So I have been looking around for some rules regarding familiars. More specifically I have been looking up rules for the Mauler Archetype. Want to ask a few questions about them for clarification.
1. Tiny Mauler Archetype creatures gain +6 Strength and -2 Dexterity when they become Medium size using the Shape change, right?
2. Maulers gain benefit from taking Toughness and you taking Mawulers Toughness? Do they gain benefit for you taking toughness?
3. I am assuming that the Chosen One class cannot select Mauler because it specifically says Emmessary?
Now that the basic questions are done, time to ask other questions on how to Monkey around with Familiars....
1. Can Monkeys use weapons and armor like normal? If they can, do they take a penalty? Do I have to take an armor proficiency feat to do this?
2. Do feats gained from Bonus skills count for Eldritch Guardian, namely the the Half Elf ancestrial arms trait?
3.Do armor and weapons resize when a weapon transforms into Medium Size?
4. Are there any other Familiars with grabing hands that can use weapons?
5. Would it be better to fo for a Natural Attack focused Familiar?
6. If I take the Familiar Evolution feat, can I turn a bird into a Flying Monkey by giving it Arms, like from the Wizard of Oz? Or would that go against Flavor rules?
7. What creatures benefit from the Maulers strength the most, and how creepy would they be giving them a pair of Arms to use weapons?
1. Yes. You use the polymorph chart and add an additional +4 str and -2 dex.
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2. A familiar's hp is half of their master's.
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3. Correct.
You can take several archetypes as long as they don't modify the same abilities, but Mauler/Emissary does both modifiy 'Deliver Touch Spells'.
3 questions down, 7 to go. Lol
Except I still want to know if the Familiar can take toughness. And if it stacks if the player has Maulers Toughness. An extra 3.5 heth per level is really good if all 3 stack.
Monkey:
1. All animals have access to the Barding item slot, namely armor. Your monkey would wear armor in the same way a wizard can wear a full plate. It can do so with a penalty.
But if you are an eldritch guardian, your familiar is granted your combat feats. Armor proficiencies are given as bonus combat feats, so your monkey would then be able to wear armor without penalty.
Edit: A FAQ states that that this is not the case. Armor Proficiency is not granted as bonus feats.
Weapon proficiency is not granted as bonus feats, but you can grant your familiar proficiency by taking feats. If you don't want to waste one of your own feats on proficiency, you can take this feat and grant your familiar proficiency while you get weapon focus.
I think there was a FAQ that said that familiars can't use weapons at all, so I'll have to see if that one exists.
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2. The half elf ancestral arms racial trait grants you a proficiency feat (which is a combat feat), so your familiar would also be granted this.
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3. Yes.
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4. Other than improved familiars, I don't believe there is any other familiar with hands.
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5. Depends. If you yourself go the natural attack route then it is better, no question about it.
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6. If you take the evolved familiar feat and grant your bird arms, then it is a bird with arms. Not a Flying Monkey, which is another creature.
Edit: Dresdan pointed out that this cannot be done, as Limbs is a two-point evolution.
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7. Welp
Your second half:
1) They do not have any proficiency unless you take the feats. The good news is that if you want an exotic weapon or are eyeing one you can get the Exotic Weapon Proficiency and it will become proficient.
2) Ancestral Arms is an alternate racial ability that grants proficiency, so your familiar should not be able to benefit from it even though you might become proficient in an exotic weapon (because you do not have the feat, its like a class knowing martial weapons). Ignore this, I mistook the wording to be more like the Military Tradition alternate racial ability for humans, which just grants you proficiency. Ancestral Arms gives you the actual feats.
3) As it is a polymorph effect I believe it does, as your armor and arms change to match your size with the Form of Giant spells.
4)Not too sure. Improved Familiars have a slew of creatures with hands, however improved familiars cannot be obtained unless you have Speak With Animals of Your Kind. Mauler replaces that ability, so a Mauler cannot become one.
5) Depends on what you go for, really, and what natural attacks you have.
6) Limbs are a two-point evolution and said feat prevents you from obtaining evolutions that cost more than one point.
