American male of Middle Eastern descent, and there has never been a superhero that represents me. In fact, there isn't even a decent villain that represents me. I'm always "generic terrorist getting punched in the face" in comics, or "generic terrorist getting shot in the face" in movies. Do I go on some kind of rampage accusing everyone of discrimination? Nope. Because I recognize none of these artists owes me anything, I can choose to spend my money on their work or I can choose not to.
|
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
The only issue I have with any of these "re-imagined" characters is how whiny and entitled people are now. People just seem to think comic writers OWE them an A-list superhero that's their race/gender/religion/sexual orientation and it's absolute bullcrap.
Yes, how dare marginalized people not want positive representation of themselves after being shown for years that only white males can be heroes.
Asking for a seat at a table isn't entitlement, it's a basic human right.
Writers write because they're artists and they enjoy it. They are not public sector employees, their services aren't paid for by tax dollars and they owe no one anything. If someone doesn't like what a comic writer/artist/company is doing, they can simply choose not to buy their books. But now, people seem to think that any writer who doesn't change an A-list character's race/gender/religion/sexual orientation is some kind of evil nazi. Sorry people, but a writer isn't an evil person just because he doesn't change Superman to match your exact demographic. You may want Superman to match your demographic, but those are just creative differences, not part of some villainous agenda.
No, writers write what their bosses tell them to write. The same bosses that push the disproven myth that "sex sells" so put as many women as you can in a ridicule outfit. The same higher ups that prematurely end series or characters of otherness because "they know what sells" while hyping and mass-marketing loathed and unlikeable characters.
I'm a Middle Eastern male, and there has never been a superhero that represents me. In fact, there isn't even a decent villain that represents me. I'm always "generic terrorist getting punched in the face" in comics, or "generic terrorist getting shot in the face" in movies. Do I go on some kind of rampage accusing everyone of discrimination? Nope. Because I recognize none of these artists owes me anything, I can choose to spend my money on their work or I can choose not to.
So your apathetic, okay. But do you think you speak for everyone of your ethnicity?
I love that people seem to have forgotten that one.Given that the Illuminati already tried to do it once by exploding spaceship....Grey,
I'm assuming you're talking about the outright MURDER of Bruce Banner, right?
Easy to forget, because it never happened. ;)
First time the ship crashed... Banner Hulked out and smashed the ship causing it to crash. Not Illuminatis fault the ship didn't go where it was supposed to (completely peaceful planet where Hulk could be as left alone as he claimed he wanted...)
Second time it blew up... The Hulk's bug-guy ally sabotaged it keep Hulk on warpath without intending it to kill his wife and kid... Illuminati never had anything to do with one either.
Rysky and Jeff: I see alot of that venom being spewed at these guys from both sides of the issue. Personally, I feel bad for anyone that works in comics these days. I'm an emergency services professional of middle eastern descent, so I'm used to people being suspicious and hateful of me. However, I knew what I'd be dealing with when I made my choice of profession. These guys probably didn't.
Still not sure where you're seeing all these calls for blood for artists/writers for not changing the status quo.
Check out the threads referring to Netflix Iron Fist. There were a LOT of people arguing that making Danny Rand (a white character for 40 years) played by a white actor was incredibly racist and since it deals with martial arts and Asian themes... he should now be Asian
Because... reasons.
So yeah, there are people out there so intent on changing the status quo... that anyone else maintaining the status quo makes them a target.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Still not sure where you're seeing all these calls for blood for artists/writers for not changing the status quo.Check out the threads referring to Netflix Iron Fist. There were a LOT of people arguing that making Danny Rand (a white character for 40 years) played by a white actor was incredibly racist and since it deals with martial arts and Asian themes... he should now be Asian
Because... reasons.
So yeah, there are people out there so intent on changing the status quo... that anyone else maintaining the status quo makes them a target.
Is this people having some semblance of a discussion or would this be just the equivalent of youtube comments?
