Order of the Amber Die
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(The Ironroot Deception)
These people are crazy.
Not just the Reclaimers, I mean Gad as well.
The Shudderwood is bad enough on the Ustalav side, but to go into the Worldwound side (apparently with no personal gear) intending on being captured by a xenophobic elven cult seems paramount to suicide. It was an insane gamble, but it's clear that Gad knows exactly what he's doing. The play with the dagger and the gems was genius, thanks to Vitta, but they got a little lucky with Dualal because if she was a little more sane she could've put up more of a fight in the end. Does anyone know what those plant creatures are? I thought they were shambling mounds at first, but something about their descriptions makes me think it's not that simple...
Anyhow, regardless of how psychotic the elves of the Reclamation were presented in this story, I did find it interesting that there are those who still feel strongly about humans in that way. I actually sympathize with them a little, and understand why there would still be a select few who would still harbored that much hatred for non-elves even after all these millennia from when when their ancestors left during the Retreat. I looked for some more information about the Reclaimers in the Inner Sea World Guide and Elves of Golarion, but couldn't find anything. Would they be somewhere in the Second Darkness AP maybe? Does anyone know where I can find them, or are they an original creation by Robin D. Laws?
The Reclaimers are the elves that largely fight the Tangle in Kyonin; the corruption of Treerazor there is one of the main reasons why the elves rarely/never go north to fight the Worldwound. There's a whole organization of radicalized Reclaimers in the Second Darkness, and then I think that there is a PFS scenario called the Elven Entanglement where you aid their attempts to rescue stranded colleagues.
How do you mean "still feel strongly about humans in that way"? I tend to read the Reclaimers as very bitter people that, if you take the lore about how elves always psychically/physiologically adapt to their environment into mind, have been poisoned by the corruption of nature surrounding them. The fact that the demons infesting the wilds are invariably the result of human meddling can't help, and I can imagine that the crusades to end the Worldwound are a sore point on two fronts; both that no humans aid them in slaying Treerazor, whose presence on Golarion started loooooong before the Worldwound opened, and because the crusaders passing north run afoul of Kyonin's border patrols. I think there's even an elf PC from a Paizo employee whose backstory is that some crusaders going north slaughtered his entire elven village when he was a kid and took him with them as a slave. I mean, not gonna lie... if I were an elf, I think I'd be pretty ticked off at humans too.
Which imo leads to the one larger flaw in this - while I enjoyed the story (especially because Law does a great job of weaving in rogue diplomacy/gambits into wilderness settings - hey not everything has to be in a city to have social skill-checks!), in this case it seems like the Reclaimers would have erred on racial supremacy/secrecy and decided not to allow these rando humans to show up and aide them. I am also mildly amused, because reflecting back now I realize that Gad has continuously... well, spoilers. I'll come back to that later!
I think that the thornbeast was just an advanced tendriculos. Or it was made up, I'm not sure - I recognize the picture from a beastiary entry, and I'm betting that the forest creature was a tentriculos, which are the plants that arise from "the corruption of nature", but there are a loooot of plant monsters now.
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Order of the Amber Die
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The Reclaimers are the elves that largely fight the Tangle in Kyonin; the corruption of Treerazor there is one of the main reasons why the elves rarely/never go north to fight the Worldwound. There's a whole organization of radicalized Reclaimers in the Second Darkness, and then I think that there is a PFS scenario called the Elven Entanglement where you aid their attempts to rescue stranded colleagues.
I figured they might be in Second Darkness, I'll check that out, thank you! I do know a bit about Treerazer from some background research I did before running Fangwood Keep, and I was going to build a Tanglebriar Demonslayer to play in Wrath of the Righteous, but if the elves rarely go to the Worldwound perhaps I'll come up with something else.
What do you mean "still feel strongly about humans in that way"? I tend to read the Reclaimers as very bitter people that, if you take the lore about how elves always psychically/physiologically adapt to their environment into mind, have been poisoned by the corruption of nature surrounding them. The fact that the demons infesting the wilds are invariably the result of human meddling can't help, and I can imagine that the crusades to end the Worldwound are a sore point on two fronts; both that no humans aid them in slaying Treerazor, whose presence on Golarion started loooooong before the Worldwound opened, and because the crusaders passing north run afoul of Kyonin's border patrols. I think there's even an elf PC from a Paizo employee whose backstory is that some crusaders going north slaughtered his entire elven village when he was a kid and took him with them as a slave. I mean, not gonna lie... if I were an elf, I think I'd be pretty ticked off at humans too.
