Hello people,
I'm in somewhat of a predicament.
Situation: the party, along with some NPC temporary allied thugs, have boarded a viking ship.
The viking captain is quite a brute and deals his share of damage. A minimum of 14 with his axe and power attack.
The group is level 4 and not even near the end of the (homebrew) campaign.
The only conscious target adjacent to him, unless he 5ft steps into the rest of them, is a disabled (prone) PC who readied an attack.
Now if the captain rolls a hit on his attack roll, the guy's dead.
Any of the others still standing up could drop into KO, if he takes a 5ft step closer into their midst.
If i'm to spare any of them either fate, the captain would have to run...which is both not the viking way as well as it gives the party the feeling of not having beaten the captain who ordered one of them taken hostage.
What are your thoughts on this?
Kill them. All of them! The fools should not have jumped onto another man's ship in such a disrespectful manner!
But in all seriousness, if you kill one of them, the others can just run away. If they're smart, that's what they'll do. So just go for it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You need to play them like they make sense. He hay kill the downed PC, he may deem him not a threat and charge at someone else, but the man isn't going to flee a figh HE'S WINNING on his own ship. That makes no sense.
If it's a prone PC nothing but the grace of god (ie you rolling a 1) will prevent their death, as there is basically no way to miss with that extra +4 to hit a prone target the viking has got.
You could argue the viking doesn't fear the PCs, and so would willingly wade into the thick of melee, instead of deliberately finishing off the closest one. Typically NPCs tend to ignore disabled PCs as they pose no threat though also.
My suggestion: Wade into melee, provoke disabled PCs readied attack, he then starts bleeding out unconscious, and hope the others can finish off the viking. If you really want to downplay things you can always turn off power attack since in my experience, a lot of DMs don't deliberately abuse power attack like a PC does. The difference in HP is just too great.
Lastly: Give the PCs a friendly reminder fleeing is a always an option. Though a less favorable one for said disabled prone PC.
@ mourge40k:
Unless that one taken hostage was to be left and taken home against her will...nothing disrespectful. The captain even boasted them to enter if they wanted her back.
Rynjin, that's my feeling exactly.
Yet they likely have to rely on the NPCs to finish the job, as their own rolls haven't been on a good ratio against him.
The captain gets off 2 attacks per round and can take another, oh, 18 or 20 damage.
Heretek, that's not a bad idea.
At level 4 a dice roll gone wrong could kill a character still, so it depends what you want.
I personally think bosses should be hard, but beatable. Especially if campaign-wise they have to fight him.
I usually kill my PCs only when:
- They go in underprepared
- They pick a fight with something I have made clear is beyond them]
- They do something else monumentally stupid (not to be confused with heroic, charging abyssal sorcerer for a last ditch at a kill with his claws screams win)
That being said, PCs do die, but I will refrain from TPK with fudging dice and/or rule of cool. Ie, not attacking a downed character, foregoing power attack while attack something I perceive to have high AC, taking a defensive move etc. But sometimes a fireball or a Great-axe just take out a character, adventures also need to be dangerous.
That being said, I finished my last campaign with my group going after a CR 14 Cleric without resting. They believed they were on a clock, I was convinced they knew they could rest. To make matters worse, I put a Blade Barrier on top of a character who was unable to move (hold person or somesuch). Worst mistake I ever made, so guess you should take everything I say with a grain of salt :))
On the situation:
Turn of Power Attack, eat the readied attack and just knock'em out if you do win the fight. Naked on a life-boat or on an island with only a cache of rum (which is always gone) should allow you to proceed with your campaign.
I agree with Rambear's advice. Players (usually) put a lot of thought and plannng into their characters. Killing them willy nilly is a great way to piss them off and make them not want to come back. A PC should only be killed if they do something profoundly idiotic.
Perhaps, the viking boss decides to spare the PC,hit him with non-lethal damage in order to knock him out, with the plan to pressgang him into service as a slave rower. If the PCs killed a few minions on the ship, the Viking Captain needs the man power, especially if a storm is coming their way.