Outside of singular commentary I have failed to see any evidence of what you're suggesting, that or whatever amount there is is completely drowned out by the overwhelming hordes of mouth frothers screaming blood murder at any change.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Considering that Iron Fist's character was actually inspired by a Bruce Lee movie, and that he was was originally part of a big trend of "let's take ancient and dearly-held Japanese and Chinese traditions and give them to blond white guys to make them superheroes", yeah, there's a big difference between that controversy and the (largely nonexistent) people demanding Superman get racebent. It isn't a standard fandom reaction the way being outraged about an African-American Captain America is—it's a special case about a very particular hero with a complicated past. It was also a question of that 40-year old character being transferred to the movie industry, a place that has always really snubbed Asian-American actors and where a high-profile role for an Asian or Asian-American actor could be really beneficial.
I'm not saying I agree with those who have complained about it, but there's considerably more to it than "make this hero a minority because DIVERSITY".
I have noticed some people complaining that the current array of heroes has been overly homogeneous, but that's hardly news to anyone, surely. Maybe this is what HeHateMe is thinking of, though, since that attitude is considerably more common. I could see someone hearing "DC superheroes are too white" and misconstruing it as "we need to change the races of all the superheroes".
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Who can wield Thor's Hammer is a DRASTICALLY short list. Only the most amazing super characters with the purest hearts can pick up the hammer and gain the powers of Thor. Like Beta Ray Bill (Who'se presence shocked all Asgard), Captain America, and apparently Thor's human ex-girlfriend. The idea that in the entire multiverse there are hardly any people anywhere that can even budge that hammer... and Jane was in the book from the beginning the whole time? It feels cheap to me.
Frankly, I don't think Thor would fall in love with anybody who wasn't worthy to wield the hammer. It makes sense to me that his "ex-girlfriend" would be able to take it up. Especially because she was in the book from the beginning. She's been in it from the start, and reviewing her history, she's certainly been through a lot.
That said, her becoming Thor is still pretty recent, and there's a lot we don't know because it's, y'know, a developing story. It seems silly to me to be outraged at a mystery that has yet to be solved.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yep. There are two issues I see with all this: 1) There aren't enough A-list superheroes to go around. Every demographic can't possibly be represented, even if all comics ban white males from being superheroes ever again. How does a company choose who gets represented and who doesn't?
The other issue I have is people seem to think prejudice is something only white males are capable of. Personally, I never gave a crap what someone's race/religion/sexual orientation is, when I pull up on scene all I care about is someone called 9-1-1 and needs help. I've worked in Latino neighborhoods, white ones, Asian ones, African-American ones, mixed ones. No matter what neighborhood I was in, alot of people would ask "Couldn't they have sent someone else??". Translation: "Couldn't they have sent someone of my race/ethnicity??". Every race is racist I'm sorry to say. I wish that wasn't the case, and I wish all this suspicion and hate didn't exist, but I can confirm it isn't limited to white people.
Sometimes I would get a look of fear from people when I'd pull up on scene and they'd see I'm of middle eastern descent. As if I'm suddenly going to explode. So I apologize to everyone if I offended you, but I do lose patience with how much importance people place on race/religion/gender, etc. To me it doesn't matter and everyone should be treated the same, but more and more I'm feeling like I'm alone in thinking that.
Still not sure where you're seeing all these calls for blood for artists/writers for not changing the status quo.Check out the threads referring to Netflix Iron Fist. There were a LOT of people arguing that making Danny Rand (a white character for 40 years) played by a white actor was incredibly racist and since it deals with martial arts and Asian themes... he should now be Asian
Because... reasons.
So yeah, there are people out there so intent on changing the status quo... that anyone else maintaining the status quo makes them a target.
Quotes please.
Looking at both the Iron Fist and part of the Daredevil thread where it came up, I saw mostly arguments for a white Danny Rand and a couple of very ambivalent could go either way posters.The closest was a claim that the Mighty Whitey trope is racist, which is certainly true, though actually handled pretty well in the comics.
I'm on a lot more forums then just this one, but here's a quick search
There was quite a firestorm when the series was announced with people on both sides of the debate.