I'm definitely with you on that, but "ticked off" is far off from being genocidal like the Reclaimers, which is what I was referring to about the elven outlook on humans. The thousands of years after the Retreat has almost let their view towards them reduce to a simmer, and even though Kyonin remains the icon for elven ethnocentricity, the fact that the half-elven community of Erages is tolerated within their borders is proof of that. There will always be elves who hate humans - and rightfully so - but wanting to eradicate them entirely is a whole different level of racism.
Which imo leads to the one larger flaw in this - while I enjoyed the story (especially because Law does a great job of weaving in rogue diplomacy/gambits into wilderness settings - hey not everything has to be in a city to have social skill-checks!), in this case it seems like the Reclaimers would have erred on racial supremacy/secrecy and decided not to allow these rando humans to show up and aide them. I am also mildly amused, because reflecting back now I realize that Gad has continuously... well, spoilers. I'll come back to that later!
I see what you're saying, but another way to consider it is the Reclaimers are using the humans out of spite. Slavery serves one (or a combination) of three purposes: productivity, profit, or punishment; the latter of which is the most believable reason why the Reclaimers would be using the humans in this manner. Plus, I think it's safe to say that Dualal had no intention of letting any of them live after everything was said and done.
P.S. Thanks for the spoiler redaction!
I think that the thornbeast was just an advanced tendriculos. Or it was made up, I'm not sure - I recognize the picture from a beastiary entry, and I'm betting that the forest creature was a tentriculos, which are the plants that arise from "the corruption of nature", but there are a loooot of plant monsters now.
I hate those things...
Well I probably shouldn't say that elves "never" go to the Worldwound - if any would, it's almost definitely the Reclaimers; in The Worldwound I think there's a line about why elves are found in the region, and those rare times that they are it's because they're researching new ways to fight demons in the Tanglebriar or else on quests somehow related to bringing knowledge of demons back to Kyonin.
I'm definitely with you on that, but "ticked off" is far off from being genocidal like the Reclaimers, which is what I was referring to about the elven outlook on humans. The thousands of years after the Retreat has almost let their view towards...
Aah, okay I see what you mean. It's good to hear a counterpoint at times, because often I see the human-centric view of Golarion as incredibly threatening to the other races, and when it's backed up by the stories of humans being either massive tools or straight-up genocidal themselves I'm usually more of the stance of "oh of course every other race on Golarion would feel pressured to declaring war on the bloodthirsty humans". After all, we saw that in Plague of Shadows where the Galtans just blithely slaughtered a young elf noble and her retinue (despite the obvious ramifications of pissing off her lord-wizard uncle, whose lands directly bordered their city), or even waaay back when in Death's Heretic where Neila's response to the fey being irritating (after she razed their ancestral home) was to demand their murder and the display of their corpses as warnings. I guess I'm so used to the use of genocidal slaughter as a way of dealing with every other race (on the part of humans) that I actually find it very refreshing when it's reflected back at - in Golarion's case - the most frequent perpetrators of it.
I see what you're saying, but another way to consider it is the Reclaimers are using the humans out of spite. Slavery serves one (or a combination) of three purposes: productivity, profit, or punishment; the latter of which is the most believable reason why the Reclaimers would be using the humans in this manner. Plus, I think it's safe to say that Dualal had no intention of letting any of them live after everything was said and done.
Hmm, okay I see what you mean - a way of getting revenge during this process of... getting revenge. Hah, yeah okay I can see where - while not the brightest idea - Dualal would be enamored of the idea (and why that would actually cause even more friction amongst her forces).
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Order of the Amber Die
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(The Worldwound Gambit)
Chapters One through Nine:
Belabras - now I understand what you meant by departure of story. Not that I'm complaining at all, I'm thoroughly entertained and the writing is incredibly smart, but the structure is definitely different.
Unlike the traditional plot where the protagonist(s) have to figure out what that problems are and how to solve them, it seems like Gad already knows exactly where he's going and at what he's supposed to do, he just needs to get all the right people together and all the other pieces in place to do it. It's definitely a caper story, complete with flashy characters and crisp dialogue akin to the Ocean's 11/12/13 heist films.
"Friend of yours?" she asks.
Gad adjusts the body slightly, to identify its face.
"Property dispute," he explains.
"He had property, and you disputed that?"
"Essentially" he says.
Awesome.
Regarding the ensemble cast, instead their character arc(s) developing over the course of the story, they are static, going through little to no change throughout. Instead, we get to see an exhibition of the incredible things they're capable of as an alternating functional and dysfunctional family. So what does everyone think the characters are, in game terms?
