Hi all,
Adowyn has a power that says, "At the start of your turn, you may search your deck or your discard pile for a cohort (or a card that has the animal trait) and put it into your hand, then recharge a card.
Can this ability be used as many times per turn as she wishes?
I apologize since I know this has been discussed, but I'm having issues finding the pertinent threads.
Thanks a lot.
Paraphrasing from page 9 of the WotR rulebook: "A card or power can only be used once per check or step, or (if it says it happens each time something happens) once per time it happens." (Paraphrasing because it's talking in terms of playing cards after having explained that using a power is the same as playing a card, and I'm smushing it down.)
So you can use it once at the start of your turn.
Paraphrasing from page 9 of the WotR rulebook: "A card or power can only be used once per check or step, or (if it says it happens each time something happens) once per time it happens." (Paraphrasing because it's talking in terms of playing cards after having explained that using a power is the same as playing a card, and I'm smushing it down.)
So you can use it once at the start of your turn.
I think your paraphrasing was being extremely liberal. I just read that page of the rule book and it does not say "a card or power", nor does it say anything about using a characters Power Feats. This page of the rule book seems to only be talking about playing the powers on cards.
Is everyone else restricting Adowyn to 1 animal or Leryn grab per turn?
I think your paraphrasing was being extremely liberal. I just read that page of the rule book and it does not say "a card or power", nor does it say anything about using a characters Power Feats. This page of the rule book seems to only be talking about playing the powers on cards.
As a note: your character card is a card. And the section labeled powers: Those are your character's powers. Feats are the *checkboxes* that add and modify powers, not the powers themselves.
Is everyone else restricting Adowyn to 1 animal or Leryn grab per turn?
Pretty much, yeah.
That is how I'm playing it.
Ok then we shall too. Thanks guys.
Being at a keyboard rather than on a phone makes it much easier to add actual quotes for pedanticness! :)
What I paraphrased/summarized above is the combination of these two quotes:
Anyone can play a card whenever the card allows it. Playing a card means using a power on that card by revealing, displaying, discarding, recharging, burying, or banishing that card or by performing another action specified by that card.
Thus "playing a card" and "using a power on a card" are the same thing. This isn't actually needed as it turns out, but it was in my earlier post so here's where that part came from. The important part is this:
If a power says it may be used when something happens, you may use it every time that happens. Otherwise, a specific card's power may only be used once per check or step.
The "start of your turn" is a thing that happens once every time it's your turn, during the Advance the Blessings Deck step. (See below.) Thus you can only use Adowyn's power once. Compare to the FAQ for Amaryllis' recharge power, which they limited to once before and once after reset by making you do it "at the end of your turn".
Side note: "start of your turn" effects happen after advancing the blessings deck but before giving a card:
After advancing the blessings deck, apply any other effects that happen at the start of your turn.
Hope this helps explain what I was aiming at above, whether or not it's correct. :)
Is everyone else restricting Adowyn to 1 animal or Leryn grab per turn?
In fact, I'm almost sure that Mike & co. make a power trigger at start or end of turn *specifically* because they want it to trigger only once per turn.
When a card has multiple powers, you must choose one of them. A specific card’s power may only be used once per check or step.
Applied to character cards, RotRL Lini can do only one of shapechange, recharge a Bear and use an animal for a bonus d4 on a given check. Is that really how this is supposed to work?
For Characters and Roles, it appears the rules folks do not consider it playing a card. Variations on "play cards or use powers" are scattered throughout the rules, and the FAQ for the RotR Summon Monster card exists so it now explictly states both (drawing a separation between playing a card and using a character power).
I look at this much like I see the rules for At This Location powers: it's one of the places where the rulebook says something that, when combined with other rules and/or applied to the fullest, isn't what seems to be intended.
What they want is for you to be able to use all of your Character/Role powers in a check/step but using each specific power is restricted to once per check/step unless it's worded with a trigger or is prevented in another way (like using two different ways to determine a skill for a check). Whether that means they should make changes in the rulebooks to try to clarify is for the Paizo folks to decide. Until then, it's up to us to make reasonable assumptions. ::shrug::
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When a card has multiple powers, you must choose one of them. A specific card’s power may only be used once per check or step.Applied to character cards, RotRL Lini can do only one of shapechange, recharge a Bear and use an animal for a bonus d4 on a given check. Is that really how this is supposed to work?
You never EVER "play" your character card (unless you die, in which case you bury it... and some really horrific banes can make you bury your role card).
The Alahazra thread clearly demonstrates that using character powers are under the "once per step" restriction just like all other powers. Even though that rule is in a section called "Playing cards" (and I'd agree you don't technically play your character card), the rules about powers apply to powers on the character card.
That means you can activate more than one character power in a step, but that each character power can only be used once per step (unless it is a "When" power).
If you play your character card, then you can't play the character card twice on the same check. That would mean that RotR Lini couldn't both add 1d4 and change her die to a d10 on the same step (check). And later, if she takes the Wild Warden role, she couldn't do either of those and add 1d8 with the Magic trait to her check to defeat a bane with the Animal trait. Is that how you play Lini? I play that she can do all three of those on the same step.
Vic seems to at least hint at the idea here.
Chief Technical Officer
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Um I am sorry. But who told you that you never play your character card?
Playing a card means using a power on that card by revealing, displaying, discarding, recharging, burying, or banishing that card or by performing another action specified by that card.So when you use a power on the character card by performing any kind of action you are actually playing your character card. Even though that action is clearly none of the "examples" but normally involves doing one of those actions with another card or a trigger.