The are a number of male Middle Eastern superheroes. They're pretty much all D listers though. Well, Doctor Fate is probably on the cup between B and C list.
As for villians, try Black Adam.
Black Adam is Middle Eastern? Huh, I always thought he was Caucasian because he seemed to be drawn that way. Well, at least we get one decent Middle Eastern villain who's not just "generic terrorist".
It's been a while since I read anything with Dr. Fate in it but the last one I saw was a Caucasian woman.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yep. There are two issues I see with all this: 1) There aren't enough A-list superheroes to go around. Every demographic can't possibly be represented, even if all comics ban white males from being superheroes ever again. How does a company choose who gets represented and who doesn't?
This is, without a shadow of a doubt, completely and utterly false.
The other issue I have is people seem to think prejudice is something only white males are capable of. Personally, I never gave a crap what someone's race/religion/sexual orientation is, when I pull up on scene all I care about is someone called 9-1-1 and needs help. I've worked in Latino neighborhoods, white ones, Asian ones, African-American ones, mixed ones. No matter what neighborhood I was in, alot of people would ask "Couldn't they have sent someone else??". Translation: "Couldn't they have sent someone of my race/ethnicity??". Every race is racist I'm sorry to say. I wish that wasn't the case, and I wish all this suspicion and hate didn't exist, but I can confirm it isn't limited to white people.
... I really don't see what "Non-white people are racist too!" has anything to do with this discussion.
And no one is certainty advocating that only people of a matching subset rescues them. The opposite. They're asking for repsentation. For people to acknowledge that they're human too, or at the very least also exist.
Sometimes I would get a look of fear from people when I'd pull up on scene and they'd see I'm of middle eastern descent. As if I'm suddenly going to explode. So I apologize to everyone if I offended you, but I do lose patience with how much importance people place on race/religion/gender, etc. To me it doesn't matter and everyone should be treated the same, but more and more I'm feeling like I'm alone in thinking that.
Probably because you've been advocating against that.
Also, newsflash. What a person is is very important to them. Especially after a lifetime of having the majority fear and hate them for such a simple as just existing.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Actually Rysky, you misunderstood me, I never said prejudice doesn't matter, and I certainly don't advocate for it. I get it thrown in my face all the time, so I definitely think it matters and I think it's wrong.
However, how many A-list heroes are there? Spider-Man, Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, X-Men...maybe a few more, but not many. Now, how many groups should have representation? Well, there are different ethnicities, genders, transgender, sexual orientations, religions...I'm just not seeing how each group can be represented by so few A-list heroes.
I agree that diversity is a good thing, and I would like to see a more diverse group of heroes, but I don't see how every group can be represented when the pool of A-list heroes is so small. Especially since people are exceptionally good at considering everyone else different from themselves.
I also don't see what's wrong with enjoying a character even though they are a different race/gender/religion than myself? I love Cap, Iron Man and Black Panther, and none of those heroes is a match for my ethnicity. I also love Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel and neither of them represent my gender either. The rhetoric is getting to be almost like I'm a traitor to my ethnicity/gender if I enjoy a superhero that's different from me.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Frankly, I don't think Thor would fall in love with anybody who wasn't worthy to wield the hammer.
Compared to someone who *chose* to be a nurse and help people for a living, Thor had to be cursed and punished to become a caregiver, which kind of makes it sound like Jane Foster was more worthy than Thor, back in the day. That has more to do with the strange comic-book logic of the curse (which generally seems to be okay with Thor being a temperamental jerk at times, but holds everyone else to an impossible standard of moral purity) than any sort of 'Jane is better than Thor' nonsense, IMO.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Though way back in the day when they were a couple, she got the chance to come to Asgard and get raised to a goddess herself and completely failed the test - mostly because A) Odin was being a jerk again and B) the writers wanted her out of the way.
Odin's a jerk that way. Jane isn't good enough. Sif isn't good enough. Thor would get zero action if Odin got to vet all of his girlfriends. :)
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Actually Rysky, you misunderstood me, I never said prejudice doesn't matter, and I certainly don't advocate for it. I get it thrown in my face all the time, so I definitely think it matters and I think it's wrong.
