Multiple Metamagic feats with a non-prepared caster, quicken spell

[Michael Grate]

Metamagic feats, Sorcerers and bards wrote:

Therefore, such a character must also take more time to cast a metamagic spell (one enhanced by a metamagic feat) than he does to cast a regular spell. If the spell's normal casting time is a standard action, casting a metamagic version is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard. (This isn't the same as a 1-round casting time.) The only exception is for spells modified by the Quicken Spell metamagic feat, which can be cast as normal using the feat.

Metamagic feats, Multiple Metamagic Feats on a Spell wrote:

A spellcaster can apply multiple metamagic feats to a single spell. Changes to its level are cumulative. You can't apply the same metamagic feat more than once to a single spell.

So if a Bard were to cast a Persistent Hold Person then it would require a full round action using up a 4th level spell the bard can cast.

So what if I cast a Quickened Persistent Hold Person? It would use an 8th level spell the bard can cast (doable with a high enough charisma score unless I'm missing something and it simply isn't possible) but what about the action it takes to cast it? Would it go back to being a Standard action or does it become a swift action?

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

It goes to being a full round action as per the rules for metamagic casting with all metamagic other than quickened.

So for sorcerers, quickened metamagic can't be combined with any other.

[Michael Grate]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

It goes to being a full round action as per the rules for metamagic casting with all metamagic other than quickened.

So for sorcerers, quickened metamagic can't be combined with any other.

I'm assuming you're referring to this quote

Quote:

A spell whose casting time is more than 1 round or 1 full-round action cannot be quickened

but the wording makes it read like the action has to be more than a full-round action casting time to be ineligible to work. This is furthered by the fact that even reading it exactly as is, a full round action casting time is shorter than a 1 round casting time (A full-round action takes the turn but the effect takes place on that turn, a spell with a 1 round casting time takes through to your next turn which is when it immediately effect).

[dragonhunterq]

Bards don't gain 8th level spells, so it only applies to spontaneous casters able to cast higher level spells. You only gain bonus spells if you can cast spells of that level.

quicken spell wrote:

Special: You can apply the effects of this feat to a spell cast spontaneously, so long as it has a casting time that is not more than 1 full-round action, without increasing the spell's casting time.

Spontaneous casters follow the "special line", rather than the body of the feat. A spell that is 1 round to cast cannot be quickened, but full round casting time spells can be. You can cast a persistent quickened hold person, if you have a high enough spell slot available.

Adding multiple metamagic feats to a spell does not appear to increase the casting time further.

[Guru-Meditation]

Michael Grate wrote:

It would use an 8th level spell the bard can cast (doable with a high enough charisma score unless I'm missing something and it simply isn't possible) but what about the action it takes to cast it? Would it go back to being a Standard action or does it become a swift action?

You only get the bonus slots once you can actually cast spells of this level.

A Bard never, even at 20th bard level, "unlocks" the spell levels 7-9 to get bonus slots in them.

[Belafon]

Core Rulebook FAQ wrote:

Bonus Spells from a High Ability Score: Can I use these even if my spellcasting class level isn't high enough to give me access to those spell levels?

No. You only get the bonus spells if your class level grants you access to those spell levels. You can't even use them for lower-level spells. See page 16, Abilities and Spellcasters section: "In addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of a high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level. "

For example, a 1st-level wizard with 18 Intelligence has (according to table 1–3: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells) 1 bonus spell at spell levels 1, 2, and 3. However, he can only use the 1st-level bonus spell because as a 1st-level wizard he only has access to 1st-level spells (his class-based number of 2nd- and 3rd-level spells per day are "—", meaning "no access to spells of this level"). As soon as he becomes a 3rd-level wizard, he gains access to his 2nd-level spell slots and can use that bonus 2nd-level spell slot from his high Intelligence, and likewise for 3rd-level spells and bonus spells at wizard level 5.

Basically, ignore the columns for higher-level spells on table 1–3: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells until your class grants you access to those spell levels.

[Michael Grate]

Thank you all for this information