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You can change anything about your character before you play above 1st level.
That includes alignment.
Yea, just i thought that raw it can be read that "new" build must be "legal" - all restrictions must be made and etc.
Actually, alignment is one of those things you can even change at higher levels.
Yea, but it most about "hard work" :D
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You can change anything about your character before you play above 1st level.
That includes alignment.
Yea, just i thought that raw it can be read that "new" build must be "legal" - all restrictions must be made and etc.
This is true. The new character must be legal by the rules. Both Pathfinder rules and the rules for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Guild.
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@Derek: PFS has specific rules for rebuilding your PC who has never been played above 1st level, and retraining your higher level but played PC.
For the OP: Remember that your rebuilt PC must follow the PFS rules and the PFRPG rules for legality, including that first level feat being a legal feat at first level, if using the 1st level PC rebuild rules from the Guide. When using the retraining rules from Ultimate Campaign for higher level retrains, the new feat only needs to be legal for the level you retrain into it.
For example:
Using 1st level rebuild, you cannot take a feat requiring a +1 BAB in the rebuild, unless your first level class has a +1 BAB.
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Yea, just i thought that raw it can be read that "new" build must be "legal" - all restrictions must be made and etc.You can change anything about your character before you play above 1st level.
That includes alignment.
I think I misunderstood your OP.
Do you mean (for example) playing an "Ex-Paladin" at level 1? As in, a non-LG Paladin? Or non-lawful Monk?
I don't immediately see any problems with this, especially since you'd be at an extreme disadvantage.
Maybe on the walk to the VC briefing you decided to kick a newborn litter of puppies, just for funsies, and by the time you reached the Lodge Erastil took away your powers?
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Yes I got that from the title at the top of the page.
That may be true, but your comments do not jive with the rules of this campaign. It would be appreciated and helpful if you would refer to the rules of the campaign HERE so you can understand the nuances of the rules and focus your comments within the scope of those rules to prevent any confusion players may have regarding this topic. If you want to discuss general character rebuilding in Pathfinder, please use the appropriate forums for that topic. Thanks.
Explore! Report! Cooperate!
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What is a class that is good early game but is still relevant late game?
Any can be. It is not hard to relevant.
For an easy build example sorcerer with magic missle and color spray for low levels. When those start to wear out haste become available and you are now friends with most martials.
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OP, I think you need to explain in more detail.
Okay, what i want to do -
1 level - lawfull monkrebuild - nonlawfull monk
2 level - nonlawfull barbarian
3+ level - nonlawfull gunslinger/rouge or brawler
This is my plan for two characters that i have in mind - one of them sought peace at the monastery, but lust for revenge (damn aspis) was too strong to handle with it, and he started to remembering his "old" work (yea, a minor reference to Hitman :D), second wanted to join monks just because he wanted to fight, but seeing that them all are realy boring decided to go his own way,
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Venture-Agent, Missouri—St. Louis
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OP, I think you need to explain in more detail.Okay, what i want to do -
1 level - lawfull monk
rebuild - nonlawfull monk
2 level - nonlawfull barbarian
3+ level - nonlawfull gunslinger/rouge or brawler
This is my plan for two characters that i have in mind - one of them sought peace at the monastery, but lust for revenge (damn aspis) was too strong to handle with it, and he started to remembering his "old" work (yea, a minor reference to Hitman :D), second wanted to join monks just because he wanted to fight, but seeing that them all are realy boring he decided to go his own way.
You might take a look at the Martial Artist archetype. It allows nonlawful characters, and trades out things that you'd lose by switching alignment.
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You might take a look at the Martial Artist archetype. It allows nonlawful characters, and trades out things that you'd lose by switching alignment.OP, I think you need to explain in more detail.Okay, what i want to do -
1 level - lawfull monk
rebuild - nonlawfull monk
2 level - nonlawfull barbarian
3+ level - nonlawfull gunslinger/rouge or brawler
This is my plan for two characters that i have in mind - one of them sought peace at the monastery, but lust for revenge (damn aspis) was too strong to handle with it, and he started to remembering his "old" work (yea, a minor reference to Hitman :D), second wanted to join monks just because he wanted to fight, but seeing that them all are realy boring he decided to go his own way.
The problem is that it replacing too many features and do not allow any other archetype, and it is not available for unchained monk.
You can change anything about your character, name, gender, class, alignment, skills, feats, stats, etc. The only things you are locked into are consumables purchased and used and PP purchases.
This might be a good place to ask this:
How much is acceptable and how much is expected? Let's say I want an unarmed Rogue that won't play well until level 2. Can I play a dual shortsword Rogue at 1 and switch him to an unarmed Monk1/Rogue1 at level 2 with the understanding that Monk was my level 1 choice (refunding my masterwork shortsword and armor purchases)? For that matter, can I make a level 1 Elven Sorcerer that specializes in Sleep to play through 1st level and switch him to a human summons specialist Wizard at 2 (when his summons start lasting longer)?