However, how many A-list heroes are there? Spider-Man, Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, X-Men...maybe a few more, but not many. Now, how many groups should have representation? Well, there are different ethnicities, genders, transgender, sexual orientations, religions...I'm just not seeing how each group can be represented by so few A-list heroes.
I agree that diversity is a good thing, and I would like to see a more diverse group of heroes, but I don't see how every group can be represented when the pool of A-list heroes is so small. Especially since people are exceptionally good at considering everyone else different from themselves.
I also don't see what's wrong with enjoying a character even though they are a different race/gender/religion than myself? I love Cap, Iron Man and Black Panther, and none of those heroes is a match for my ethnicity. I also love Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel and neither of them represent my gender either. The rhetoric is getting to be almost like I'm a traitor to my ethnicity/gender if I enjoy a superhero that's different from me.
You seem to be ignoring pretty much everything I'm saying or having your own version of the conversation so I don't really see a point in continuing this though I will say this, using a loaded term such as "A-list" is as sensationalist as it is pointless. What are the "A-list"? The ones you can name off the top of your head? The most well known? The best money makers?
How do you think they got to be that way?
Frankly, I don't think Thor would fall in love with anybody who wasn't worthy to wield the hammer.Compared to someone who *chose* to be a nurse and help people for a living, Thor had to be cursed and punished to become a caregiver, which kind of makes it sound like Jane Foster was more worthy than Thor, back in the day. That has more to do with the strange comic-book logic of the curse (which generally seems to be okay with Thor being a temperamental jerk at times, but holds everyone else to an impossible standard of moral purity) than any sort of 'Jane is better than Thor' nonsense, IMO.
My sister is a nurse and one of my friends is a paramedic... so I understand the idea of those type of people as 'heroic'. The only issue I have with that, is that they are also very common. There are thousands.... if not millions of caregivers and firefighters and police around the world.
I really don't want the hammer's 'worthiness' clause to be that easy to dodge around. I REALLY like the signature weapon that ONLY the main hero can use and nobody else can replace him.
YES, 'Whoever is Worthy' was ALWAYS a crappy metric to hold people up to. It was always vague especially tied in with a Viking/warrior culture and Thor's own personal faults... but there's a tradition there. Wherever the Hammer falls... it stays. I really don't want 'Well XXX is a good person' to be enough to lift it.
Rysky: Probably because those heroes are the oldest, I would imagine. None of those heroes is new. The whole debate going on is about well-established characters, that certainly didn't start with me. Nor did the term A-list. I'm also not sure how that qualifies as a loaded word, unless it has another meaning I'm not aware of, which is possible.
I don't mean to misrepresent your arguments either, I suppose I'm just not understanding them correctly. So, my apologies for that.
Frankly, I don't think Thor would fall in love with anybody who wasn't worthy to wield the hammer.Compared to someone who *chose* to be a nurse and help people for a living, Thor had to be cursed and punished to become a caregiver, which kind of makes it sound like Jane Foster was more worthy than Thor, back in the day. That has more to do with the strange comic-book logic of the curse (which generally seems to be okay with Thor being a temperamental jerk at times, but holds everyone else to an impossible standard of moral purity) than any sort of 'Jane is better than Thor' nonsense, IMO.
Mjolnir has always been pretty loyal once it chooses someone. It doesn't drop it's wielder to the curb the first time they do something wrong. Thor was never perfect and was always a bit of a hothead, but that was part of his charm. Perfection is dull.
There's obviously something very special about Jane, not just that she's a nurse, which is a worthy profession. However, being a nurse doesn't automatically make you a great person, I've known plenty of nurses who weren't.
Maybe it has to do with her fighting spirit, fighting through cancer and still helping people, as a nurse and now as Thor too.
What are the "A-list"? The ones you can name off the top of your head? The most well known? The best money makers?
How do you think they got to be that way?
