Shunning religion vs. divine healing


Pathfinder Society

2/5

I had an interesting situation during a recent convention. I was playing a cleric, and two of the players at one table were constantly talking about how religions were false, I was an arcane caster deluding myself into thinking I talked to a god, etc. They had their in-game reasons for this, of course, but I was still upset by it. My question, is it considered being a jerk to tell them to stop badmouthing my choice of religion or else I'll keep the divine magics away from them, and actually following through on it? I did threaten them with that, but when they got low on HP I still made sure they were healed. I'm just wondering how to handle something like that.

Any advice would be appreciated. I think I handled it well, but I'm wondering where that line is?

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Tell them to cough up for a wand of infernal healing if they don't like how the gods are doing it.

5/5

Cure light Wounds is an arcane spell as well.
Were you upset by it or was your character? If your character was but you are fine it is a good chance for roleplaying. If it was upsetting you then explain that to them and ask them to ease off.
As to how your character should react, it depends on a few things:

Does your character view them as dangerous heretics or poor misguided delusional fools?

How is your deity the eternally forgiving sort (say Sheyln) or perhaps a bit more militant(Gorum).

There are arguments for both of the following:
"You poor fools I will heal; you anyway perhaps feeling the power of my god heal your wounds will open your eyes to the truth"

"Heathens if you blaspheme and reject my god you reject his gifts as well!"

Upsetting characters is fun and interesting, upsetting players is not try and keep the two separate

Silver Crusade Venture-Agent, Florida–Altamonte Springs

It does not break the "Don't be a Jerk" rule to tell other players "don't be a jerk." It's jerky to make those kinds of statements that were made at you.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

I don't think we really have enough information about the situation to make a definitive judgement on whether they were being "jerks." Maybe they were just trying to role-play their characters. Of course, that is not an excuse if they were being disruptive about it. I think it would be refreshing for players of characters who make claims like this to refuse to be the recipient of a "false" god's graces if they truly feel that way and I would support a player who's character withheld divine support if they pushed the issue far enough.
I have atheist characters myself and while they do not believe in divine power per say, they cannot argue with the healing that a [insert divine class here] provides. That's a tangible effect regardless of where it comes from.

4/5

Jerky behavior is in the eye of the beholder...well, maybe the froghemoth given the licensing, but you get the picture.

If other players are detracting from your fun at the table because they're going over-the-top, it's ok to politely ask that they tone it back. They may have very valid in-character reasons for their words and actions, but this is a game and, as such, players should respect each others' feelings. It sounds like you felt bullied to some degree.

Most players aren't jerks, but sometimes jerky behavior comes out. Asking politely is usually enough to have someone tone back the behavior to acceptable levels.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Serisan wrote:
If other players are detracting from your fun at the table because they're going over-the-top, it's ok to politely ask that they tone it back. They may have very valid in-character reasons for their words and actions, but this is a game and, as such, players should respect each others' feelings. It sounds like you felt bullied to some degree.

yeah, no. There has to be some allowance for what the other person is actually doing, not just what someone is perceiving. Otherwise everyone is a jerk for doing everything because someone is going to be offended by it.

Its really hard to imagine a situation where people talking in character about an imaginary deity (you know what i mean. Dont...:) ) could possibly elevate it to be a comment on the player. This is a role playing game, people are going to say things in character and PFS doesn't offer you the time in the spotlight or sandbox required to be subtle about characterization. The players know their character is wrong.

As for the reaction it really should vary by deity. While you can always justify any stance, a Saranite is far more likely to keep healing them than say a cleric of Abadar.

Letting them burn their wand charges is a bit of role playing. Letting them die would be crossing the line into jerk. If they're REALLY bad about it, just cast stabilize on them and prop them up against the wall.

4/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Serisan wrote:
If other players are detracting from your fun at the table because they're going over-the-top, it's ok to politely ask that they tone it back. They may have very valid in-character reasons for their words and actions, but this is a game and, as such, players should respect each others' feelings. It sounds like you felt bullied to some degree.

yeah, no. There has to be some allowance for what the other person is actually doing, not just what someone is perceiving. Otherwise everyone is a jerk for doing everything because someone is going to be offended by it.

