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I've got another thread in the rules section, but was directed here for the PFS end of it.
If a named weapon doesn't specify a size, what sizes can the weapon be in PFS?
We checked, there don't seem to be any actual pathfinder rules regarding the size of named weapons, beyond the size cost changes mentioned for mundane weapons and a little random table for the size of found magic weapons.
For my Example, the "Shatterspike" from the core rulebook. Its a longsword, but has no indication of size. Can I take a Large one? How about a Small one? Or a Medium? Does size affect the cost of named magic items and if so, how?
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PCs can always buy weapons and equipment off their Chronicle sheets and the approved equipment lists for their size so long as their size is Small or Medium. Thus, if a Chronicle sheet offers a Small PC the opportunity to purchase a +1 frost longsword, she can always buy the +1 frost longsword at size Small
So medium or small, assuming you are that size. (Occasionally other sized weapons will appear on chronicle sheets)
Medium and small are the same price, see p144 of the core rulebook for more details (Bottom left, Weapon Qualities: Cost)
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So medium or small, assuming you are that size. (Occasionally other sized weapons will appear on chronicle sheets)
Price differences are in the weapon size rules on page 144 of the core rulebook.
No, I'm talking about Named Weapons bought with fame scores. Like the Shatterspike.
Not a weapon only enabled through a chronicle sheet or always available. Or is the idea that Named weapons can only be purchased via a chronicle sheet?
Though regarding your quote, if you continue down, it clarifies that the weapons for their size is related to items bought as "always available" items. I'm talking about items purchased through Fame (or PP)
PCs can always buy weapons and equipment off their
Chronicle sheets and the approved equipment lists for
their size so long as their size is Small or Medium. Thus,
if a Chronicle sheet offers a Small PC the opportunity
to purchase a +1 frost longsword, she can always buy the
1 frost longsword at size Small. Items found while playing
the scenario, however, are the size they are when they’re
found. The size can only be adjusted up or down after
the scenario is over, while the PCs are buying new gear.
PCs purchasing equipment at sizes other than Small and
Medium must adjust the prices per the existing weapon
size rules (Core Rulebook 144).
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Not a weapon only enabled through a chronicle sheet. Or is the idea that Named weapons can only be purchased via a chronicle sheet?
You missed the second part of that phrase. Weapons bought off of approved equipment lists follow the same size rules.
PCs can always buy weapons and equipment off their
Chronicle sheets and the approved equipment lists for
their size so long as their size is Small or Medium. Thus,
if a Chronicle sheet offers a Small PC the opportunity
to purchase a +1 frost longsword, she can always buy the
1 frost longsword at size Small. Items found while playing
the scenario, however, are the size they are when they’re
found. The size can only be adjusted up or down after
the scenario is over, while the PCs are buying new gear.
PCs purchasing equipment at sizes other than Small and
Medium must adjust the prices per the existing weapon
size rules (Core Rulebook 144).
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You missed the second part of that phrase. Weapons bought off of approved equipment lists follow the same size rules.
And the size rules in approved equipment lists restrict us to Small, medium and large weapons.
The rules for the cost changes are found in the CRB on page 144, which relate to the cost of the base item. A named magic item does not use a base item, hence the question.
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You missed the second part of that phrase. Weapons bought off of approved equipment lists follow the same size rules.
And the size rules in approved equipment lists restrict us to Small, medium and large weapons.
The rules for the cost changes are found in the CRB on page 144, which relate to the cost of the base item. A named magic item does not use a base item, hence the question.
And, until someone with the authority in PFS to do so steps in, unfortunately you would be limited to Medium and Small size versions, since any other size requires GM adjudication.
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And, until someone with the authority in PFS to do so steps in, unfortunately you would be limited to Medium and Small size versions, since any other size requires GM adjudication.You missed the second part of that phrase. Weapons bought off of approved equipment lists follow the same size rules.
And the size rules in approved equipment lists restrict us to Small, medium and large weapons.