Here are my guesses:
So far their journey has been quite freakish, as the Worldwound (and parts of Mendev) seems so depraved and apocalyptically alien compared the other regions that we've read about so far. It's hard to imagine things can only get worse from this point on, especially given the fields of unnarag they just encountered. So nasty...
I think Tiberio is a pretty low-level cleric, like maybe level 3 with many more levels of barbarian than anything else. Gad is absolutely a rogue: (charlatan), hah, and one of the most interesting things about Laws' tales is how well Gad shows it off. You can practically see the skill check that's the first successful bluff with each interaction!
Hendregon I think is a wizard with the eidetic memory trait that appears from time to time in 3.5/Pathfinder material (negating the need for a spellbook). I think he's also roughly "archmage" level (8-12 or so) based the spells he casts, although I wouldn't rule out that he might have some eldtrich heritage feats going on as well. It's always fascinating to see a caster that seems to straddle two classes, rather than just clearly fit one role.
The way the story is written is very different as well - much of the story is told very much as a movie, and I feel that makes what we, the readers see, much more deliberate. We don't see how Calliard and Gad know each other, for example, or how Gad is able to find Vitta so easily (in this otherwise war-torn, heavily ravaged nation plagued with adventurers and demons). When this style is compared to, say, Hunting the Beast, where we are in the heads of a bunch of different characters, it feels to me like there's a much higher level of suspense in the air. Probably what makes it feel like more of a heist caper too!
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Hendregon - more is revealed in time. He definitely is casting without a spellbook though.
Tiberio - when the book came out I think it would have been hard to stat him. Now, I think some mix of brawler and unarmed warpriest would do it.
Gad - I think charlatan rogue is probably on target.
Vitta - she is all about the traps. Maybe a level of alchemist, but mostly she's a trapsmith.
Jerisa - she is way too martial stabby to be just a rogue. I think stalker.
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Order of the Amber Die
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I think Tiberio is a pretty low-level cleric, like maybe level 3 with many more levels of barbarian than anything else. Gad is absolutely a rogue: (charlatan), hah, and one of the most interesting things about Laws' tales is how well Gad shows it off. You can practically see the skill check that's the first successful bluff with each interaction!
What impresses me the most about Gad is he's so smooth that he almost doesn't seem like he's trying. Like, the Bluff check comes up and his modifier is so high he just uses the skill mastery advanced rogue talent to Take 10 and that's that.
Hendregan I think is a wizard with the eidetic memory trait that appears from time to time in 3.5/Pathfinder material (negating the need for a spellbook). I think he's also roughly "archmage" level (8-12 or so) based the spells he casts, although I wouldn't rule out that he might have some eldritch heritage feats going on as well. It's always fascinating to see a caster that seems to straddle two classes, rather than just clearly fit one role.
Not familiar with that trait. Also, is there still an Archmage prestige class in Pathfinder? I thought they dropped that, but I guess there could be a substitute floating around somewhere. I like seeing multiclassed characters too, but only if it's done tastefully. It's hard playing with someone that overdoes it to get as many feats as they can, or whatever reasons they come up with, because in the end their character is just a jumble on a stat block, losing any sense of identity. I'm totally fine with "Hello, my name is Hendregan. I'm a pyromaniac." What I can't stand is, "I'm a fighter 2/ranger 2/monk 2/cleric 2 with a couple prestige classes thrown in just for good measure." So if Hendregan is a sorcerer/wizard with the fire elemental bloodline and the fire elemental school, that's awesome AND makes total sense.
The way the story is written is very different as well - much of the story is told very much as a movie, and I feel that makes what we, the readers see, much more deliberate. We don't see how Calliard and Gad know each other, for example, or how Gad is able to find Vitta so easily (in this otherwise war-torn, heavily ravaged nation plagued with adventurers and demons). When this style is compared to, say, Hunting the Beast, where we are in the heads of a bunch of different characters, it feels to me like there's a much higher level of suspense in the air. Probably what makes it feel like more of a heist caper too!
I thought the same exact thing. Coming from a screenwriting background, this kind of storytelling makes me feel more at home, for lack of better words, and you're right - how Calliard and Gad know each other and how Gad is able to find Vitta is totally glossed over, but it works! It's not a continuity error or missing exposition, it either doesn't matter or isn't important to the overall theme. Some writers use flashbacks to define these sorts of things, and that's great too, but in this story leaving all that out keeps the pacing really tight. In contrast, the scene at Suma with Gad and Jerisa gave us some insight to their relationship, but it's function was not only to give us a hint about their history, but the roiling emotions she has for him coupled with a little bit of obsession made for an intense cinematic scene, especially with all the demonic creatures flying over the sunset in the backdrop. A lot of people make comparisons between books and movies, and complain that one didn't do the other justice, but the fact is they're two different mediums. There are so many things in books that are descriptive, but can't necessarily be seen or heard, and those things obviously don't translate well to the screen. However, that scene is almost a cut & paste job for an adaptation, and was so intense that I could almost see it playing out at different camera angles and hear a dark, melodic score in the background. There needs to be more stuff like that in Pathfinder Tales.
