Shadow Conjuration, Evocation, etc., and descriptors

[Ethereal Gears]

Hi y'all.
Quick question. If I use Shadow Conjuration to mimic Acid Arrow, or if I use Shadow Evocation to mimic Fireball, do the shadow versions of these spell retain the [acid] and [fire] descriptors, or do they simply have the [shadow] descriptor? Are any descriptors retained when using shadow magic to mimic other spells?

[Ferious Thune]

I'm preparing to play a shadow focused character. My understanding of it is that if the target fails their initial will save, then it acts exactly like the emulated spell. If they make their save, then it's only 20% real, but that 20% acts like the emulated spell. So I believe that means it would retain all descriptors. In general, that's probably to your benefit. It does also mean when using Shadow Enchantment, you can't get around immunity to mind-affecting.

[Ethereal Gears]

Aha. Well, that does seem like a reasonable interpretation. Thanks!

EDIT: Although, come to think of it, I'm not sure what "acts like the emulated spell" actually entails. For instance, I'm assuming Spell Focus (illusion) would apply to the Reflex save to halve the damage of a shadow-evoked fireball, not Spell Focus (evocation), right?

[Slithery D]

Ethereal Gears wrote:

Aha. Well, that does seem like a reasonable interpretation. Thanks!

EDIT: Although, come to think of it, I'm not sure what "acts like the emulated spell" actually entails. For instance, I'm assuming Spell Focus (illusion) would apply to the Reflex save to halve the damage of a shadow-evoked fireball, not Spell Focus (evocation), right?

Right. Where it gets weird for me is a Psychic casting Shadow Enchantment with the Overpowering Mind phrenic amplification (which boosts mind-affecting DCs). I'm sure the spell takes on the mind-affecting tag, but I'm not sure that means the DC bonus should apply to the first (disbelief) save, or just the second.

[Ridiculon]

Only the first, your class ability modifies the actual spell you are casting which is Shadow Evocation (same thing with metamagic).

Its like having a robot in a box. You can make the box as shiny or as big as you want but the robot will still do whatever it was programmed to do when you open the box.

[Tindalen]

Ridiculon wrote:

Only the first, your class ability modifies the actual spell you are casting which is Shadow Evocation (same thing with metamagic).

Its like having a robot in a box. You can make the box as shiny or as big as you want but the robot will still do whatever it was programmed to do when you open the box.

The spell DC for all saves on all of the shadow spells are equal to the save DC of the shadow spell, if you raise the DC of shadow evocation, you are raising the will save to disbelieve as well as the reflex save to resist fireball. Persistent, greater spell focus illusion, even overpowering mind, affects all aspects of the spell. Greater spell focus evocation as the spell is not an evocation spell.

Simple reasoning for this, the spell descriptions specifically say the emulated spell uses the shadow spell level for its DCs and no where specifies that other modifications to the shadow spell do not.

[Ethereal Gears]

The initial Will save to disbelieve a (shadow) effect is not a mind-affecting effect, though, right? I mean, I get that, for example, an undead creature would be immune to any spell you could mimic via Shadow Enchantment, since all enchantment effects are mind-affecting by definition, but the same undead wouldn't automatically succeed on its Will save to disbelieve a shadow-conjured Create Pit, I assume?

[Tindalen]

Ethereal Gears wrote:

The initial Will save to disbelieve a (shadow) effect is not a mind-affecting effect, though, right? I mean, I get that, for example, an undead creature would be immune to any spell you could mimic via Shadow Enchantment, since all enchantment effects are mind-affecting by definition, but the same undead wouldn't automatically succeed on its Will save to disbelieve a shadow-conjured Create Pit, I assume?

Shadow Evocation wrote:

Objects automatically succeed on their Will saves against this spell.

Only objects automatically succeed, undead are creatures. Yet objects can still be affected by shadow spells, percentage of the damage or percentage chance of being affected.

Edit: Let me fix my reasoning a bit. Shadow spells are not mind affecting thus are not by default stopped by immunity to mind affecting. Shadow Enchantment specifically states that

Quote:

Objects, mindless creatures, and creatures immune to mind-affecting effects automatically succeed at their Will saves against this spell.

Undead have no special immunity to shadow evocation, conjuration, or transmutation.

[Ethereal Gears]

Aha. That clears things up nicely. Much obliged. :)