Does hitting a fire elemental damage your weapons?

[Kalridian]

As far as I know, it doesn't, because it doesn't say so anywhere in the creatures profile, but in the text for durable arrows, we find the following:

Durable Arrow wrote:

Durable arrows can be broken in other ways (such as deliberate snapping, hitting a fire elemental, and so on).

Of course, if you hit a fire elemental with any normal arrow, it breaks, because that's, what ammunition does, when it hits.

But the one and only function of durable arrows is to NOT break on impact.

Is this a holdover from some older edition or something?

[FLite]

Hitting a fire elemental *should* damage your weapons. But weirdly it doesn't:

Burn wrote:

Burn (Ex) A creature with the burn special attack deals fire damage in addition to damage dealt on a successful hit in melee. Those affected by the burn ability must also succeed on a Reflex save or catch fire, taking the listed damage for an additional 1d4 rounds at the start of its turn (DC 10 + 1/2 burning creature's racial HD + burning creature's Con modifier). A burning creature can attempt a new save as a full-round action. Dropping and rolling on the ground grants a +4 bonus on this save. Creatures that hit a burning creature with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the burning creature and must make a Reflex save to avoid catching on fire.

Format: burn (2d6, DC 15); Location: Special Attacks and individual attacks.

Maybe someone misread that rule and thought it applied to all attacks?

[lemeres]

Unlikely an issue.

Generally, looking at the various abilities that apply damage when you hit a creature, it isn't an issue. Objects typically take only 1/2 damage from energy attacks and even wooden weapons have at least 5 hardness- enough that it generally never comes up. The damage from things like burn is rarely enough to make a notable dent- particularly with the scale of enemies versus the scaling of magic enhancements (that increase hardness)

The thing with durable arrow here is that it is most likly going to be left sticking in the fire elemental for several rounds. Not very good for long term use.

[Pizza Lord]

Like lemeres says, it's unlikely an issue for all the reasons stated. Most weapons at worst risk 1 hit point of damage per strike (if even). Only in an unlikely case should any weapon be damaged from just hitting an elemental and that will probably be because it's not a normal weapon.

For instance, if you're using an unlit torch as an improvised weapon, then certainly it might catch fire because it's flammable (but even then it doesn't really get damaged, it just catches on fire.) Possibly a net or lasso that's been thrown over/around the fire elemental you can rule burns through, but that's more of a prolonged contact thing.

I would really only expect fragile or highly flammable weapons to be in any real danger, like a paper combat fan or rolled-up newspaper and that should be a call based on that situation.

[Kalridian]

@ Pizza Lord (Jim Butcher reference, by the way?)

I would of course rule something like that at my table, because everything else makes very little sense, but at the moment I'm looking for RAW, that I might not know about, not for GM common sense. ;)

[Pizza Lord]

kalridian wrote:

@ Pizza Lord (Jim Butcher reference, by the way

No, it is not a reference to the Jim Butcher series. My use of the name predates that, just a little bit. It's actually because I am a pizza man, with narcissistic tendencies. I am aware of the reference to the story character by fey creatures from a search of the word Pizza Lord online (Why? Narcissistic tendencies, of course.)

Quote:

I would of course rule something like that at my table, because everything else makes very little sense, but at the moment I'm looking for RAW, that I might not know about, not for GM common sense. ;)

By RAW, nothing happens to a weapon striking them. So that will answer and end your search. Unfortunately, you're asking a question involving a non-standard piece of equipment and as such, the answer is going to be determined by how you rule the situation.

A durable arrow doesn't break. That doesn't necessarily mean it 'sticks' in the target. You could say it flies through (still damaging), fire elementals have substance but they're surprisingly light, with bodies probably like ash. You could say the arrow hit, but the enemy pulls it out and drops it to the ground (just as part of being shot). Obviously if you say the arrow stays in contact with flame, then it should react appropriately, however.

Again though, by RAW, the Burn affect doesn't come into play when a creature hits the target with anything other than natural or unarmed attacks. You're going to have problems and strange situations however. Let's say you have a character swinging a weapon at a fire elemental with Burn, by RAW, nothing happens; not to the weapon, not to the attacker. Then the character drops the weapon and the fire elemental picks it up. Nothing about Burn says anything happens to carried or such items (though there might be a specific exception, salamanders might add additional fire damage to handheld weapons), but regardless of the Burn ability, if the creature is constantly on fire, you should take that into account.

Take this continuing example: the fire elemental drops the weapon and you cast animate or something on it. Now it's basically an animated object. Now when the weapon hits the fire elemental that should be considered a natural attack from the animated object. So now the weapon does take damage (animated objects keep their hardness and such, so it's still unlikely to be damaged in any meaningful way) and it also potentially has to make a Reflex save or catch fire. It doesn't really make sense why it wouldn't catch fire when someone swings it, but does catch fire when it swings itself. There's no RAW answer you can give for it.

To top it all off, the player is then going to ask you if the animated weapon now deals extra fire damage when it hits, because it's on fire (obviously not a problem for the fire elemental), and that's a valid, reasonable question. Well, you're gonna find out that, by RAW, it doesn't, but that doesn't make sense, since a flaming sword deals damage. Sure that's magical, but even an oil-coated blade set aflame deals extra damage, so why not a weapon that's been set on fire by Burn. You're just gonna have to settle for RAW not really being an option on this one.
;) <---- this is a smiley face to keep things light-hearted.

[Qaianna]

I can see Burn not affecting melee weapons; the contact is pretty minimal there. But you should let the barbarian know to not bite the fire elemental and just stick with her greataxe, yeah.

Looking at it, I can't imagine a brief bit of contact with even a stick of wood being enough for flames to damage it, but flesh is a bit more fragile.

I do recall some creatures, whether in Pathfinder or earlier, having an ability where as long as you were melee in 5' you took the damage. To me this meant not hosing monks and natural attackers as badly. Reach weapons were exempt, naturally.