Hello there
I'm working on a duelist build for a future home game. The stats, for an Elven character with a 15 point buy looks like that for now:
STR: 7 DEX: 19 COS: 12 INT: 16 WIS : 10 CHA : 7
I've been working on 2 build for now:
1)Lore Warden Fighter 7/Duelist X
2)Unchained Rogue 3/Weapon Master Fighter 3/ Duelist X
Detailed Feat for the first:
Figh01 Weapon Finesse, Weapon focus (rapier)
Figh02 Combat Expertise(free), Fencing Grace
Figh03 Piranha Strike
Figh04 Dodge
Figh05 Mobility
Figh06 Improved Unharmed Strike
Figh07 Crane style
Duel01
Duel02 Crane Wings
Duel03
Duel04 Combat Reflexes(free), Crane Riposte
ecc ecc
Detailed Feat for the second:
URog01 Weapon Finesse(free) Dodge
URog02 Rogue Talent(probably Mobility)
URog03 Dex-to-Damage(rapier), Piranha Strike
Figh01 Weapon Focus(rapier)
Figh02 Improved Unharmed Strike, Crane Style
Figh03
figh04 Crane Wings, Weapon Specialization or Advanced Weapon Train
Duel01
Duel02 Crane Riposte
Duel03
Duel04 Combat Reflexes
ecc ecc
Now my thought on the builds:
1)The main appeal for me here is adding alla the INT skill as class skills, while getting 7 skill point at lvl 1, and some useful abilities like Know Thy Enemy and +4 to CMB and CMD
2) Here we have 11 skill point at lvl 1, but less knowledge check as class skill and when we take the fighters lvl i have only 5 point. But 2d6 Sneak Damage might be good, and free dex to damage and weapon finesse free up feat slot for weapon specialization or AWT.
Any suggestion will be really appreciated, thank you in advance :D
that's one hell of a problem. I guess i could start with 9 str and 16 dex, so i'll get to a 30 pounds light load.
there are some ways to work around this, i plan to wear bracers of armor later in the Adventure, but in the early levels i can make it work i guess
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Pirahana Strike not in Paizo PRD, which is a bit confusing, but it is from the Sargava book, not a hardcover.
Pertinent:
Prerequisites: Weapon Finesse, base attack bonus +1.Benefit: When wielding a light weapon, you can choose to take a -1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (-50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and for every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by -1 and the bonus on damage rolls increases by +2. You must choose to use this feat before the attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage. This feat cannot be used in conjunction with the Power Attack feat.[/b]
Simple:
Light Melee WeaponsBattle aspergillum 5 gp 1d4 1d6 ×2 — 4 lbs. B See text
Brass knuckles 1 gp 1d2 1d3 ×2 — 1 lb. B Monk, see text
Cestus 5 gp 1d3 1d4 19–20/×2 — 1 lb. B or P Monk, see text
Dagger 2 gp 1d3 1d4 19–20/×2 10 ft. 1 lb. P or S —
Gauntlet 2 gp 1d2 1d3 ×2 — 1 lb. B —
Light mace 5 gp 1d4 1d6 ×2 — 4 lbs. B —
Punching dagger 2 gp 1d3 1d4 ×3 — 1 lb. P —
Sickle 6 gp 1d4 1d6 ×2 — 2 lbs. S Trip
Spiked gauntlet 5 gp 1d3 1d4 ×2 — 1 lb. P —
Wooden stake
Martial:
Butterfly sword (2) 20 gp 1d3 1d4 19–20/×2 — 1 lb. S Monk
Dogslicer 8 gp 1d4 1d6 19–20/×2 — 1 lb. S Fragile
Gladius 15 gp 1d4 1d6 19–20/×2 — 3 lbs. P or S Performance
Handaxe 6 gp 1d4 1d6 ×3 — 3 lbs. S —
Iron brush 2 gp 1d2 1d3 ×2 10 ft. — P —
Jutte 8 gp 1d4 1d6 ×2 — 1 lb. B Disarm, monk
Kerambit 2 gp 1d2 1d3 ×3 — — S —
Kukri 8 gp 1d3 1d4 18–20/×2 — 2 lbs. S —
Light hammer 1 gp 1d3 1d4 ×2 20 ft. 2 lbs. B —
Light pick 4 gp 1d3 1d4 ×4 — 3 lbs. P —
Light shield 9 gp 1d2 1d3 ×2 — Special B —
Lungchuan tamo 5 gp 1d3 1d4 ×2 10 ft. 1 lb. P or S Monk
Sap 1 gp 1d4 1d6 ×2 — 2 lbs. B Nonlethal
Shang gou 6 gp 1d3 1d4 ×2 — 1 lb. S Disarm or trip, monk
Shortsword 10 gp 1d4 1d6 19–20/×2 — 2 lbs. P —
Spiked armor +50 gp 1d4 1d6 ×2 — Special P —
Spiked light shield +50 gp 1d3 1d4 ×2 — Special P —
Starknife 24 gp 1d3 1d4 ×3 20 ft. 3 lbs. P —
Throwing axe 8 gp 1d4 1d6 ×2 10 ft. 2 lbs. S —
Tonfa 1 gp 1d4 1d6 ×2 — 1 lb. B Blocking, monk
Wushu dart 2 sp 1d2 1d3 ×2 10 ft. — P Monk
Notably, Rapier is not a light weapon, so you'll have to choose something else.
