Question #1
Brawlers get Close Weapon Mastery which says:
"At 5th level, a brawler's damage with close weapons increases. When wielding a close weapon, she uses the unarmed strike damage of a brawler 4 levels lower instead of the base damage for that weapon (for example, a 5th-level Medium brawler wielding a punching dagger deals 1d6 points of damage instead of the weapon's normal 1d4). If the weapon normally deals more damage than this amount, its damage is unchanged. This ability does not affect any other aspect of the weapon. The brawler can decide to use the weapon's base damage instead of her adjusted unarmed strike damage—this decision must be declared before the attack roll is made."
So a medium Shield Champion wielding a medium sized heavy steel shield would do the following damage:
5th - 7th = 1d6
8th - 11th = 1d8
However, under the Returning Shield ability that takes the place of Brawler's Strike it says:
"At 12th level, a shield champion can use her unarmed strike damage when dealing damage with a shield (whether in melee or as a thrown weapon) or the shield's damage, whichever is greater."
To me that means that at 12th level the damage for the same Brawler shown above goes to 2d6, because that is the unarmed damage of a 12th level medium sized brawler, correct?
It seems like that is what it is saying, but I was confused at how a shield would ever do "greater" damage than that.
Question #2
This is really more of a clarification or support for what I think is the case in this situation.
With the FAQ on March 27th, 2015 for the CRB regarding size increases and damage increases it says that effective size increases to damage of a similar kind do not stack. So, I could have one increase in size category damage if I physically became larger (ie Enlarge Person, Righteous Might) and I can have another increase(s) that is a damage dice step increase (ie Bashing, Impact, Lead Blades).
I want to be sure that what that is saying is that Impact on the offensive enchantment side of a shield and Bashing on the defensive enchantment side of a shield will NOT stack, correct?
So, I could get larger via a spell or effect and then have Bashing on my shield to increase the damage dice but Impact would be wasted to add to the shield as well is the way I read it.
Thanks for the time and input!
Answer/Opinion 1: The "whichiver is greater" wording is there probably future-proofing in case there's a future archetype that stacks with shield champion and that gives up the brawler's increased unarmed strike damage.
Answer/Opinion 2: For close weapon mastery and shield champion's level 12 ability where your shield does your unarmed damage, if you become enlarged, your shield would do more damage, yes. But only because your unarmed attacks has been enlarged.
That wouldn't stack with things like impact or lead blades applied to the shield since those would just be modifying the actual shield's damage, not your unarmed attack. medium impact heavy shield would just go from 1d4 to 1d6, large shield would do 1d8. Since your brawler unarmed damage would be greater than does at higher levels, you'd use the unarmed damage rather than caring about impact/lead blade/(virtual) size changes to the shield itself.
Answer/Opinion 2: For close weapon mastery and shield champion's level 12 ability where your shield does your unarmed damage, if you become enlarged, your shield would do more damage, yes. But only because your unarmed attacks has been enlarged.
That wouldn't stack with things like impact or lead blades applied to the shield since those would just be modifying the actual shield's damage, not your unarmed attack. medium impact heavy shield would just go from 1d4 to 1d6, large shield would do 1d8. Since your brawler unarmed damage would be greater than does at higher levels, you'd use the unarmed damage rather than caring about impact/lead blade/(virtual) size changes to the shield itself.
I would disagree with this statement. I do see where you are coming from and how you could read the ability as just being the damage from the unarmed strike. However, that means that if I have a +5 close weapon, then I cannot apply that to the damage if we go with your interpretation that the damage is not modified by the shield or other close weapon's abilities.
If the enhancement bonus modifies the damage, then so would the other bonuses to the weapon's damage, such as Impact.
The unarmed damage is used to set the base damage and then it should be modified by whatever enhancements or other bonuses are applied to the weapon.
"When wielding a close weapon, she uses the unarmed strike damage of a brawler 4 levels lower instead of the base damage for that weapon."
At least that is how I interpret it, but thanks for your insight!
Oh I agree that an enhancement bonus of close weapon ought to affect the damage of the close weapon. Enhancement bonuses to unarmed strikes wouldn't affect the damage of close weapons.
I don't think a virtual size change such as impact or actual size change would stack with close weapon mastery or level 12 shield champion's unarmed damage to shields though.
"When wielding a close weapon, she uses the unarmed strike damage of a brawler 4 levels lower instead of the base damage for that weapon (for example, a 5th-level Medium brawler wielding a punching dagger deals 1d6 points of damage instead of the weapon's normal 1d4)."
So enhancement bonuses work fine. But if virtual size increase of a medium heavy shield (1d4) goes to large heavy shield (1d6) and the shield champion already does 1d8, it would be 1d8 + whatever enhancement to the shield.
At level 12, the shield champion would be doing 2d6 with her unarmed and shield. A large or impact heavy shield would still be 1d6 base damage. A large impact shield would only be base damage of 1d8. The unarmed damage is replacing the base damage of 1d6 (or 1d8 for large impact heavy shield) for 2d6 since it's greater. The enhancement bonus to shield for attack/damage would still be applicable.
So yea, I should have said "base damage" in my earlier post.