As long as character deaths are infrequent they are a good and fun reminder that adventuring is dangerous, especially when their death is well played.
I am from the school that TPKs are not really ever warranted, except maybe in the most extreme circumstances. Even if realistic, it is just not really fun unless the players just want to start over.
In this situation I would back off the PA but continue to press the attack. Maybe the captain is now cocky that he is going to win and acts a little foolishly.
Probably one or two deaths may be warranted here. You should maybe switch to a more 'cinematic' style for the rest of the fight.
Hello people,
I'm in somewhat of a predicament.
Situation: the party, along with some NPC temporary allied thugs, have boarded a viking ship.The viking captain is quite a brute and deals his share of damage. A minimum of 14 with his axe and power attack.
The group is level 4 and not even near the end of the (homebrew) campaign.The only conscious target adjacent to him, unless he 5ft steps into the rest of them, is a disabled (prone) PC who readied an attack.
Now if the captain rolls a hit on his attack roll, the guy's dead.Any of the others still standing up could drop into KO, if he takes a 5ft step closer into their midst.
If i'm to spare any of them either fate, the captain would have to run...which is both not the viking way as well as it gives the party the feeling of not having beaten the captain who ordered one of them taken hostage.
What are your thoughts on this?
He's a viking right? Just have him threaten the PC with the blood eagle if he doesn't surrender and if he refuses have him give a thunderous laugh and offer the PCs honorable terms for their surrender. Why is the viking sailing around anyway? He might be impressed by their curage and find himself somehow in need of allies to complete a quest...
Viking culture did take slaves, and ransom captives. If you want to give the character a chance then have the Viking knock him out with the idea of selling him latter.
Another thing to consider is if he is a 5 foot step from the other characters they can also five foot step to reach him. Would the captain view the other characters as threats? If so he may move away from the disable charter and try and take out a more serious threat. Could he five foot step in a way that he can attack one of the characters but the other characters would not be able to attack him? If so that may be a more advantageous action, and at the same time spare the disabled PC.
Unless I am running a particularly bloodthirsty or vengeful enemy, I rarely have them attack downed enemies. Once the entire party is down they will either then begin to coup de grade, or depending on the situation capture them and demand something from them.
Also, only ruthlessly kill players if you have let them know this is a merciless campaign. Right now I'm playing a "Dark Souls" campaign which I'm immensely enjoying despite how easy it is to get killed.
---and if he refuses have him give a thunderous laugh and offer the PCs honorable terms for their surrender.
He's in hybrid form. [Howl]
Wolf shifter, so it'd be tricky. Unless i drop him out of rage, causing a lot of fatigue on him.Also, he's hired by the family of the Irissen party member for 'retrieval', as was his family over the many years. That's why he's docked.
I can work with the suggestions here. Thanks guys.
|
There is really so many ways for you to softball a bit to your players in order to prevent TPK. I am not saying that you should completely avoid killing them, but some GMs tend to look at damage numbers only.
You can instead:
- Spend a round Intimidating several other character to surrender
- Boast entire round how pathetic characters are
- Use less effective CMB checks such as sunder or trip in which he isn't trained
- Try to issue orders and organize his crew and support
- Spend a round chugging some less effective potion
- Not use PW on downed (but conscious) PC.
You are cornering yourself pointlessly. You don't have to kill or not kill PCs in such case, you simply stall the fight as long as possible. If he wins after 3-4 rounds, PCs got what they deserved and even then, you can simply enslave them, and start a new adventure in that way.
Adam
I would not pull any punches against the players because:
1: It can ruin the tone of what may be a serious setting, spoiling the suspension of disbelief.
2: It can spoil Players into thinking everything will always end up for the better.
3: There are no real consequences to failure.
That being stated as a DM, you do not always have to go for the coup de grace. I would agree with the above statements for capture. It would shift the campaign into what could be a fun side-story of escape, and then its up to the PCs whether or not they want to go for Round 2 with their captor or cut their losses and happily flee. The only instance where I fudge rolls is when a player runs into a Save or Suck moment that they are completely helpless and innocent against. Fights are not one of those instances.