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Order of the Amber Die
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Hendregan - more is revealed in time. He definitely is casting without a spellbook though.
Tiberio - when the book came out I think it would have been hard to stat him. Now, I think some mix of brawler and unarmed warpriest would do it.
Gad - I think charlatan rogue is probably on target.
Vitta - she is all about the traps. Maybe a level of alchemist, but mostly she's a trapsmith.
Jerisa - she is way too martial stabby to be just a rogue. I think stalker.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who had a hard time trying to figure Tiberio out. If the Advanced Class Guide was out when this book was written I'd be with you on that, and he'd likely be brawler (steel-breaker) or and/or a warpriest (sacred fist) perhaps. I like how you call Jerisa "stabby" it made me laugh, but it's so true! The slayer (cutthroat) would be spot on for her, but all things considered I like her as the classic fighter/rogue, maybe with a few levels in assassin, as she's clearly the killer of the group. Hendregan does his own fair share of that, but as we've seen he often doesn't consider the things he's doing, he just wants to set everything on fire. Jerisa though...she's ruthless, and borderline sadistic even. I think involving her was a necessary evil for Gad, because even though she's clearly talented at what she does, she's just as much a liability. If her recklessness she doesn't get him killed, one wrong move from Gad and she might even try to kill him herself!
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Order of the Amber Die
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Chapters Ten through Eighteen:
I appreciated how most of their journey through the Worldwound was done as a montage, which not only to maintained the steady rhythm of the plot, but only giving us glimpses of a few of the horrors of the region spares us from seeing it all. The demonic presence has bled through so much it might as well be considered another layer of the Abyss.
So now we know for sure that Hendregan is a sorcerer, confirmed by Vitta exactly the way players do, haha. However, that doesn't mean he's still not multiclassed, as he could speaking also be an oracle with the fire mystery. Also, do you think he actually referred to the Words of Power, as in the optional spellcasting system in Ultimate Magic? I experimented with that option for a six-month campaign [I played an emberkin aasimar crossblooded sorcerer with the celestial and martyred bloodlines] and although it was fun, after a while it became tedious because the more words I learned the more option anxiety set in, so each of my turns took increasingly longer as I tried to customize the best combination for each situation. It didn't help that I translated all of the words to Latin and relied on a spreadsheet to actually speak the spells in character, but it was an interesting experience nonetheless. But I digress...the whole Hendregan situation is ridiculous, but in a great way. Although the forehead-slapping ordeal with him parting the sea of lava was 1/3 homage and 2/3 parody to a classic biblical scene, it was still – again – incredibly cinematic.
Another good thing about Gad and company being the scoundrels they are is their alignment, as scenes like the one when Calliard and Jerisa sneaking through the cultists' camp would be impossible if they were good characters. First, any demons with alignment detection would screen them easily, and second, something could eventually come up where good characters would be impelled to help the hapless victims all around them and botch the rip.
Then there's the whole issue with the "amateurs" and whether or not they'll be a liability, which is where the line between neutral and evil really starts to blur. Gad doesn't really go too near it, as we've him have a few tendencies towards good, but Vitta seems to straddle it, but for understandable reasons. If Vasilissa and her crew are captured, Gad and his crew would most likely be compromised. So it makes sense to not even risk that happening, right? Well, if I had to face that situation in the game and I was playing Gad, I honestly don't know what I would do here.
Anyway, I thought the Wouldwound outside the tower was bad, but inside is a whole other echelon on nightmares. The line between Cad and Hendregan about "fighting madness with madness" is clearly true here. Forget about coming out insane, one has to be insane to want to go in the first place. Even the locks and traps inside are worse than the outside! As if the urannag weren't bad enough, just looking at the vault is about to make Vitta almost totally unravel, and she's one of the steeliest of the bunch. Just like the best heist capers, you look at insurmountable odds the characters are facing and you wonder how they could possibly pull something like this off. How to pick an unpickable lock...
...hmmm...
