So, I cobbled these together a while back, and I rather like them. Their mechanics are rather simple but strike me as fun, playable and at least moderately balanced. The hexenmeister is a witch who eschews traditional spellcasting to focus solely on hexes and curses, while the fire witch is my idea for a blaster witch/warlock archetype. The latter has some built-in fluff related to witch burnings and such, but that can easily be ignored for campaign settings where that sort of stuff isn't appropriate.
Both archetypes can be found here:
This folder I will from here on out start filling up with archetypes for Paizo's classes, so if I ever make more aside from these two, that link is where they'll end up.
Here's also a couple of direct links to the two witch archetypes:
Hope y'all enjoy!
Cheers,
- Gears
An archetype that completely removes 9-level spellcasting and replaces it with a talent pool might as well be an entirely new class. Spellcasting is the primary class feature for a 9-level spellcaster.
I'm not a big fan of the fire witch. Losing a hex to get a good at-will blast attack is a REALLY great deal. Not only that, but it also replaces the witch's familiar, which is supposed to be the witch's achilles heel. So you not only get a good ability at the cost of a hex, but also you lose your class's major weakness.
But why does that matter? If the Hexenmeister has fun abilities and seems playable and balanced, who cares if it's "too big" to be an archetype. That seems like a somewhat pedantic thing to comment on, to be frank. I mean, would it suddenly be awesome if I just called it an "alternate class" and slapped on a class table at the top?
I feel like the fire witch changing to spontaneous casting balances out the blasting power. I mean, unless we're not all agreed that spontaneous casting is just flat-out worse than prepared? Also, there are other archetypes that change out the familiar, like the gravewalker. While it certainly is a potential vulnerability, it's also a very useful class features for the purposes of scouting, et cetera.
Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I would love to get any sort of constructive criticism too!
Cheers,
- Gears
I on the other hand am all in favor of more non-INT-based spellcasters. Frankly I've been of the opinion Witch should have been Wisdom-based from the start anyway for quite some time.
And even then, making the class a spont-caster and shifting focus over to Charisma is pretty commonplace - Wizard vs Sorcerer, Cleric vs Oracle. Using CON for casting, like the Scarred Witchdoctor, is very powerful and I'm less favoring it, but the extremely limited spellcasting ability does help make up for it a little.
A quick read-over, I REALLY like the Fire Witch and will definitely be using it. Yes spont-casting is technically weaker than prepared, just for the lack of the "I can do ANYTHING" factor that helps make Wizard so broken, but I've always preferred it and it's awesome to not only see a Witch option but one that doesn't feel like a half-assed attempt or a knockoff Sorcerer bloodline masquerading as a full class/archetype.
The Hexenmeister is a bit more fiddly and will require actual experimentation to judge its ability, but I can really get behind the concept. It's sort of a halfway attempt between traditional casting and Dreamscarred Psionics - which I also prefer over prepared Vancian casters - while still using the core mechanics of the Witch chassis. Part of me is wondering whether it would have made more sense to do it the other way around, using a Psion or Wilder base then adding Witch abilities, but then you get into the fiddly problem of trying to fit appropriate Powers to replace the Witch's spell list, or trying to assign PP costs to spells.
But why does that matter? If the Hexenmeister has fun abilities and seems playable and balanced, who cares if it's "too big" to be an archetype.
That's the problem. Ideally, when you take away a good ability, you need to replace it with something as interesting, fun, and useful. That's interestingly difficult when you completely remove the primary reason people play a class. Losing almost all spellcasting so I can bad touch people with my hexes and get a few abilities stolen from the antipaladin and cleric doesn't strike me as fun. I feel the archetype would have done better if you balanced the new abilities enough to keep spellcasting.
I feel like the fire witch changing to spontaneous casting balances out the blasting power. I mean, unless we're not all agreed that spontaneous casting is just flat-out worse than prepared?
I agree spontaneous casting isn't as good as prepared casting, but it's not so worse as to allow the class to gain an at-will blast attack that deals as much damage as an alchemist bomb. Especially on a 9-level spellcaster that already has powerful class features. A class that's balanced by having amazing disabling abilities at the cost of inferior blasting options. At the very least, witchfire should have limited uses per day.
I feel like the fire witch changing to spontaneous casting balances out the blasting power. I mean, unless we're not all agreed that spontaneous casting is just flat-out worse than prepared?I agree spontaneous casting isn't as good as prepared casting, but it's not so worse as to allow the class to gain an at-will blast attack that deals as much damage as an alchemist bomb. Especially on a 9-level spellcaster that already has powerful class features. A class that's balanced by having amazing disabling abilities at the cost of inferior blasting options. At the very least, witchfire should have limited uses per day.
