Which to me says that it wasn't NOT designed to automatically explode.
Presumably the idea was to have the ship explode if Banner emerged and tried to return to Earth.
If the Hulk couldn't get out of the ship, I don't see how changing back to Banner would be much different.
If the Hulk couldn't get out of the ship, I don't see how changing back to Banner would be much different.
Because Banner's a genius, and he'd find a way other than brute force.
That may be but if the ship was already to go, I don't see how opening a hatch would help Banner....
Phantom,
I was under the impression the rocket/spaceship suffered like some subtle engine failure that led to it eventually blowing up, not anything Miek or the others did.
As I remember the story... They shot Bruce off toward a perfectly peaceful empty planet where Bruce would finally get what he wanted... to be left alone.
Hulk got mad... Hulk Smashed the ship... Hulk landed on completely DIFFERENT planet then what was intended
Regardless of anything else... any malfunction was from angry hulk smashing a perfectly good spaceship.
I know HULK thought they tried to kill him with the explosion, and that set of the world war hulk story... but that same story had Miek come up and confess that they had nothing to do with it... it was the Red king loyalists and Miek that did it.
Regardless of anything else, nobody else portrayed as 'heroes' for years ever intended to murder the hulk in cold blood or any other way. It never made any sense to believe that. Even if the ship did have a self destruct, it would have been to strand hulk on planet peace... Since when was Hulk killable by simple explosions?
Totally Miek's doing in yet another overly contrived Marvel crossover event.
Yeah it was pretty contrived in the sense they could have just said "It was an error." or something like that.
It wouldn't necessarily LET the Illumati off the hook, but it would have provided some reasonable-ness to it.
Back in the day, Captain Omen had Hulk walking behind a submarine across the bottom of the sea. Apparently this went on for quite some time. It was never explained how Hulk got out of that one.
PH/WWH
- Hulk got hit with a Gamma Bomb that set him off on a rampage in Vegas, a bunch of people died.
- The Illuminati put Banner on a ship designed to take him to a planet with no intelligent life, Hulk went super duper rage and damaged the ship, knocking it off course and into a wormhole, resulting in him landing on planet Sakaar.
- Hulk led a slave revolt against the ruler of the planet, the Red King and became the new ruler of the world. Hulk became happy and content with his new Queen and a child on the way and showed mercy to the Red King's men.
- Red King loyalist turned the ship into a bomb in an attempt to kill the Hulk, the ship didn't even have a "self destruct", the Red King's people turned a damaged warp core into a bomb and sneaked it onto the ship.
- Hulk's ally, Miek, knows this is happening but says nothing, using it instead as a chance to frame the humans because he wants Hulk to return to his angry warrior ways rather than the peaceful king and husband he'd become.
Didn't Cho prove that Hulk had never killed anyone because Banner always subconciously kept him from doing so?
Yes, Cho's infamous Super Math line that seemingly directly contradicts the event that set the whole story in motion in the first place (but was written by a different writer, so Pak probably just ignored it).
The Gamma Bomb seemingly put Hulk into a near "mindless" state so if Cho meant that a "normal" angry Green Hulk has never killed an innocent thanks to Banner/Math, it wouldn't be a complete contradiction.
I feel like Fixit/Grey Hulk has killed people, but can't say for sure.
ETA: Basically Marvel goes back and forth whether innocent people have died from Hulk rampages with each different writer/editor. The only consistent is that Hulk never intentionally murders an innocent during a rampage.
Yes, Cho's infamous Super Math line that seemingly directly contradicts the event that set the whole story in motion in the first place (but was written by a different writer, so Pak probably just ignored it).
The Gamma Bomb seemingly put Hulk into a near "mindless" state so if Cho meant that a "normal" angry Green Hulk has never killed an innocent thanks to Banner/Math, it wouldn't be a complete contradiction.
I feel like Fixit/Grey Hulk has killed people, but can't say for sure.
ETA: Basically Marvel goes back and forth whether innocent people have died from Hulk rampages with each different writer/editor. The only consistent is that Hulk never intentionally murders an innocent during a rampage.
Yeah, That's one I can get behind. He never 'intentionally' kills innocents.
Hulk is one of those REALLY tricky characters to write as a 'hero'. When he's off in the desert fighting robots and tanks and abominations and such... that's pretty easy
However... artist love to show the Hulk just THRIVING in pure destruction. Hulk Smashing things bigger and louder and smashier then the issues before it.