So now we know for sure that Hendregan is a sorcerer, confirmed by Vitta exactly the way players do, haha. However, that doesn't mean he's still not multiclassed, as he could speaking also be an oracle with the fire mystery. Also, do you think he actually referred to the Words of Power, as in the optional spellcasting system in Ultimate Magic? I experimented with that option for a six-month campaign [I played an emberkin aasimar crossblooded sorcerer with the celestial and martyred bloodlines] and although it was fun, after a while it became tedious because the more words I learned the more option anxiety set in, so each of my turns took increasingly longer as I tried to customize the best combination for each situation. It didn't help that I translated all of the words to Latin and relied on a spreadsheet to actually speak the spells in character, but it was an interesting experience nonetheless. But I digress...the whole Hendregan situation is ridiculous, but in a great way. Although the forehead-slapping ordeal with him parting the sea of lava was 1/3 homage and 2/3 parody to a classic biblical scene, it was still – again – incredibly cinematic.
You know, it's cool that you feel this is confirmed when I read this as Hendragon actually being a wizard through and through - I don't believe for a second that he has a single level of spontaneous caster. It seemed to me much more like this was someone using their massive INT to great advantage - in debating (not diplomacing) the fire spirits, in the whole benefits of being thought of as a wizard, even down to the fact that it is VITTA, the non-spellcaster, who supposedly needs to explain what a magical bloodline means - when everyone just saw him know full-well what power he inherited as a birthright. I mean I might be totally wrong because I'm mainly drawing on the Eidetic Spellcaster feat from the old Dragon Magazine and "that's not pathfinder" but... man I just don't see him as a sorcerer - even though the language changes to call him "fire sorcerer" later on and stuff, I think it's a lie to throw the reader off the trail! sure Hendragon is crazy, but there's a cleverness there that I could not attribute to a high CHA individual...
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Order of the Amber Die
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You know, it's cool that you feel this is confirmed when I read this as Hendragon actually being a wizard through and through - I don't believe for a second that he has a single level of spontaneous caster. It seemed to me much more like this was someone using their massive INT to great advantage - in debating (not diplomacing) the fire spirits, in the whole benefits of being thought of as a wizard, even down to the fact that it is VITTA, the non-spellcaster, who supposedly needs to explain what a magical bloodline means - when everyone just saw him know full-well what power he inherited as a birthright. I mean I might be totally wrong because I'm mainly drawing on the Eidetic Spellcaster feat from the old Dragon Magazine and "that's not pathfinder" but... man I just don't see him as a sorcerer - even though the language changes to call him "fire sorcerer" later on and stuff, I think it's a lie to throw the reader off the trail! sure Hendragon is crazy, but there's a cleverness there that I could not attribute to a high CHA individual
That's a good point. I balked at the end of the conversation where Vitta said all that, as I thought it was strange that Hendo replied, "When others ask...tell them I am a wizard." Perhaps he wants to keep his bloodline secret? Although I don't see why others would care if they knew his mother was some sort of fire elemental creature. Then again, he says and does a lot of strange things so who really knows. I guess it depends whether or not that comment was just him being weird or if came during one of his lucid moments. Anyway, just like Jiri from Firesoul, Hendregan could be a lot of things, and you're right - just because Vitta spelled that out for us doesn't mean that's the end of it.
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Chapters Nineteen through Twenty Seven:
The Chaos Vault - what a dizzying concept. To be honest, I had to read it several times before I could wrap my brain around it, and the dialogue where Vitta summed it up for Gad finally pushed it through for me. "You can either have a pattern, or an irregularity, but you can't have both. Not in the same object. And that's what the chaos vault is - an irregular pattern."
At first, I thought it seemed a bit too easy for them to have bypassed it entirely without unlocking it as Gad mentioned, but then I started thinking about it from a game mechanics perspective, although as a developer as opposed to as a GM or player. If I was designing this event in a module, I would write it so the PCs would have to do something to get past the chaos element before even attempting a Disable Device check. Perhaps a powerful magic item or a combination of spells, or maybe make the chaos vault an actual creature with DR 20/lawful that would have to be destroyed first. But then I would add that one precious solution that some modules offer, which would read something like: “If the PCs kept a piece of the urannag in their possession, they can attempt a DC 30 Knowledge (planes) check to come up with a theory that it can be used to momentarily destabilize the chaos vault.”
The whole solution that Vitta came up with made me think of a hacker implanting a worm to bring down a firewall to gain access to a network. Now that I think about it, that metaphor basically describes the whole “rip” (I love that term) as Gad and company had to worm their way through the Worldwound and into arguably one of the deadliest strongholds in Golarion to do something that thousands of paladins and their ilk never even got close to accomplishing thus far. In the end, it all played out as I expected; not the details of the plot, as I was totally deceived by the false deception, but that layers of betrayal had to culminate in a mind-blowing reveal to pull this whole thing off. The heist was as clever as it was perilous, which is saying a lot, and smartly written to reflect the effort put into it.