7) Fox is generally the most used, however there is a famous build involving a "battle chicken". Can't remember the name of it right now but I am sure if you search Pathfinder Battle Chicken you will find it eventually.
I have been ninja'd, yaaarrrgh.
3 questions down, 7 to go. Lol
Except I still want to know if the Familiar can take toughness. And if it stacks if the player has Maulers Toughness. An extra 3.5 heth per level is really good if all 3 stack.
The familiar has half the master's total hit points (not including temporary hit points), rounded down, regardless of its actual Hit Dice.
I believe this is a hard cap, so a familiar with toughness would still have only half their master's hp.
Honestly the last time I looked into some of this stuff there was a lot of endless debates and not a lot of answers, so take everything everyone says (including my own) with a pinch of salt.
@Dresdan
Some half-elves receive training in an unusual weapon. Half-elves with this racial trait receive Exotic Weapon Proficiency or Martial Weapon Proficiency with one weapon as a bonus feat at 1st level. This racial trait replaces the adaptability racial trait.
Elves are proficient with longbows (including composite longbows), longswords, rapiers, and shortbows (including composite shortbows), and treat any weapon with the word “elven” in its name as a martial weapon.
It does actually grant them the combat feat, and not simply proficiency.
Ah, I think I'm thinking of Military Tradition. That one gives you proficiency but not the feats.
Prerequisites: Light Armor Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency.
Benefit: See Armor Proficiency, Light.
Normal: See Armor Proficiency, Light.
Special: Fighters and paladins automatically have Heavy Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat. They need not select it.
I base my answer to the first (monkey) question on the armor proficiency feats, which actually states that they are granted as bonus feats.
Weapon proficiencies from a class are not bonus feats, however.
Edit: A FAQ states that the last sentence of the feat is, infact, completely wrong. Armor Proficiency is not granted as bonus feats.
FAQ quoted down below.
Prerequisites: Light Armor Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency.
Benefit: See Armor Proficiency, Light.
Normal: See Armor Proficiency, Light.
Special: Fighters and paladins automatically have Heavy Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat. They need not select it.
I base my answer to the first (monkey) question on the armor proficiency feats, which actually states that they are granted as bonus feats.
Weapon proficiencies from a class are not bonus feats, however.
Like I said, those feats have been debated.
Fighter: "Can I learn a new fighter bonus feat in place of one of my armor proficiency feats?"
No. Despite wording in the Armor Proficiency feats, fighters (and other classes) have a class ability that grants proficiency in those armors--it doesn't actually grant those specific feats. Therefore, the fighter's ability to learn a new feat in place of another feat does not apply to these proficiencies.
Huh, well that settles it then.
Gonna edit my previous post.
New question. Can I take the feat if I am already proficient with said armor?
New question. Can I take the feat if I am already proficient with said armor?
Does it say you can take it multiple times? Otherwise I'm fairly certain that because you have it already you cannot take it as a feat.
Oh, a good thing to know is that Scent is a one point evolution. With pheremone arrows you can add a +2 to damage and to hit against enemies you mark with said arrows, if you have scent. It essentially provides a buff to creatures that attack the target if said creatures have scent.
I don't think there is a way to grant your familiar armor proficiency with your share-combat-feats-ability, so it should be easier to buy a Mithral Chain Shirt for +4 armor without any penalty.
So I have been looking around for some rules regarding familiars. More specifically I have been looking up rules for the Mauler Archetype. Want to ask a few questions about them for clarification.
1. Tiny Mauler Archetype creatures gain +6 Strength and -2 Dexterity when they become Medium size using the Shape change, right?
Correct.
2. Maulers gain benefit from taking Toughness and you taking Mawulers Toughness? Do they gain benefit for you taking toughness?
Familiars don't benefit from toughness, but they do get more HP if their master takes toughness as the master has more HP.
3. I am assuming that the Chosen One class cannot select Mauler because it specifically says Emmessary?
Correct, now if they stacked then you'd be okay, but since they don't you can't be both.