To claim that at NO TIME did he EVER smash the wrong building? EVERY building he dropped was completely evacuated? Land on the wrong car? Cause a traffic accident? Even give some old lady a heart attack when he 3 mile jumped right in front of her?
That kind of comic book logic I have LOTS of trouble wrapping my head around. I mean... there was a REASON that Banner was terrified of the Hulk and how he would cut loose and leave destruction in his wake. It was so rare to really hear Banner actually DEFEND the Hulk and point out all the people he saved when and how he was completely safe. He was always scared of the 'monster'.
Hulk always struck me as lil' Godzilla. The biggest baddest monster of them all who you're just glad was pointed at the other monsters... or else EVERYONE would have died.
Gentle kind-hearted hulk is fine... but humans are REALLY squishy... and there is a LOT of shrapnel when he rips a car in half and throws it down the street.
It starts to become another mutant paradox. The entire US government and public is scared to death of the Hulk and do everything they can to kill/stop/cure him... but Ben Grimm is fine. Either there is a reason that they fear Banner... or there isn't.
Now I LOVE my heroes to be heroes, and to have a zero-kill rule at all times. Those are the books I like... But Hulk?? I See a big grey streak in his narrative that I really can't look past. Regardless of 'super-math'.
Like Phantom said, Hulk isn't a TRUE hero like some. He's just a destructive force of nature that the Avengers (and others) point and click towards bigger things.
To say he never injured innocent people in his rampages is kind of facetious. I accept that he never INTENTIONALLY killed people (like Hawkeye just did), but he's a destructive force is okay and within the character's...inner core.
But say he's a true hero is more than a little off the mark.
As for mutants and their place in the world of super powers...it's always been dodgey to me about how much fear should be generated by mutants. Some, like say, Genocide, are pretty much built to kill. But others, like say Triage or Elixir, clearly have the ability to help more than hinder. Coupled that with the Hulk himself and the various alien threats Earth 616 faces on daily basis (not including the magic threats, interdimensional threats, and just world ending stuff), does make me question the validity of people fearing mutants.
Especially now that the Inhumans are on the rise.
But again, it's all about perception and that's always subject to personal biases.
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As for mutants and their place in the world of super powers...it's always been dodgey to me about how much fear should be generated by mutants. Some, like say, Genocide, are pretty much built to kill. But others, like say Triage or Elixir, clearly have the ability to help more than hinder. Coupled that with the Hulk himself and the various alien threats Earth 616 faces on daily basis (not including the magic threats, interdimensional threats, and just world ending stuff), does make me question the validity of people fearing mutants.
The mutant thing is odd to me for several reasons.
Firstly, mutants have families and friends for all the years leading up to their first manifestation of mutant power / appearance (generally at puberty).
Other Marvel heroes come from races like the Atlanteans, Inhumans, Eternals, Asgardians, etc. who (generally) came from alien societies with no ties to humans or their myriad cultures.
Mystical heroes, like Dr. Strange, the Scarlet Witch, or, heaven forfend, the idiot who runs around with a pentagram tattoo on his chest and calls himself Son of Satan, would be *vastly* more controversial, in a country that is predominantly Christian and not terribly fond of witchcraft, let alone Satan. It only gets worse when there are figures that claim to be actual *gods,* like Thor and Hercules. One can try to pretend that they are just using those names, but there's been plenty of evidence over the years that there is a place called Asgard filled with immortal super-people who may have actually been worshipped as gods thousands of years ago (and, kind of still are, in the real world today). People would *freak out* over that sort of thing, far more than mutants, who, if anything, they'd probably be eager to 'cure,' since normalizing or mainstreaming is a popular choice to impose on people who aren't in the majority.
I'm an American male of Middle Eastern descent, and there has never been a superhero that represents me. In fact, there isn't even a decent villain that represents me. I'm always "generic terrorist getting punched in the face" in comics, or "generic terrorist getting shot in the face" in movies. Do I go on some kind of rampage accusing everyone of discrimination? Nope. Because I recognize none of these artists owes me anything, I can choose to spend my money on their work or I can choose not to.
Never heard of Black Adam, huh...?