On a side note, another one of the things I’ve always wanted to try in a campaign is for all the PCs to be members of a thieves’ guild [each character had to have at least a few levels in rogue as multiclassing would be encouraged for diversity] but the group that Gad assembled takes that concept to a whole other level. So to wrap this up, how about we do a final assessment of the ensemble of characters, but let’s give someone else a chance to lead off first…
Sorry DB I was horribly sick last weekend - I could barely move and forgot to add a post about the WwG.
I 100% am interested in the Sweet Ichor journals, particularly speaking towards how they work as an ending!
for chapters 19 - 27
I had some questions about what you guys thought of the final gambit (well, at least the piece where it all tied together).
One of the most impressive things about Gad's gambit here is that his team essentially defeats a demon lord. After all, Yath can grant divine spells, manipulate reality, and garners worshipers (to a lesser degree than the Locust Lord to be sure, but it can still facilitate those things nonetheless). At the same time, the team isn't particularly high level - they express apprehension about fighting the balors, for example, and although Isilda is stated to be level 17 in the Worldwound campaign setting, it's also stated that she has grown to be "far more powerful" than she was in life. I've always taken that to mean she was maybe 10-13 during the Worldwound Gambit, and it was only through the loss of one of her divine patrons that Jerisa was able to make any ground against her at all - and Jerisa still lost rather handily. With that in mind, did it actually feel believable that this team could have pulled off this gambit? Does it feel "epic-level" (which is essentially what it takes to slay a demon lord)?
I'm not doubting anything, I am just curious what sort of reactions this ending might have garnered.
My second question was about the false deception - and particularly that both Gad and Calliard knew what was going on for most of the mission, while it was largely the reader that did not (since information regarding that is only shared through this overarching, third party perspective where we're only told what's happening in the present moment). There's good set-up for this, like mentioned earlier, where the narrator only shows specific moments and pointedly does NOT delve into the past relationships of anyone. In fact, I would argue that Jerisa and Gad having history together is almost just a red herring meant to throw the reader off from the fact that Gad and Calliard have as much or more history... well Gad and any of the party members, for that fact. After all, they all trust Gad nearly implicitly and follow him into terribly risky odds. Highlighting the seemingly one-sided romantic tension between Gad and Jerisa only distracts from what else is actually going on - just like Gad and Calliard were doing with the demonblood addiction. If you keep that in mind, the team was actually in significantly less danger than the reader might have imagined, as they are all roughly 6+, very clever, and certainly skilled at what they do. More importantly, though, they have a pretty good chance of trusting each other - or at least Gad's recommendation of that person - to have their back. Which says a lot, especially after something like Skinwalkers or Winter Witch where motivations are unknown and the party members often have very little loyalty to one another. As far as a driver of tension, however, did it pay off for you? Does the reveal reduce the tension, or is that unfair to include having time to reflect on it once the book was put down?
The third question was how do you guys feel about them as a team, in the end? Gad is a great leader that pulled a lot from his associates, to be sure, but in the end it's quite different from Firesoul (where they showed hints of liking each other and wanting to actually work together). In fact, it feels very uncertain that any of them like anyone else except for Gad. Does it add to the story, or detract to include those elements? How might the story be different if they seemed more interested in one another?
I dunno, I enjoyed the Worldwound Gambit, to be sure, and at the same time it is a bit different than the other Pathfinder Tales...
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Order of the Amber Die
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Sorry DB I was horribly sick last weekend - I could barely move and forgot to add a post about the WwG.
I 100% am interested in the Sweet Ichor journals, particularly speaking towards how they work as an ending!
Don't worry about it, I'm glad you're feeling better! I had actually written something I was going to post yesterday about Sweet Ichor, but I got caught up in a 15-hour Rise of the Runelords session and never clicked on the submit button. I'll post it now and then get to your next comment...
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Order of the Amber Die
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Sweet Ichor (Parts 1-6)
The first thing I have to say is that I want more. Not that I'm opposed to moving on to different characters in the next novel, but Gad and friends are so much fun! The ending totally got me in this story. I thought the last letter was going to be about how Ba-El got duped by Gad and apologies for losing all the relief funds that Zhanneal sent to them, but that he had died after the first letter was astonishing. The ending from "The Sixth Sense" comes to mind, and was delivered just as masterfully.