We are currently discussing some changes there, and this sentence currently looks like it might become "Playing a card means using a power on that card by performing an action with that card that is specified by the card itself."
We are currently discussing some changes there, and this sentence currently looks like it might become "Playing a card means using a power on that card by performing an action with that card that is specified by the card itself."Um I am sorry. But who told you that you never play your character card?
Playing a card means using a power on that card by revealing, displaying, discarding, recharging, burying, or banishing that card or by performing another action specified by that card.So when you use a power on the character card by performing any kind of action you are actually playing your character card. Even though that action is clearly none of the "examples" but normally involves doing one of those actions with another card or a trigger.
This is probably me being thick, but I don't get what would be the functional significance of this change? Is it just to skip on the 'This counts as playing a spell" and similar verbiage?
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Chief Technical Officer
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The functional change here is the bolded bit:
"Playing a card means using a power on that card by performing an action with that card that is specified by the card itself."
So if you're not doing something with the card itself, you're not playing it.
Which directly addresses the question of whether activating a character power counts as playing a card: it doesn't... unless, of course, it instructs you otherwise, like Seoni's power that says it counts as playing a spell.
While I get the principle there (you are not revealing, recharging, discarding your Role card) and it seems pretty bulletproof from an intersecting rules perspective (I don't think anyone would confuse a monster burying your role card as "playing" your role card), still, the description is indirect. Will people who need to scour the rules for clarification intuitively understand that "action" means something like "reveal" or "place on top of your location deck," or will they think "well, rolling my d12+6 arcane sure FEELS like an action to me!"
Related to this - how do you feel about Adowyn character using teh power printed on the Leryn cohort card multiple times at the end of a turn to recharge their hand before drawing up.
LERYN:
While displayed recharge another card to put this card in your hand.
In action:
Recharge to withdraw Leryn.
Display to scout.
Recharge to withdraw.
Display to scout.
repeat...
Obviously you are scouting teh same card over and over - but you can recharge your hand to get a "better" one, maybe one with a weapon.
I ruled this violated the playing a card more than once during a step/phase rule. What does the community think?
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Related to this - how do you feel about Adowyn character using teh power printed on the Leryn cohort card multiple times at the end of a turn to recharge their hand before drawing up.
LERYN:
While displayed recharge another card to put this card in your hand.In action:
Recharge to withdraw Leryn.
Display to scout.
Recharge to withdraw.
Display to scout.
repeat...Obviously you are scouting teh same card over and over - but you can recharge your hand to get a "better" one, maybe one with a weapon.
I ruled this violated the playing a card more than once during a step/phase rule. What does the community think?
I mean, it's between the steps, and there's no rule saying you can't scout the same card more than once, so it seems legit, albeit exploit-y.
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I mean, it's between the steps, and there's no rule saying you can't scout the same card more than once, so it seems legit, albeit exploit-y.Related to this - how do you feel about Adowyn character using teh power printed on the Leryn cohort card multiple times at the end of a turn to recharge their hand before drawing up.
LERYN:
While displayed recharge another card to put this card in your hand.In action:
Recharge to withdraw Leryn.
Display to scout.
Recharge to withdraw.
Display to scout.
repeat...Obviously you are scouting teh same card over and over - but you can recharge your hand to get a "better" one, maybe one with a weapon.
I ruled this violated the playing a card more than once during a step/phase rule. What does the community think?
Some say "exploit-y", some say 'strategic'... :)
Related to this - how do you feel about Adowyn character using teh power printed on the Leryn cohort card multiple times at the end of a turn to recharge their hand before drawing up.
LERYN:
While displayed recharge another card to put this card in your hand.In action:
Recharge to withdraw Leryn.
Display to scout.
Recharge to withdraw.
Display to scout.
repeat...Obviously you are scouting teh same card over and over - but you can recharge your hand to get a "better" one, maybe one with a weapon.
I ruled this violated the playing a card more than once during a step/phase rule. What does the community think?
Our Adowyn does this too. No one in the group can find any fault with it. But it does feel wrong.
Our Adowyn does this too. No one in the group can find any fault with it. But it does feel wrong.
Sometimes, to fight monsters, you must yourself become a monster.
Our Adowyn does this too. No one in the group can find any fault with it. But it does feel wrong.Sometimes, to fight monsters, you must yourself become a monster.
I say nay! When monsters gather, I gather monsters.
Our Adowyn does this too. No one in the group can find any fault with it. But it does feel wrong.
As long as you aren't in the middle of anything else (aren't encountering a card / making a check of some type), it's legit. It's definitely nice to be able to arbitrarily recharge cards. For example, on a turn you acquire a boon, instead of discarding down to your hand size, you can use leryn to recharge an arbitrary card.
I say nay! When monsters gather, I gather monsters.
A fellow Balazar player, then?
You think fighting monsters is the point of the game? Ha! It's actually recharge velocity.
I say nay! When monsters gather, I gather monsters.A fellow Balazar player, then?
Yes sir! First play-through I was Alain. This was during his broken Lancer days. Now, Padrig and I gather monsters. Haven't chosen a role yet though. I might get forced into picking Tyrannomancer because I say that line every time I gather them.
I've always thought the point of our adventures was to see how many great weapons and armors I could kick over the side of the ship.
I love this comment.
You think fighting monsters is the point of the game? Ha! It's actually recharge velocity.
I hope this is true, because since you posted this, it's all one of my group members says.