@psionichamster: Notably, you are right: using a Shortsword is pretty much the same, but even changing the feat is a possibility. Any suggestion?
@Imbicatus: I don't like PC that use Charisma and deeds in general. Maybe a SwashBuckler would be as effective, or even more effective then my Pc but i really don't like it
You can't use Fencing Grace with a shortsword, but you can use Slashing Grace with a gladius. Or, Effortless Lace will solve the Piranha Strike issue with a one-handed weapon as well. Depending on how much damage you do without it, Piranha Strike may not really be all that useful anyhow.
As far as Swashbuckler goes, you don't actually need any charisma. You can totally dump charisma and just take Extra Panache once, and it's the same as having 16CHA. Really, you can build a character with only one level of Swashbuckler and no charisma, and then create anything else you want with a dueling fighting style while just using the parry/riposte deed.
Personally, if I was going to use the Duelist PRC, I'd probably be going with Sacred Fist of Sarenrae 4 to pick up the ability to flurry a scimitar with Dervish Dance and Crusader's Flurry, plus swift-action Divine Favor with Fate's Favored and Magical Knack to make it a +3 to attack and damage. Dervish Dance lets you get dex-to-damage that still works with flurry of blows, and flurry is a huge asset. You can move into Duelist with 4 levels of Sacred Fist and 3 levels of Weapon Master, and end up with Weapon Training + Gloves of Dueling + Divine Favor giving you +6 to attack and damage. The fact that Sacred Fist requires not wearing armor is pretty much a non-issue when just 12WIS and 4 levels of Sacred Fist grants +2AC without any DEX cap.
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TBH, I played a Fighter/Duelist to great effect. It was a one-shot PC I used to sit in on a game, so I started at higher level, but it still worked quite nicely.
An Agile weapon solves the dex-to-damage, and you're basically left with Dex & Int as required stats.
Elf is very strong, for race selections. If you can afford it, get 13 str & just power attack with that rapier - nothing says you can't do that.
Fighters get all kinds of static damage boosts, which get multiplied in on those lovely critical hits, and you're going to want to fish for crits with this PC.
Flurry & Full-Attack actions in general are good and all, but don't really fit with the flavor of the class, especially since your parry/riposte go off your AoO's, rather than your iterative attacks in general.
Effortless Lace is not allowed in Society play. IMO for good reason.
My opinion is that the best lead in to a Duelist is Swashbuckler. If you want to dip a bit for arcane Kensai Magus is pretty good too. I am currently playing a Swashigator (Investibuckler?) and that is actually very strong as well.
Flurry & Full-Attack actions in general are good and all, but don't really fit with the flavor of the class, especially since your parry/riposte go off your AoO's, rather than your iterative attacks in general.
The Duelist PRC can't parry anything without making a full attack and then giving up one of the attacks, which makes their entire parry/riposte mechanic and its flavor completely dependent on full attacks and makes iterative attacks and extra attacks the only way they can deal direct damage while using their parry. Having Flurry of Blows straight-up cancels out the loss of an attack for Parry, and I can't imagine why lightning-fast attacks wouldn't fit a "swordmaster" theme.
Probably because that is how the Swashbuckler works. Swashbuckler is really just the Duelist PrC fixed to work without sacrificing your iterative attacks and to be playable from 1-20 instead of forcing you to get useless feats to qualify for a PrC.Hmm...good point. Dunno why I misremembered that.
Pretty much. INT to AC and Elaborate Defense can stock some nice added AC at least.
The easiest way to use Duelist Parry is probably through taking basic Two-Weapon Fighting and wielding an offhand dagger for the sole purpose of giving up the attack, but now that dex-to-damage doesn't play well with TWF it's not so simple. Still, Agile Weapon or Unchained Rogue 3 (or even Elven Battle Style I guess) can make that all work.
Woah, first of all thank you all for those suggestion.
Why Sacred Fist and not a Monk? Maybe a Weapon Adept Quiggong Monk? At 4 lvl you'll gain a ki pool and you can replace slow fall with barskin for more defense.
Or maybe a master of many style, combining Elven and Crane style, addind int instead of dex to damage?
Still the power attacking rapier looks like a solid (and very simple, which is a plus) choice. Still getting to 13 STR might be a bit of a problem, in a 15 point buy as we usually play. It means dropping WIS, which put our trash Will save to the bottom of hell..
Why Sacred Fist and not a Monk?
Using Flurry of Blows with a scimitar requires Crusader's Flurry with a deity who has scimitar as a favored weapon. Crusader's Flurry requires having both Flurry of Blows and Channel Energy, which the Sacred Fist gets both of by level 4. Sacred Fist also gets the ability to cast Divine Favor on themselves with a quick action, and the traits Fate's Favored and Magical Knack on a level 4 Sacred Fist mean that Divine Favor is cast as if you had 6 levels of Sacred Fist (+2 attack and damage), and then Fate's Favored adds 1 to all luck bonuses so it's a +3. So Sacred Fist 4 means a big, easy to use combat buff plus the ability to flurry a scimitar with Dervish Dance, and Dervish Dance makes a scimitar work with all Duelist features.