Like Dualal in The Ironroot Deception and Isilda in The Worldwound Gambit, for the third time we have a disturbed female antagonist in Ylyda Svyn. But unlike the previous two, she apparently started her mission with good intentions, then got fouled up along the way. Fleshwarping is the most horrid use of alchemy, so something terrible must have happened to her to resort to such measures and do such horrible things to her people, but then again awfulness isn't in short supply in the Worldwound.
As I tried to do in the Worldwound Gambit, I tried to match the demons from their descriptions, and was aided in this story as Calliard was giving us their names. A lot of them are CR 10+ creatures, as suspected, which means that these character must be extremely high level to be taking out groups of them with the ease that they are. Gad claims to be the worst fighter of the group, but he clearly holds his own, and I see him using Feint with his ridiculously high Bluff check to deliver sneak attacks with every strike. Vitta doesn't get too much of a spotlight in battle, but she seems to do just as well. Calliard may be a bard, but we hardly ever see him using performances or casting spells, so he likely has levels in fighter or rogue to be dealing enough damage to dropping demons so efficiently. They're a formidable trio with an intricate chemistry, and this was a great bookend to their stories, although I sincerely hope this isn't the end of them...
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Order of the Amber Die
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One of the most impressive things about Gad's gambit here is that his team essentially defeats a demon lord. After all, Yath can grant divine spells, manipulate reality, and garners worshipers (to a lesser degree than the Locust Lord to be sure, but it can still facilitate those things nonetheless). At the same time, the team isn't particularly high level - they express apprehension about fighting the balors, for example, and although Isilda is stated to be level 17 in the Worldwound campaign setting, it's also stated that she has grown to be "far more powerful" than she was in life. I've always taken that to mean she was maybe 10-13 during the Worldwound Gambit, and it was only through the loss of one of her divine patrons that Jerisa was able to make any ground against her at all - and Jerisa still lost rather handily. With that in mind, did it actually feel believable that this team could have pulled off this gambit? Does it feel "epic-level" (which is essentially what it takes to slay a demon lord)?
That's one of the great things about this story, which is exactly how it is in the game, that clever thinking can often substitute for killing everything in any given adventure. First, I do think that they're high level, or most of them are since they're capable of hunting demons so effectively, which makes it believable for me. Second, their methodology is sound and I can totally understand how they were able to pull this off, although luck did play its role in parts, as is usually necessary for a brilliant victory [i.e. die rolls] to occur. Third, I don't blame them at all for being reluctant to fight balors--plural accentuated--because even a group of 20th level characters would be fools to take that lightly.
My second question was about the false deception - and particularly that both Gad and Calliard knew what was going on for most of the mission, while it was largely the reader that did not (since information regarding that is only shared through this overarching, third party perspective where we're only told what's happening in the present moment). There's good set-up for this, like mentioned earlier, where the narrator only shows specific moments and pointedly does NOT delve into the past relationships of anyone. In fact, I would argue that Jerisa and Gad having history together is almost just a red herring meant to throw the reader off from the fact that Gad and Calliard have as much or more history... well Gad and any of the party members, for that fact. After all, they all trust Gad nearly implicitly and follow him into terribly risky odds. Highlighting the seemingly one-sided romantic tension between Gad and Jerisa only distracts from what else is actually going on - just like Gad and Calliard were doing with the demonblood addiction. If you keep that in mind, the team was actually in significantly less danger than the reader might have imagined, as they are all roughly 6+, very clever, and certainly skilled at what they do. More importantly, though, they have a pretty good chance of trusting each other - or at least Gad's recommendation of that person - to have their back. Which says a lot, especially after something like Skinwalkers or Winter Witch where motivations are unknown and the party members often have very little loyalty to one another. As far as a driver of tension, however, did it pay off for you? Does the reveal reduce the tension, or is that unfair to include having time to reflect on it once the book was put down?
I think the deception, including keeping other members in the group in the dark, was necessary. Plausible deniability, and all that. The whole situation with Tiberio comes to mind, about how he said deception isn't his strong suit and the possessed crusaders would be onto him soon, which happened as expected. Despite them being experienced individually and as a group, they're still aware and, most importantly, candid of their strengths and weaknesses. Again, just like in the game, this is an invaluable quality to have in a group, and one of the reasons why they were able to pull off the deception in the way that Gad and Calliard believed it had to be done. Also, one of the things about being high level is you eventually cross a threshold where the past doesn't matter too much anymore, because you're established and the rest just ceases to matter so much amongst your peers. Like the silent brooding wanderer, characters of normal levels can take one look at them and know that they've been through more than what's imaginable and can expect them to handle their business accordingly. Beside the point, if we had got into all of their personal histories the book would quite possibly have been twice as long and the plot could've easily been lost in the process.