Now that the basic questions are done, time to ask other questions on how to Monkey around with Familiars....
1. Can Monkeys use weapons and armor like normal? If they can, do they take a penalty? Do I have to take an armor proficiency feat to do this?
Talk to your GM. For PFS animals never can use weapons.
2. Do feats gained from Bonus skills count for Eldritch Guardian, namely the the Half Elf ancestrial arms trait?
Any combat feat.
3.Do armor and weapons resize when a weapon transforms into Medium Size?
Yes, part of the rules for spells that the ability says it uses.
4. Are there any other Familiars with grabing hands that can use weapons?
5. Would it be better to go for a Natural Attack focused Familiar?
Could be easier.
6. If I take the Familiar Evolution feat, can I turn a bird into a Flying Monkey by giving it Arms, like from the Wizard of Oz? Or would that go against Flavor rules?
If it's a valid choice then you're able to. Now since you only get 1-point evolutions and limbs is a 2-pt evolution you can't take it to gain arms.
7. What creatures benefit from the Maulers strength the most, and how creepy would they be giving them a pair of Arms to use weapons?
pipe foxes, king crabs, foxes are the primary ones I hear about for mauler familiars.
Okay, so we have those questions answeres... I learned a lot about familiars.
So I know you can share Combat feats with Familiars, which 99% of Teamwork Feats are. My question now is, is there a way to share Combat or Teamworkfeats with an Animal Companion? I can just imagine a level 5 character with three forms of Aid another dancing through the party while handing out bonus AC or bonus To Hit.
Lol
Play a hunter or Sacred Huntsmaster inquisitor. At level 3 they grant their animal companion all their teamwork feats.
A valet familiar also gets all your teamwork feats.
Now that opens another question...
Valet, or Mauler and Eldrich Fighter?
Mauler would give me better threat range, and Valet would force me into one of 3 choices. On the other hand, Valet lets me skip 2 levela of foghter...
Why must you give me choices?!
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Play a hunter or Sacred Huntsmaster inquisitor. At level 3 they grant their animal companion all their teamwork feats.
A valet familiar also gets all your teamwork feats.
This is probably your best bet if you're looking for a combat animal. Is there a particular reason you're focused on doing this with a familiar? If you go for an animal companion, you can get an ape, which will be a lot tougher than a little monkey familiar.
Talk to your GM. For PFS animals never can use weapons.Now that the basic questions are done, time to ask other questions on how to Monkey around with Familiars....
1. Can Monkeys use weapons and armor like normal? If they can, do they take a penalty? Do I have to take an armor proficiency feat to do this?
Is that manufactured weapons, or is a monkey unable to pick up a rock and throw it at someone?
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The way to get the most powerful combat animal is to build a Druidzilla character and take the Leadership Feat. Now the PC will be the Allosaurus, Triceratops, or the Warcat, and the Cohort will be the rider!This is probably your best bet if you're looking for a combat animal. Is there a particular reason you're focused on doing this with a familiar? If you go for an animal companion, you can get an ape, which will be a lot tougher than a little monkey familiar.Play a hunter or Sacred Huntsmaster inquisitor. At level 3 they grant their animal companion all their teamwork feats.
A valet familiar also gets all your teamwork feats.
Ok, I'll take your word for it.
My point was that turning a familiar into a combat animal is less efficient than just going with a class that gets a companion animal, if all you're looking for is a fighting critter. There are sometimes reasons why somebody would want to do this with a familiar, so I'd be curious to know the OP's reasoning. But it does sound like most of what he wants to do would be easier if he just went Hunter or Huntmaster and stuck to an AC.
Is that manufactured weapons, or is a monkey unable to pick up a rock and throw it at someone?Talk to your GM. For PFS animals never can use weapons.Now that the basic questions are done, time to ask other questions on how to Monkey around with Familiars....
1. Can Monkeys use weapons and armor like normal? If they can, do they take a penalty? Do I have to take an armor proficiency feat to do this?
I found the FAQ, it was manufactured weapons.
