Race points for 1 / 2 giant's Powerful Build ability

[Mark Carlson 255]

Can anyone give me the official or your best guess what the race point cost would be for the 1/2 giants Powerful Build racial ability is?
Thanks

MDC

[Menacing Shade of mauve]

Mark Carlson 255 wrote:

Can anyone give me the official or your best guess what the race point cost would be for the 1/2 giants Powerful Build racial ability is?

Thanks

MDC

What kinds of 4-point abilities is it most like, in your opinion?

[Valantrix1]

Its like being large without the drawbacks. Start there.

[Trekkie90909]

For those not in the know the half giant is from Dreamscarred Press's Psionics Unleashed, and predates the advanced race guide (with its race builder) by a good bit--if you want an official answer I'd move this inquiry to the 3rd party publisher advice and rules questions forum. If you want a best guess, then I'd suggest either advice or the homebrew/suggestions/houserules forum.

All that said, the original ability text:

D20 PFSRD wrote:

Powerful Build: The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for a Combat Maneuver Bonus or Combat Maneuver Defense (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature's special attacks based on size (such as grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefts of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category.

Anyhow, the ability is arguably slightly better than the "large" size category presented in the race builder which costs 7 rp because it grants almost all the bonuses, with none of the penalties of that ability. Based solely on that, I'd keep the cost around or slightly higher than 7 rp. On the other hand it doesn't have the size bonus/penalty to str/dex so perhaps a slight reduction to ~5 rp would be appropriate.

In any event there's no rules answer to this question, so I'm flagging it to be moved to a different forum.

[Narquelion]

the race builder isn't the most balanced system but I'd say it's about as good. Sure, it doesn't have the drawbacks, but I suspect that the RP cost for large is that high because it gives you access to reach, that by itself only costs a measly 1 RP. There is also the matter that for a big character with a humongous weapon Strength is probably more important than Dexterity, so the +2Str -2Dex from Large should be considered a bonus that Powerful Build lacks.

[Menacing Shade of mauve]

But I'd say 6 points if it gives you the +1 CMB +1 CMD a large creature would get, 4 points without it.

[Mark Carlson 255]

Thanks for the replies.
I was torn as to if I should post it here or in another forum and I do not like to double post but I think I will also ask there.

I also agree with both of you that I thought it would be in the 3-6 (but could see a argument for 2 as you do not get any stat adj.) range but looking at the racial build rules if I had created them I would have definitely priced quite a few differently.

I am going to be making some custom races for the Giant Slayer path as an option for players to use and I wanted to have some other non human races (1/2 elf-1/2 giant, etc) have the powerful build racial ability. And provide some other benefit to the players who do not take that racial option.

Thanks Again.
MDC

[Gilfalas]

I posted the same question just after the race builder came out and in our home game my GM and I decide that it was 6 points. It has not been any real issue since I was already playing the half giant in her game before the book came out. It was just nice to see it point valued close to the other races already with me in that game.

It did result in me getting a nice chunk of XP back since she decide I was not longer a +1 LA race compared to the other players but that was a home rule.

[Cyrad]

Large Build would be an Advanced trait.

Paying attention to tiers is usually more important than figuring out RP costs since the value of traits usually cannot be equated numerically. What might seem reasonable for a high powered race could be broken compared to standard races even if the two races have the same RP.

[Knight Magenta]

Large gives reach, powerful build does not. 90% of the reason you take large is for the increased natural reach.

Powerful build gives +1 CMB/CMD, +1-2 damage.

It could get silly with some size stacking shenanigans, but that is fixed by treating powerful build as a virtual size increase, thus not stacking with any other such size increases.

This bonus looks a lot like getting +2 strength. except +2 strength also gives you +1 to hit and stacks with more things.

Advanced strength is worth 4 points, thus I would put Powerful Build at 2-3 points.