srd wrote: Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action
You can choose to fight defensively when attacking. If you do so, you take a –4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 to AC until the start of your next turn.
I don't understand what it means for this to be a standard action.
Example 1: Adam is a 1st level fighter, he moves up to the enemy with his move action and fights defensively as his standard action. He doesn't have any action left to make attacks with, so I'm assuming that fighting defensively doesn't just apply the modifiers, it also allows a single attack.
A) Is that assumption correct?
B) Why does the action say -4 penalty on all attacks if one can only make one with a standard action? Attacks of opportunity that come up before the next round maybe?
Example 2: Bob is a 11th level fighter with three attacks standing right next to the enemy. Is there any way for him to make a full attack with the -4 to hit / +2 to AC? Seems like not. That's fine I suppose, but is it intended? You can full attack with Combat Expertise (which at first glance seems like fighting defensively just with a better tradeoff).
Example 3: Carl is a 15th level Swashbuckler and has just got:
Dizzying Defense wrote: At 15th level, while wielding a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon in one hand, the swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to take the fighting defensively action as a swift action instead of a standard action. When fighting defensively in this manner, the dodge bonus to AC gained from that action increases to +4, and the penalty to attack rolls is reduced to –2. Carl is standing next to his enemy and opens with a swift action to increase his AC, decrease his accuracy, and get a free attack? At this point he can still full attack and deliver his normal 3 attacks.
C) Is that the correct reading?
D) Is that intended?
From my reading (and how I've always run it), fighting defensively is a modification to the 'Attack' action. The 'when attacking' part is in reference to this, as it is listed under the attack action (which is a standard action to perform).
For your example 1, he makes an attack as a standard action, but with modifiers from fighting defensively. It still is the attack action, so he gets his one attack. I feel that calling out fighting defensively as 'the fighting defensively action is problematic, and shouldn't happen. It's not listed as an action on the table, but rather as a modification to the attack action.
You are correct on your guess for point B - the penalty applies to all attacks that round, including attacks of opportunity or mythic abilities that allow attacks as swift actions.
Symmetrically, there is another entry under 'Full Attack' that permits you to do the same, but when full attacking. (Handles your example 2: You can fight defensively and full attack at the same time.)
Now as for the swashbuckler case... the part where they call out the 'fighting defensively action' leaves me somewhat confused. Perhaps the intention is to allow you to activate it after a full attack, double movement, or anything else that takes both your actions. I somehow doubt it's intended to provide an extra attack, since I feel that would be explicitly stated. The 'fighting defensively action' doesn't exist on the table of Actions in Combat, and I'm really not sure what to make of it.
In my games, you wouldn't get the extra attack. I'd let you activate it after your full attack to avoid the penalties during your turn, but it wouldn't give another attack at highest attack bonus.
Hope that helps.
Example 1: yes, you get one attack and the accuracy penalty applies to AoO or other bonus attacks you may make.
Example 2: You missed this passage:
Combat wrote: Fighting Defensively as a Full-Round Action
You can choose to fight defensively when taking a full-attack action. If you do so, you take a –4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC until the start of your next turn.
Example 3: I am not sure if you are intended to get an extra attack from the swift action, but it seems reasonable for a 15th level ability that costs panache.
EDIT: Normally I'd agree with Braingamer, but the wording on the swashbuckler makes me uncertain.
New fun wrinkle, if it doesn't grant an extra attack the penalty will only apply to attacks of opportunity.
Carl resolves his full attack, then swiftly activates his +4 AC, -2 to hit. He gains the advantage of the +4 AC while his enemy's take their turns and the -2 to hit goes away at the start of his next turn. That seems off.
It just means that this particular text applies to the standard action attack but NOT to the full round attack. (though there is other text that has rules for that too)
Quote: Why does the action say -4 penalty on all attacks For example, an attack of opportunity available to you before the next round would also get -4. Or any various feats etc. that may allow two or more attacks in a standard, such as Cleave.
Ring_of_Gyges wrote: New fun wrinkle, if it doesn't grant an extra attack the penalty will only apply to attacks of opportunity.
Carl resolves his full attack, then swiftly activates his +4 AC, -2 to hit. He gains the advantage of the +4 AC while his enemy's take their turns and the -2 to hit goes away at the start of his next turn. That seems off.
The only difference is on one attack: Carl could still full attack first, then gain the +4 AC AND make another attack at -2. Is that more off, or less?
Note that given that he's a swashbuckler, that -2 will also apply to any parry (and riposte) attempts.
I'd rule it more conservatively myself, as a +5 AC with -2 penalties only on attacks of opportunity (and parry and riposte) seems like a decent use of panache. I'm going to assume a swashbuckler has 3 ranks in acrobatics by level 15.
One other thing:
Is there any reason you can't use Combat Expertise and Fighting Defensively at the same time? I half remember some rule against it, but I can't find it.
The reason Fighting Defensively states all attacks is because it is sometimes possible to acquire additional attacks despite taking a standard action to attack. Thus, you are effectively locked into fighting defensively once you start.
The Dizzying Defense Swashbuckler power is poorly worded. However:
Quote: ...spend 1 panache point to take the fighting defensively action as a swift action instead of a standard action. Thus, it's not too hard to figure out it's referring to the Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action option listed in the combat section.
So yes, this means you get to make what would have been a standard action attack as a swift action instead. Furthermore, you can take a standard and move action (or full-attack action) BEFORE this swift action, which would thus prevent the attack penalties from affecting these earlier attacks.
Finally, you can indeed Fight Defensively and use Combat Expertise at the same time. You could even Power Attack too, if you were feeling particularly accurate or gutsy.
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