The rules for the cost changes are found in the CRB on page 144, which relate to the cost of the base item. A named magic item does not use a base item, hence the question.
To what are you addressing?
Are you saying that named items come in the size of the character, or are you saying that Weapons in general can only be bought as small or medium?
Regarding the named items coming at the size of the character, I'd love a quote to that extent. In particular, regarding items purchased with appropriate fame or with PP.
Now if you are saying only small/medium weapons can be purchased, you are just wrong. Read the always available bit. Small, medium and large weapons are always available.
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Since no one seems to be comprehending my issue, here's the text for Shatterspike:
This intimidating weapon appears to be a longsword with multiple hooks, barbs, and serrations along the blade, excellent for catching and sundering a foe's weapon. Wielders without the Improved Sunder feat use a shatterspike as a +1 longsword only. Wielders with the Improved Sunder feat instead use shatterspike as a +4 longsword when attempting to sunder an opponent's weapon. Shatterspike can damage weapons with an enhancement bonus of +4 or lower.
Obviously, it's a longsword. Nothing in the description indicates it's size. This is true for every named weapon in the Core Rule book.
So, the question is what sizes are available, and where does it say this?
And regarding alterations, the issue is that there is no listed size, so a larger version isn't altered anymore than a small version or a medium version.
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The general size rules for magic items are in the CRB, and probably reprinted in UE. All items are priced at size small/medium, so like I mentioned before. Buying a large version would go against the FAQ about named items.
You are incorrect here. If adjusting for size is truly an alteration, then the weight changes for adjusting to small size would also qualify as alterations.
The FAQ does not say anything about being unable to buy large items and even references the page in the CRB that describes size adjustments for weapons.
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Why do people have to push the limits all the time?
I mean, seriously, not aimed at any one person in particular, but why can't the items as presented be accepted as the items presented without trying to find 'niche' cases?
It's old.
Very old.
There are plenty of things that can be done without looking for 'corner' cases that involve a lot of analysis time (that could be better spent on something constructive, like writing a scenario, coming up with nifty new boons, etc.)
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The issue regarding cost of Named weapons is that the base item is where the cost for the size increase/decrease is calculated, but Named items are not calculated with a base item cost. I'm sure you could factor it in, but it isn't covered by the rules directly.
Sure it is. Shatterspike is a magic longsword. No special materials are mentioned, so it's a normal magic longsword. A magic longsword has to be made from a masterwork longsword. So the pricing for shatterspike is 15gp (longsword) + 300gp (masterwork) + 4000gp (enhancements) = 4315.
Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions.
This wouldn't be possible if you could not calculate the cost of the upgrade.
Therefore, you should be able to calculate the cost of large shatterspike
Large Longsword (30gp) + masterwork (300gp) + enhancements (4000gp) = 4,330gp.
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Sure it is. Shatterspike is a magic longsword. No special materials are mentioned, so it's a normal magic longsword. A magic longsword has to be made from a masterwork longsword. So the pricing for shatterspike is 15gp (longsword) + 300gp (masterwork) + 4000gp (enhancements) = 4315.
Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions.This wouldn't be possible if you could not calculate the cost of the upgrade.
Therefore, you should be able to calculate the cost of large shatterspike
Large Longsword (30gp) + masterwork (300gp) + enhancements (4000gp) = 4,330gp.
That works for me, if that's how it's calculated. Its in the FAQ for PFS, huh? I'll double check, but that sounds like a direct solution to my question. Thanks.
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Why do people have to push the limits all the time?
A difference of opinion in the clarity of a rule. I suspect that this one looked very clear cut to you, which is why you didn't see the need for the thread. It did not appear clear to me, which is why I asked.
I'm not asking these to create tension, I genuinely want to know the answer to the question when I ask one. If this were not organized play, I'd just ask the GM (or be the GM and choose).
And personally, I'd rather someone ask instead of just assuming the rules work a certain way. Creates less issues in-game if people just ask online.
Anyway, I did get my answer.