I understand that I can do the things above, RAW. But I'm asking to get the idea of RAW vs etiquette so I don't hold back too much (and disadvantage the group) or go too far (and annoy or the group or decrease the level of fun at the table).
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As you said, any amount of rebuilding is legal. What will be seen as "cheesy" will depend on your group. If you intentionally build something to survive level 1, then switch to something completely different at level 2, and everyone knows that you did it intentionally, then that kinda goes against the spirit of the rules a little. It's legal, but whether people will disapprove will depend on the local group.
It'll also depend on if they notice. If you're switching back and forth between multiple PCs, and playing at more than one venue, then the local groups might not notice if you rebuild.
In my case, I have so many PCs and play in so many places that when I decided to scrap a PC I hadn't played in over 2 years, and start over with a completely different race and class, nobody noticed. And even if I told them, they wouldn't care. But that was definitely a case of making the original PC with good intentions and rebuilding it after deciding I didn't like it.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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You might take a look at the Martial Artist archetype. It allows nonlawful characters, and trades out things that you'd lose by switching alignment.OP, I think you need to explain in more detail.Okay, what i want to do -
1 level - lawfull monk
rebuild - nonlawfull monk
2 level - nonlawfull barbarian
3+ level - nonlawfull gunslinger/rouge or brawler
This is my plan for two characters that i have in mind - one of them sought peace at the monastery, but lust for revenge (damn aspis) was too strong to handle with it, and he started to remembering his "old" work (yea, a minor reference to Hitman :D), second wanted to join monks just because he wanted to fight, but seeing that them all are realy boring he decided to go his own way.
Ex-Monks
A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities.
you can switch to a non lawful alignment any time you want, and since you don't lose any abilities, you are fine and don't even need to rebuild to do it. In fact, you could start your first game session as non-lawful (Yes, he was trained as a monk, but joined the pathfinders because the monastery kicked him out.)
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You can change anything about your character, name, gender, class, alignment, skills, feats, stats, etc. The only things you are locked into are consumables purchased and used and PP purchases.This might be a good place to ask this:
How much is acceptable and how much is expected? Let's say I want an unarmed Rogue that won't play well until level 2. Can I play a dual shortsword Rogue at 1 and switch him to an unarmed Monk1/Rogue1 at level 2 with the understanding that Monk was my level 1 choice (refunding my masterwork shortsword and armor purchases)? For that matter, can I make a level 1 Elven Sorcerer that specializes in Sleep to play through 1st level and switch him to a human summons specialist Wizard at 2 (when his summons start lasting longer)?
I understand that I can do the things above, RAW. But I'm asking to get the idea of RAW vs etiquette so I don't hold back too much (and disadvantage the group) or go too far (and annoy or the group or decrease the level of fun at the table).
I once played with a level 1 Barbarian with 18 Str and 7 Int, Wis and Cha. Did that character stay that way when it hit level 2? No. And the player was very upfront with the fact that he was going to go someplace completely different with the character at level 2.
I think most players might look a little sideways but not really care.
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If he just wanted to make a barbarian to survive level 1, then change to something different at level 2, that 18 score should have been constitution, not strength. And it should have been a 20.
We had a thread joking about this concept a couple of years back, trying to figure out the most survivable possible PC for level 1. The obvious would be a 20 con barbarian with toughness and favored class bonus for 21 HP at level 1, and able to survive down to -20. So even a crit from an enemy would need to do more than 40 HP damage to kill you in one shot. But I think there was some cheese to get even more HP than that, which I'm not remembering now.
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We had a thread joking about this concept a couple of years back, trying to figure out the most survivable possible PC for level 1. The obvious would be a 20 con barbarian with toughness and favored class bonus for 21 HP at level 1, and able to survive down to -20. So even a crit from an enemy would need to do more than 40 HP damage to kill you in one shot. But I think there was some cheese to get even more HP than that, which I'm not remembering now.
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@Kitty: You might want to think about Color Spray instead of Sleep. At first level, unless your meatshields are doing their jobs properly, Sleep is an invitation to a killing.
Color Spray is a standard action cast.
Sleep is a full round cast, so you start it, but it doesn't go off until the start of your next turn. And if you take damage between starting to cast, and when it goes off, it forces a concentration check, at a minimum, if not a stabilization check.
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@kinevon: Just to be clear, sleep is a 1 round spell, not full-round. A full-round spell wouldn't spill over into another turn as the 1 round spell would. Otherwise, I do agree with your assessment.
Sorry, that bit of terminology always escapes me, and I am posting during the Saturday lull at work (Lull? Heh. I have had one call since I started work 2 and a half hours ago, and I work as telephone technical support...)