Considering that Iron Fist's character was actually inspired by a Bruce Lee movie, and that he was was originally part of a big trend of "let's take ancient and dearly-held Japanese and Chinese traditions and give them to blond white guys to make them superheroes", yeah, there's a big difference between that controversy and the (largely nonexistent) people demanding Superman get racebent. It isn't a standard fandom reaction the way being outraged about an African-American Captain America is—it's a special case about a very particular hero with a complicated past. It was also a question of that 40-year old character being transferred to the movie industry, a place that has always really snubbed Asian-American actors and where a high-profile role for an Asian or Asian-American actor could be really beneficial.
I'm not saying I agree with those who have complained about it, but there's considerably more to it than "make this hero a minority because DIVERSITY".
I have noticed some people complaining that the current array of heroes has been overly homogeneous, but that's hardly news to anyone, surely. Maybe this is what HeHateMe is thinking of, though, since that attitude is considerably more common. I could see someone hearing "DC superheroes are too white" and misconstruing it as "we need to change the races of all the superheroes".
Also, this.
Yep. There are two issues I see with all this: 1) There aren't enough A-list superheroes to go around. Every demographic can't possibly be represented, even if all comics ban white males from being superheroes ever again. How does a company choose who gets represented and who doesn't?
Check out milestone comics.
Black Adam is Middle Eastern? Huh, I always thought he was Caucasian because he seemed to be drawn that way. Well, at least we get one decent Middle Eastern villain who's not just "generic terrorist".The are a number of male Middle Eastern superheroes. They're pretty much all D listers though. Well, Doctor Fate is probably on the cup between B and C list.
As for villians, try Black Adam.
Arabian Knight had a kickass storyline with Sabra a few years back. But he may be a REAL stereotype of a superhero.
One of the new Green Lanterns is Lebanise I think
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Arabian Knight had a kickass storyline with Sabra a few years back. But he may be a REAL stereotype of a superhero.
Sabra was pretty cool in her brief X-Men appearance during the Phalanx Covenant storyline.
I think they killed Arabian Knight off awhile back. But for Middle Eastern/Arabic heroes they've got Kamala Khan, the new Ms. Marvel, Dust/Sooraya an Afghan mutant who can turn into a living sandstorm, Monet St. Croix, an Algerian mutant who's about two powers away from being the Martian Manhunter (flight, strength, invulnerability, telepathy, super-speed, super-intelligence, possibly telekinesis...) and Faiza Hussein/Excalibur.
Not a lot of Middle Eastern *dudes* ('cause they all have scary eyebrows or something?) but they've got the hot super-ladies covered, I guess.
One of the new Green Lanterns is Lebanise I think
Simon Baz might be Lebanese descent, but not 100% sure. I am certain his family is Muslim for sure. He also uses a hand gun more than his ring for reasons I still can't figure out.
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One of the new Green Lanterns is Lebanise I thinkSimon Baz might be Lebanese descent, but not 100% sure. I am certain his family is Muslim for sure. He also uses a hand gun more than his ring for reasons I still can't figure out.
Supposedly he carries a gun 'in case the ring doesn't work.'
I dunno, having a character using a weapon that kind of depends on your willpower and self-confidence to work, carry a backup weapon, seems to undercut the entire premise...
On the other hand, I once read about a flying superhero who wore a parachute, because he was terrified of his flying power turning off or failing him, which, as someone who is afraid of heights, I 100% identified with. :)
One of the new Green Lanterns is Lebanise I thinkSimon Baz might be Lebanese descent, but not 100% sure. I am certain his family is Muslim for sure. He also uses a hand gun more than his ring for reasons I still can't figure out.
Seems to think the Ring isn't reliable. When it fails he wants the gun as a back-up piece
yeah it bugs me too but I guess the rings do run out of charges sometimesOnly just started reading about him with Rebirth so I don't know his full background. From what I can tell he got arrested on false Terrorism charges and while he was sitting in the interrogation room the Ring showed up and said "You've been drafted". Now the US Government has dropped the charges but they want him to fill them in on everything that goes on with the GL corps.
With REbrith they have partnered him up with Jessica as the GLs assigned to Earth and Hal is making them share a battery. To encourage teamwork and co-operation.
Sidenote
Hal and the GL Corps - Rebirth.....Oh My, Hal just changed the game
He made his own Ring.
Grey,
Yeah Hal did pretty much do the whole "Screw this green gauntlet thing, I'm going to use it to forge my own damn ring!"
Arabian Knight had a kickass storyline with Sabra a few years back. But he may be a REAL stereotype of a superhero.Sabra was pretty cool in her brief X-Men appearance during the Phalanx Covenant storyline.