This I do agree on. I'd put it on the same use/day as Sorcerer bloodline abilities - 3+CHA mod uses per day. Maybe at mid levels offering an option to burn a spell slot to use it again once you've run out.
Well, I suppose I have a different conception of the power of at-will abilities, then. 1d6 per odd-numbered class level, which doesn't even add an ability score like bombs do, strikes me as a very unproblematic ability. I suppose I simply feel like the fewer skill ranks per level coupled with the worse spellcasting makes up for it. That's not really something that I think can be debated.
In my group's games, losing prepared casting and the skill utility of being Int-based is something almost no one would want to sacrifice in order to gain a sub-par blast, especially when it costs you both your 1st-level hex and your familiar. That being said, if people feel it necessary to limit it to 3 + Cha mod uses, go right ahead. It just strikes me as unnecessary.
As for the hexenmeister, it's intended to fill a very different role from a standard which. Being wholly Con-based, it can stand on the front lines and dole out damage that overcomes all DR and energy resistance at will, applying hexes alongside said damage, and also inflicting cruelties, which are nasty when combined with hexes. I could however imagine creating a few additional hexes to boost its power (Con to AC or DR, stuff like that), and possibly upping the malison pool to Con + level instead of Con + 1/2 level. I think this would be more than enough.
Anyway, thanks for chiming in with your views, guys. I'm taking it all on board. I'll see if I come up with any tweaks or changes.
Cheers,
- Gears
Well, I suppose I have a different conception of the power of at-will abilities, then. 1d6 per odd-numbered class level, which doesn't even add an ability score like bombs do, strikes me as a very unproblematic ability. I suppose I simply feel like the fewer skill ranks per level coupled with the worse spellcasting makes up for it. That's not really something that I think can be debated.
What you are handing out with this is basically a far better version of a Sorcerer level-1 Bloodline ability, such as the Elemental bloodline's ray. The Sorcerer's ray has 30 foot range and only does 1d6 +1 per two levels, compared to Witchflame's 60 foot range and 1d6 +1d6 per two levels, AND can have that damage further enhanced by sacrificing spell slots to add more d6s of damage, which the Sorc can't do. Adding At-Will on top of all that, compared to the Sorc's 3+CHA/day, makes the latter's class ability pretty useless in comparison.
Considering that everything else is very Sorcerer-like - CHA-based spont-casting using a shared spell list (Witch and Wizard respectively), 2 skill points/level, d6 HD - it would be best to keep the two classes on a similar power level.
Unless this is your way of just straight-up saying the Sorcerer abilities are too weak.
Oh, I definitely think the sorcerer's bloodline blasts are pointless tripe. But I want to point out that the witchflame blast is only 1d6 per odd class level, not 1d6 + 1d6 per two class levels. Anyway, if the blast is considered too powerful, I would personally suggest just removing the patron spells or something and keeping it at-will. Just my own personal preference though. A sorcerer still beats this archetype by all metrics anyway, in my book, because wizard spell list.
Cheers
- Gears
So this is a tiny and highly belated update, but after considering some of the comments made regarding the fire witch (to which I feel my replies were needlessly combative and brusque; apologies for that) I've changed my mind about its power level. I think Orthos' analysis was rather on point. The contents of the Google Drive folder linked in the OP have been updated, and the archetype received the following changes:
* The witchflame ability now replaces the 1st-level hex, the witch's familiar and the witch's patron spells. I'm thinking this should seem like more of a fair trade. I also think it makes sense to have it replace your patron spells, since spell slots are what is used to increase the witchflame's damage. I've considered the argument that losing the familiar is more of a blessing than a drawback, but even with the familiar's "living spellbook" status I still think losing it is a break-even. You lose a vulnerability, but you also lose all of then fun utility a familiar brings, so it should balance out.
* The fire witch does not gain 4 + Int skill ranks per level, but retains a witch's standard 2 + Int skill ranks. Basically, much like the pre-errata scarred witch doctor, if a fire witch wants more skills, she'll just have to invest in Int a bit despite it not being useful for her class features. That felt like an unnecessary boon to an already powerful class when I looked it over.
So, those are the changes. Hopefully the archetype seems a bit more balanced now. If it's felt that things still need to be brought down, I've been considering replacing both the 1st- and 2nd-level hex via the witchflame ability, or locking fire witches out of regular major and grand hexes, limiting them to just regular witch hexes and the new hexes detailed in the archetype.
Cheers,
- Gears