So a natural weapon/improvised weapon build would have good synergy with the eldritch guardian familiar.
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That's why I asked. There are sometimes reasons to do things the weird way, even if the normal way can get you something similar.
Coincidentally, I have a druid with the Monkey domain, to get a monkey familiar, instead of just going with an animal companion. But in my case, I didn't want a combat animal.
7) Fox is generally the most used, however there is a famous build involving a "battle chicken". Can't remember the name of it right now but I am sure if you search Pathfinder Battle Chicken you will find it eventually.
You are referring to the "Embassy" = "MBC" = "Mighty Battle Cock".
Great critter, that.
/cevah
Thanks for the help guys. As per why I wanted this, I wanted a Medium Sized Familiar that can threaten a 5ft area along with an animal companion to get AoO off the wazo and bodyguard aid another everyone.
But its hard understanding the rules for Familiars because they are so vague.
One thing is, I am trying to get this PFS legal. Lol.
It really isn't that tough to pull off an animal companion + familiar build, especially if Variant Multiclassing is available. As Fromper said though, you won't be allowed to use both creatures in the same PFS scenario (though you could choose to bring along whichever one you think would serve you better based on the other PCs present for the adventure at hand)
Darn... PFS feels like they are taking a llot away form my ideas. Oh well, thanks for the help none the less.
I might make an Eldrich Guard with a fox that transforms like Kilala.
Eldritch Guard seems pretty cool and might get me to take some Fighter levels in my next generation of PCs. I'd probably go with the king crab instead of the fox since I like grappling and the crab gets a +4 to grapple from Grab and gives the master a +2. On the other hand, a Mauler could also make a good mount for a Small PC, and that could make the various flying, swimming, and climbing familiars worth considering.
Riding around on a man-sized peacock also might be good for laughs. I guess that a "boxing kangaroo" style wallaby might be amusing too, especially if you decided to move to a home game and get a crocodile animal companion to go along with it. On a related note, I think that the human "Eye for Talent" trait can give multiple animal companions and familiars +2 to an ability score.
The idea I had was a Fox familiar and taking Undersized Mount to let my human ride the creature. I believe the young Vixen would have 18 strength at level 3 (9 base + 4 polymorph + 2 Mauler Size +1 Mauler Level + 2 Eye for Talent).
Human would be young I feel and be about 155 lbs or 175 lbs. Probably medium armor or light armor. Total weight shouldnt be higher than 200 to 250.
Foxes max medium weight is 300 lbs (200 score * 1.5 Quad speciea). So they should make an exceptable undersized mount.
Is there any way to give Kirara a fire element or multiple tails or flying?
Another interesting option offered by the Crab is if you take levels in Beast Bonded Witch. Beast Bonded Witches can polymorph into creatures like their familiars. If you have a Crab Familiar, you can polymorph into Vermin.
The Beast-Bonded Witch archetype refers specifically to Animals.
Familiar Form (Sp): At 8th level, a beast-bonded witch may take the shape of her familiar (or a giant version of her familiar or a similar kind of animal) as if using beast shape II. For example, a witch with a rat familiar can turn into a Tiny rat, Small dire rat, or a larger rodent; one with a cat familiar can turn into a Tiny cat or a Large feline such as a tiger or lion; one with a monkey familiar can turn into a Tiny monkey or a Large gorilla, and so on. The witch can remain in animal form for a number of minutes per day equal to her level. This ability replaces the witch's 8th-level hex.
New question. Can I use my Familiar as a Mount? Do I require a feat or item to ride my Fox Maulet Familiar?
Is that manufactured weapons, or is a monkey unable to pick up a rock and throw it at someone?Talk to your GM. For PFS animals never can use weapons.Now that the basic questions are done, time to ask other questions on how to Monkey around with Familiars....
1. Can Monkeys use weapons and armor like normal? If they can, do they take a penalty? Do I have to take an armor proficiency feat to do this?
I found the FAQ, it was manufactured weapons.
So a natural weapon/improvised weapon build would have good synergy with the eldritch guardian familiar.