That's actually a pretty good definition of A-list. A-list characters are the most well known the most popular, the most moneymakers... I would agree with all of that. The characters that regularly show up on little kids lunchboxes and backpacks and t-shirts
As for the second part... I would say years upon years of continual hard-core fandom. The idea that a brand new character will be A-list right out the gate... is unrealistic
Actually, that's an interesting question. We all know Captain America, Spider-man, Batman, Green Lantern, Flash.... Characters that have existed since the 40's-60's...
But who do people think would be the YOUNGEST A-lister out there? My first instinct is Wolverine? Punisher? Spawn?? Has anyone newer really made that extra step to really jump into the mainstream marketing machine and REALLY taken off? Even favorites like Ghost Rider or Ms. Marvel (any version) are still niche characters loved by specific fans... but they haven't made 'kindergarten backpack' status.
Youngest...Punisher is younger than Wolverine. I'm not sure about Spawn since I never collected that book, but I wanna say he's probably the youngest in that list.
Drah,
THAT was more of an accident than planned.
Apparantly that was the plan all along... by one of the Illuminati... to have the ship take the Hulk out to deep space and kill him there. What was unplanned was the landing.
They also exiled him to a crossroad dimension that led to many other places. They did this because he was full-on angry Hulk with no Banner.
I can't remember how he finally got back.
That one was just Strange. Hulk got back because Sasquatch did some interdimensional fishing and... caught a big one.
Apparantly that was the plan all along... by one of the Illuminati... to have the ship take the Hulk out to deep space and kill him there. What was unplanned was the landing.Drah,
THAT was more of an accident than planned.
Source?
Which Illuminati? That was never 'in character' for ANY of the those characters... ever. It's why the story was so dumb. Unless you're claiming it was Pre-Secret Invasion... and one was a Skrull, that could be legit, but still wouldn't have been any 'actual' Illuminati's fault.
Because again, Miek the bug monster ally of Hulk took the blame for that in the last issue of WWH. That whole world threatening
Miek reveals the explosion that started this war was not caused by the Illuminati, but by Red King loyalists. Miek chose not to prevent it, hoping the incident would encourage the Hulk to keep destroying.
I am more and more amused (read: aggravated) by the fact the meaning of pandering has changed to mean "stop reminding that those people are allowed to exist."
I'm more aggravated they had to kill Bruce like they did. At least the Illuminati TRIED to be humane about it.
I am more and more amused (read: aggravated) by the fact the meaning of pandering has changed to mean "stop reminding that those people are allowed to exist."I'm more aggravated they had to kill Bruce like they did. At least the Illuminati TRIED to be humane about it.
Murder is murder, humane or barbaric.
Phantom,
I was under the impression the rocket/spaceship suffered like some subtle engine failure that led to it eventually blowing up, not anything Miek or the others did.
Murder is murder, humane or barbaric.I am more and more amused (read: aggravated) by the fact the meaning of pandering has changed to mean "stop reminding that those people are allowed to exist."I'm more aggravated they had to kill Bruce like they did. At least the Illuminati TRIED to be humane about it.
Murder is murder, yes but they didn't put the damn thing on auto destruct when the damn thing TOOK off.
Which Illuminati? That was never 'in character' for ANY of the those characters... ever. It's why the story was so dumb. Unless you're claiming it was Pre-Secret Invasion... and one was a Skrull, that could be legit, but still wouldn't have been any 'actual' Illuminati's fault.It's not that far out of character for Reed Richards. Several variations of the Illuminati reveal that of the whole lot, he's got the greatest potential for sheer ruthlessness because of his certainty that he's the smartest person in the room, the certainty that he's always right.
Reed knows this about himself, which is why Doom's faking of his diary was that close to being successful, and only Susan figured it out.
Phantom,
I was under the impression the rocket/spaceship suffered like some subtle engine failure that led to it eventually blowing up, not anything Miek or the others did.
The ship suffered a failure which led to it's landing on Planet Hulk. It was Miek who found the destruct system and deliberately triggered it.
Which to me says that it wasn't NOT designed to automatically explode.