I do like the thought that the revealed history between Gad and Jerisa was a decoy to through off his more severe relationship with Calliard. I hadn't even come close to considering that, and I think it's an astute observation that I now subscribe to. Hats off to Robin D. Laws, as that element of his writing is just as illusive as his characters.
The third question was how do you guys feel about them as a team, in the end? Gad is a great leader that pulled a lot from his associates, to be sure, but in the end it's quite different from Firesoul (where they showed hints of liking each other and wanting to actually work together). In fact, it feels very uncertain that any of them like anyone else except for Gad. Does it add to the story, or detract to include those elements? How might the story be different if they seemed more interested in one another?
I think Gad is rightfully the glue that holds them together. It's ironic that a con man is the one who keeps the group honest, reeling them in when they wander off on their other less than savory tendencies, made evident by the fact that he is always reluctant to take lives, even when seemly necessary. I'd almost be inclined to think he's chaotic good because of that. But in its own way, I think it has the tendency to both add and detract to the story, but I appreciate how the amount of either is entirely subjective to each reader.
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Order of the Amber Die
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In the Event of My Untimely Demise (ePub)
Magnimar is one of my favorite cities in Golarion. It's a little bit of the old with the new, has a vibrant diversity, both literal and figurative social tiers, and one of the defining factors of one of the most interesting region in the campaign setting. Also, these stories taking place in the City of Monuments is actually really good timing for me personally, as the Rise of the Runelords campaign that I'm in just returned there after the third module, and playing there has been just as exciting as reading about it.
I'm not quite sure what to make of our protagonist yet, as this story was but a glimpse of her everyday life, but I'm looking forward to seeing what else she gets herself into in Blood of the City. years ago when I first read about the Urban Druid archetype I didn't quite know how to feel about it, as it seems like an oxy-moron compared to just about every other type of druid in the game, including its previous editions over the decades. I had glossed over it then, but I should've taken a longer look at it because I must admit that Luma pulls it off extremely well. Having spent most of my college career plus a good part of my adult life living in a major city, I can absolutely identify with how she views her own, that it has a collective spirit made up not only of its current inhabitants, but also those who have come before. There are parts of almost every city that may look and sound (and - unfortunately - smell) the same, but as a whole no two are ever remotely alike when it comes to how they "feel" in those terms. I think Robin D. Laws has done an excellent job in conveying this in his writing, even down to Luma's spell selection, which not only has practical uses in the city, but seems very appropriate for her type of character, referring to her as a person more than as a stat block.
As for her personal life...she has it pretty rough. She's still a little bit of the "daddy's little girl" type, but in no way is she a spoiled brat, or similar aspects that make up that stereotype. She seems to be treated as a runt of the litter due to her being a half-elf, and although she's the oldest her siblings treat her exactly the opposite in terms of maturity and respect. Apparently she's also not the most experienced despite her age, but that might be a result of her often regularly excluded from the duties of her house as the black sheep of the family. At least one of her brothers treats her right, and it’s unfortunate that she feels that she has so much to prove to the others simply because of her race, in which she obviously had no choice. But I guess we'll see soon if her actions in this story make a difference.
Regarding the plot, it brought to mind something out of an episode of Law & Order, or one of the many other crime drama shows out there. Luma was an assignment, she went out with her partner and located suspects, interrogated them, got their hands dirty, figured out who was innocent and who wasn't, and solved the case. It was a little dark at the end though, just letting Gaval and Seriza die horribly, but that was the job she was given and she did exactly what the client instructed her to do, which is important to maintaining the reputation of her house.
I also think the retired adventuring group was a noteworthy part of the story. They didn't entirely seem like bumbling geriatrics trying to relive their former glory, but it was close. I'm a little curious about Rieslan though. I often wonder what process writers got through when choosing details for supporting characters, like why he was a worshipper of Hanspur all the way from the River Kingdoms. Sure, those two things go together, but neither had anything to do with any part of the story. I'm not trying to be critical, just inquisitive as to why those specific choices were made. He could've worshipped any deity and been from any region, so were those choices deliberate or just because the author thought that would be interesting? Perhaps it has something to do with Blood in the City? I suppose we'll find out soon enough. As usual, I'll post the new thread next Sat.
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I think it is fair to say Luma is Neutral with leanings toward NG in 'In the Event..' She fulfills her contract, but doesn't try to soften the blow at all.
And, yeah, this and Blood of the City really bring the urban Druid to life in a way that the archetype itself never seemed to. Magnimar isn't a pretty interesting metropolis too.
More on Luma's family when we tackle the book.