Actually, that's not quite right. The FAQ actually states:
Animal companions of any type may not use manufactured weapons.So that bit applies to animal companions but not familiars.
That being said, generally only humanoids (body type) can wield weapons. Monkeys may have hands which are more similar to human's than most mammals, but per the game they are still animals and cannot wield them properly. (unless you find a lenient GM)
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Note that that FAQ is pretty badly written and is a continuous source of pain for me. (for example, it actually bans the use of wands on all familiars despite a certain forum thread) I've petitioned to get it updated many times without success.
I've had it explained to me that that FAQ is also refering to familiars in that sentence, but the opposite can also be argued for.
So which FAQ is it that I'm looking for? Could you link, please?
I think that a fox should be an acceptable mount for a Small PC or a Medium one with the Undersized Mount feat. I guess that the crab might be slightly more controversial though I could certainly imagine sitting on the top of the shell. Remember that you'll take a -5 penalty on Ride checks unless you fit the familiar with a saddle or maybe take Trick Riding.
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Regarding familiars and weapons, normal familiars can't use weapons not designed for them (Not customized weapons, but the original weapon designed for your creature type. Horseshoes for horses, in example).
Some of the improved familiars can use normal weapons.
I think that a fox should be an acceptable mount for a Small PC or a Medium one with the Undersized Mount feat. I guess that the crab might be slightly more controversial though I could certainly imagine sitting on the top of the shell. Remember that you'll take a -5 penalty on Ride checks unless you fit the familiar with a saddle or maybe take Trick Riding.
An undersized mount is a mount of equal size to the rider. So a medium familiar is an undersized mount to a medium character. This is explained in the feat description.
A normal size mount is one size larger than the rider.
A Fox is tiny, so it doesn't qualify as an undersized mount for a small or medium character.
As an aside, carry weight is determined by size, legs, and strength. A fox has a base strength of 9, and is a quadruped of tiny size. So the light load is 3/4ths that of a normal creature with strength 9.
Light load is 22.5lbs, medium is 45lbs, and heavy load is 60lbs.
The random weight of a male halfling is 32-38lbs. Females are 5lbs less.
So looking at a medium load for your fox familiar to be ridden by the halfling, and that's without any gear.
An undersized mount is a mount of equal size to the rider. So a medium familiar is an undersized mount to a medium character. This is explained in the feat description.
A normal size mount is one size larger than the rider.
A Fox is tiny, so it doesn't qualify as an undersized mount for a small or medium character.
As an aside, carry weight is determined by size, legs, and strength. A fox has a base strength of 9, and is a quadruped of tiny size. So the light load is 3/4ths that of a normal creature with strength 9.
Light load is 22.5lbs, medium is 45lbs, and heavy load is 60lbs.
The random weight of a male halfling is 32-38lbs. Females are 5lbs less.
So looking at a medium load for your fox familiar to be ridden by the halfling, and that's without any gear.
Sorry, I had assumed the whole thread was read when asking the question lol. It was specifically for Eldritch Guardian with a Fox Familiar Mauler Archetype. Something lile He-Man and "By the power of Greyskull!" but also like Kirara from Inuyasha.
Now all a I need to do is get a cute fox picture. Still debating on which Shaman Aspect I would take on it.
Thank you all for your help everyone. I will be making a thread in Advice tonight regarding the specific build for the concept. Have fun all!
Yes, I too assumed that since the entire thread was about Mauler familiars which grow to Medium size the question about mounts would be too. Eidolons have a special "Mount" evolution to make them suitable mounts. Animal companions can learn some relevant tricks. I don't think there's anything similar to either of those for familiars. I'd assume that means you can Ride them. I suppose some DMs might assume that it means you can't though.
It seems like we're using the word "assume" a lot here. Since Mauler familiars seem pretty popular now maybe there would be a chance of getting a FAQ regarding whether PCs can Ride appropriately sized familiars (which could also come up with a Pig or Goat and Undersized Mount even without the Mauler archetype)
If there aren't any specific rules I guess table variation could ensue...