Its really hard to imagine a situation where people talking in character about an imaginary deity (you know what i mean. Dont...:) ) could possibly elevate it to be a comment on the player. This is a role playing game, people are going to say things in character and PFS doesn't offer you the time in the spotlight or sandbox required to be subtle about characterization. The players know their character is wrong.

As for the reaction it really should vary by deity. While you can always justify any stance, a Saranite is far more likely to keep healing them than say a cleric of Abadar.

Letting them burn their wand charges is a bit of role playing. Letting them die would be crossing the line into jerk. If they're REALLY bad about it, just cast stabilize on them and prop them up against the wall.

There is a difference between asking them to tone it back and asking them to stop. I'm not suggesting that we should disallow RP between Pharasmans and necromancers, for instance, but if it's to the point where you feel uncomfortable at the table and would consider walking away, a polite request is a better step to take.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

First, the in-game aspects to it. I'm completely fine with you declining to use magical healing between encounters. Opinions will vary, but you aren't obligated to heal them unless that's the extent of what you bring to the table. The line here should be when it's clear that decision will cause a character death. You shouldn't let an in-character grudge prevent you from using a renewable resource to prevent large non-renewable resource loss on someone else's part without them consenting. If them not getting fully healed between encounters causes the same thing (lucky crit drops them to dead when it wouldn't have if had been fully healed) that's not the same level of slight.

Second, with certain exceptions that I'll go into later, they're not jerks until they know that they're being hurtful to the player. If you ask them to tone it down because it's bugging you and damaging your fun and they scoff, they can be called jerks then. If you clam up because you're upset and they don't pick up on the social cues (gamers aren't really known for our adeptness there), you're the jerk if you punish them for it. Roleplaying your character within reason isn't punishing.

Now, the exceptions. There are different reasons people make different characters. Sometimes it's to play with what it'd be like to have drastically different views. Sometimes it's a way to have plausible deniability and spread awful views. If you have a "traditional" cleric of Erastil who harasses women that they should be taking care of their families and, to a lesser extent, the men that they should put down roots and help their community it could go different ways. If you make it clear the character is saying that and you don't agree, great. If you wink to indicate it's playful (ok, maybe not wink because 90% of winks are creepy), great. If you play it straight and don't show that your character is misogynistic but you aren't that might cause problems.

Similarly, I can imagine the mockery of the gods being such that it's a way to let people know how you feel about actual religions. If the character is just serving as a mouthpiece for your own feelings against religion, that doesn't belong at the gaming table. There are places to have conversations about that, but the way I see people talk about it can cross the line into jerk-y. And I'm an atheist.

Grand Lodge 5/5

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Just remind them what the consequences of ignoring the gods is after this life is....

And if they don't like/believe in your gods, Asmodeus is always willing to grant arcane heretics healing at a small price. All they need to do to accept the contract is cast infernal healing.

Don't worry, if all gods and devils are magical delusions, there won't be an eternity of torture awaiting them....

Silver Crusade 4/5

Rahadoum is a fine example of shunning deities.

Silver Crusade 4/5

If you fall to the enemy for failing to accept divine healing, Grandmother Crow demands that I tap you with the healing stick first, and then beat you with it after you are conscious and feeling better.


Provided they are not trying to be jerks, you should try to find a way to justify helping them.
Out of curiosity what deity does your cleric worship?

If you absolutely can't justify healing them if they persist, inform them out of character and give them the opportunity to tone it down.

Liberty's Edge

Great RP opportunity.

Will you accept the divine mercy of (insert your deity's name) now ?

Say it louder please, so that all can hear ;-)

5/5

Hima Flametinker III wrote:
Rahadoum is a fine example of shunning deities.

And the plagues that it currently suffers serve as a fine warning

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