I think they killed Arabian Knight off awhile back. But for Middle Eastern/Arabic heroes they've got Kamala Khan, the new Ms. Marvel, Dust/Sooraya an Afghan mutant who can turn into a living sandstorm, Monet St. Croix, an Algerian mutant who's about two powers away from being the Martian Manhunter (flight, strength, invulnerability, telepathy, super-speed, super-intelligence, possibly telekinesis...) and Faiza Hussein/Excalibur.
Not a lot of Middle Eastern *dudes* ('cause they all have scary eyebrows or something?) but they've got the hot super-ladies covered, I guess.
I know the first Arabian knight died, this is the second one. Apparently he is hot.
Grey,
Yeah Hal did pretty much do the whole "Screw this green gauntlet thing, I'm going to use it to forge my own damn ring!"
that struck me as incredibly dumb. The gauntlet was cooler, but whatever. Hal's gotta Hal.
That's pretty much it, Freehold.
Regarding Middle Eastern, really right now all we have is Kamala. Dust and Monet are pretty much non-factors outside of being Mutants. Not much has been see of Faiza Hussein/Exacalibur since Secret Wars.
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I know the first Arabian knight died, this is the second one. Apparently he is hot.
Huh, just reading up on the Arabian Knight, who had a bulletproof, fireproof, indestructible sash that could grow to forty feet long, which he wore as a belt (I guess, in case anyone tried to shoot him in the waist?).
Note to dead guy; wrap that forty foot 'belt' around your arms, chest, legs and head, fool! No wonder you died! (Not that a bulletproof costume would have saved him from the life-draining poop-mutant that killed him, but still!)
Regarding Middle Eastern, really right now all we have is Kamala. Dust and Monet are pretty much non-factors outside of being Mutants. Not much has been see of Faiza Hussein/Exacalibur since Secret Wars.
True. Although I *think* Monet is in a current X-peeps book (Uncanny X-Men), on a team with Magneto and other 'hardcore' X-folk (Sabertooth, Psylocke, Archangel). It's not one I read, so I'm not real sure about that. Given that it's basically another 'X-Force' type grim and grit fest, I imagine Monet's characterization will be about as well developed / important to the story as the color of Magneto's socks.
Pity about Dust (and the other 'New X-Men' not named 'She-Wolverine'), since we'll probably not see them again, unless they are being put on a bus and used as fodder for the next 'OMG, you killed a bunch of mutants!' angst-fest.
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Pity about Dust (and the other 'New X-Men' not named 'She-Wolverine'), since we'll probably not see them again, unless they are being put on a bus and used as fodder for the next 'OMG, you killed a bunch of mutants!' angst-fest.
I will NEVER forgive marvel for that.
Yeah that exploding mutant bus WAS pretty terrible.
Monet is in the other X-men camp but not sure I'm ready to call it X-force.
Avengers Unity Squad I might but not this bunch of X-men.
One of the new Green Lanterns is Lebanise I thinkSimon Baz might be Lebanese descent, but not 100% sure. I am certain his family is Muslim for sure. He also uses a hand gun more than his ring for reasons I still can't figure out.Supposedly he carries a gun 'in case the ring doesn't work.'
I dunno, having a character using a weapon that kind of depends on your willpower and self-confidence to work, carry a backup weapon, seems to undercut the entire premise...
On the other hand, I once read about a flying superhero who wore a parachute, because he was terrified of his flying power turning off or failing him, which, as someone who is afraid of heights, I 100% identified with. :)
The gun is for yellow things.
Or, to be more serious, since I know the stupid yellow thing was fixed with Parallax, I remember reading somewhere that the rings have various failsafe limitations built into them by the Oans. The gun is for when he disagrees with whatever limit the Guardians of the Universe have decided to impose on him.
Ross,
That may be but right now...THERE ARE NO GUARDIANS! Or at least if there are, they're like....5 of them left.
Ross,
That may be but right now...THERE ARE NO GUARDIANS! Or at least if there are, they're like....5 of them left.
I've seen about 3. Gathnet and his lady Syd(?) all dressed up in white and then some guy I don't know, dressed like a Time Bandit, being chased by a whole lot of folks and carrying a mystery box of mysteries.
Grey,
I thought there were two more but yes, Ganthet and Sayd are still alive. The Other one is one of the "older" Guardians from when the others released the First Lantern. I forget his name but he traveled with Kyle for a while.