The good thing is that you are not dealing with hard lethal effects. It sucks adventuring next to someone hit by Disintegrate. Like, Gee DM, thanks for that because at Party Level 7 we totally have ways to deal with that without a Cleric.
Wolf Shifter and in Rage? Hope your dude doesn't do the carnivore thing and start digging in as soon as he downs a player.
Hum personally , i prefer to not have dead PCs , while it may happen sometimes.
First i would drop the power attack and make the captain more into a capture guy than a kill guy , like others here said.
I dont remember the exact rules , but cant you just change this last attack of him into non lethal damage? So he takes out the PC but the PC stays alive anyway?
Also, only ruthlessly kill players if you have let them know this is a merciless campaign. Right now I'm playing a "Dark Souls" campaign which I'm immensely enjoying despite how easy it is to get killed.
I remember playing a "Demon Souls" one back in the day , hah great times. While to be fair i did find the lack of NPCs a bit... annoying.
I side with taking of slaves. You are the DM, so it's within your rights to "fudge" just enough damage to let the pcs live. This might also be a cool moment for the PC that has escape artist ranks. Give that PC the I saved everyone crown for the day, while they make an escape.
In game, the Captain could reason that if the PCs were strong enough to challenge him, their strong enough to be good stock to a miner or as a rower.
I know it's probably too late to weigh in here, but I'd have cut of the prone PC's leg. You could always have him/her survive it, but having a permanently crippled character is a good way to make it seem like there's real danger (and that "crippled" character can get a wooden leg and just take a -5 movement and acrobatics in the long run, but now they have more character).
Just my 2 cents.
Have your viking kick a prone/downed PC into the drink, if the now wet PC is unconcious, make clear to the other party members that they will drown if not helped. Use this as a method to spilt the party - any who fall unconcious on the boat are taken prisoner, any who dived in have to find dry land.
From there the party needs to focus on regrouping, and, in a couple of levels, challange the viking to a rematch.
I have been there many times. There are many ways out of this situation.
1) The captain readies an attack against all but complete surrender of the party. We had something similar to this happen to us in an Age of Worms campaign, except we were winning. Link
2) The rest of the crew take advantage of the situation to get rid of a brutal pirate leader and are hoping to jump in when the pirate leader is beatable. An interesting three-way combat develops, with the minions trying to be the last ones standing.
3) One of the hired NPC thugs is an agent of good with more powers than he has let on. Or he is a master rogue or assassin who takes this opportunity to take out the captain.
4) The pirate kills the downed PC with his axe. It happens to be a special reaping axe, and the PC rises as his undead shadow servant to fight the others. Furthermore, the event is so shocking, it requires and incredible Fear DC to avoid running away. Obviously the pirate is unbeatable and the players should surrender or get turned into shadows one by one. Freeing the PCs from their undead curse requires further adventuring. PC shadows have limited control over their actions for while.
Since you are in the realm of Homebrew, you can do many cool things. And I believe in the rule of cool.
One thought, to steal a line from one of my favorite authors: "Why kill what you can sell?"
If you don't want a TPK. Have them sold into slavery, chained to the oars. Their mission is to escape.
You'll have to decide if your players will appreciate this.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would not pull any punches against the players because:
1: It can ruin the tone of what may be a serious setting, spoiling the suspension of disbelief.
2: It can spoil Players into thinking everything will always end up for the better.
3: There are no real consequences to failure.
I've seen many more campaigns destroyed by the above attitude than I've seen ones that succeed with it.
If the players are there for the tactical combat portion of the game, the above attitude can work. Even then, it can wreck the fun if every opponent is a vicious killer. In general, you can't question a dead man. You certainly can't use them as slave labor or sell them as slaves.
Not every player wants to play on "hard mode".
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Vikings. You shouldve stopped explaining there because...DEATH OR GLORY!
I would attack him if he was conscious and hope its not a crit. If he was not conscious then go after someone else.
Another thing I do is try to avoid PC's before level 5, by making fights easier from the beginning. As they level up I dont hold back as much.
