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So one reason why casters can be problematic is that they are balanced to have a limited supply of high power, while martials generally have an unlimited supply of average power, but when it comes to in game practice, groups will often stop to rest as soon as the caster(s) run(s) out of spells, effectively making that balance point nonfunctional.
So I was thinking perhaps spells per day should be removed. Essentially a spellcaster can cast as often per day as they want, but instead they have to succeed at a check to cast each spell. Replacing the smaller number of higher level spells per day with a higher DC.
I'm thinking a caster level check DC 10 or 15 + double spell level. But how this would incorporate concentration checks and Spell Resistance I'm not entirely sure. Rolling three checks at worst would be a bit unelegant.
Arcane spell failure from armor could instead increase the spellcasting DC by +1 per 5% of spell failure chance. In fact I think it should, it makes success slightly harder than rolling an independent percentile roll for failure chance which I think would be necessary. My reasoning here is that the reason spellcaster players avoid even low arcane spell failure chance like 5 or 10% is that it is a potential waste of their limited resource. If the resource is unlimited, the arcane spell failure chance needs to be a little more severe in order to deter spellcaster from using armor.
Any input on this idea would be appreciated. Why you think it could or might not work. Any ideas for spell resistance and concentration etc.
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I think caster level checks are a good start.
Quick suggestion, probably not fully thought out.
DC = 5 + CL.
Each time you cast a spell of a spell level it increases the DC to cast spells of that level increase by 3. A long rest resets the DCs.
Specialists can cast a spell as a full round action to reduce the DC by 2. Universalists and sorcerers can do the same to reduce any spell by 1,. Other full casters can do something similar....
In 3.5, the truenamer followed a not dissimular premise.
I do not oppose the notion, but it would take balance work. I agree a caster level based DC would likely do better than a spell level based one. Cast your soells weaker than they could be for an easier save, but the inabillity to cast them below their minimum caster level.
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If you want something like this Unchained has a limited magic section where everything is minimum level on the spells, it also has a section in which they can make a check to boost it to normal caster level.
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The true namer was truly broken by being a skill check and either super hard or easy if a specific splat book option was used.
Anyway Eventually the DC will be impossible to pass as a natural 20 doesn't do anything on caster level checks (if wrong we make it so for this), Which happens around the 6 time that spell level is used if cast at max caster level. Which seems fine for wizards as it adds uncertainty to combat for a few more spells. (Wasting your turn sucks).
Increasing the DC on a failure seems cruel, I also don't want to suggest other penalties that would have to be tracked for failure. Maybe the caster takes becomes fatigued on a failure (1min) which can become exhausted (1 hour) and then unconscious (1 day).
Counterspelling could be exempt, not needing a roll. As well as spell trigger and completion options. Cantrips and Spell like abilities could not be effected either.
A first level wizard would have either a 55% or 75% chance of spell failure. Then there would the save DC. This would make spell casters useless. Do not do it.
more of a 40 to 65% failure chance. (lvl 1 spell would be DC 12 or DC 17, a primary caster will unlikely start with less than a +2 mod in their casting ability score, so their CL check would be +3 at least, meaning they would fail on an 8 (40%) or less or respectively a 13 (65%) or less). I have to admit DC base 15 would be too high but 10 doesn't sound too unreasonable.
DC = 5 + CL.
Each time you cast a spell of a spell level it increases the DC to cast spells of that level increase by 3. A long rest resets the DCs.
This would lead right back to the 15 minute adventuring day, reintroducing the need to rest for casters.
DC = X + Spell level (or 2x SL) + Situational mods (insert Concentration checks/ASF/etc here)
Spell resistance numbers might need reworking, but could be used as anti magic "armor", adding to DC, or boosting/allowing a save.
The problem with spell resistance is that it does not normally negate the spell being cast it only protects the creature if it is a target of the spell's effect. For example in the spells AoE or one of the creatures touched or whatever, the spell would still affect everyone else if the SR creature resisted successfully, so it cannot be rolled into the "to cast" check.
Concentration might be possible to weave in there but unfortunately it will not be as easy as "add the usual concentration check's DC-X to the check's DC"
If you want something like this Unchained has a limited magic section where everything is minimum level on the spells, it also has a section in which they can make a check to boost it to normal caster level.
I will have to take a closer look at that; so far I have not spent a lot of time with the new magic systems in PF.
Problem: Outside of combat, what's to stop you from just trying again until you roll a natural 20? The truenamer works by increasing the DC each time you cast, resetting it each day, but then you are largely back in a uses-per-day paradigm, just with a soft cap rather than a hard one.
That's something I haven't considered. I agree that increasing DCs on each casting is just reintroducing the problem we're trying to fix. I cannot come up with anything that is not easily as contrived as vancian casting in general in order to fix this issue, I'll have to mull it over.
It can be done, yet it may create problems.
At low levels, mages have a good chance not to cast any spells for the day if the dice are bad, while high level mages could cast low level spells so often as to become meaningless.
One must also wonder why you would ever play a spontaneous caster? Such a magic system would weaken the strengths of the spontaneous caster, and gives no benefit in return for them.
Many spells rely on a limited day usage scenario, so you can't replace the vancian system with unlimited uses so simply. The least is that all minute/level and hour/level buffs become essentially permanent on the entire party --- the worst is that some spells such as divination (scrying, clairvoyance etc) and especially summoning spells become truly abusive under this scheme.
Something like the recharge magic rule from unearthed arcana would work better, and then going through an limiting the recharge time for the most abusive specimens.
Maybe I was confused. I thought you said caster level checks, not concentration check which would be caster level plus ability modifier. Even if you permit a concentration check a failure chance near fifty percent, coupled with any chance of failure from a save, makes the chance of spell success about a quarter of the time. That would be an unplayable class.
It's my mistake, in writing this i forgot that caster level checks dont include any ability modifiers. I actually meant caster level + casting ability mod. My mistake. On average with a 60% successful casting rate a level 1 caster should end up being able to cast a lot more spells per day. Assuming you have a bout 3 combat encounters each taking 2 rounds you should have 3 or 4 spells cast, while as someone pointed out, without the time constraint of combat you have an infinite amount of retrys on utility spells.
I can understand (and partially agree with) the original intent - that is, allow casting an unlimited number of time per day, but with other limitations for balance purpose.
That said, the proposition has a few issues; the main one could be resumed with : a spellcaster must be at least 4th level to be able to reliably cast Light (and by reliably, I mean 3/4 of the time). At level 1, it may take up to three casts to succesfully do it, unless you allow to take10 this check when out of combat.As you said, with yet another roll, it will become necessary to roll some rolls in one, unless you want up too 6 rolls for spells like Ray of Enfeeblement (New CL check, Concentration Check, Armor Failure Check, Attack Roll, Spell Resistance, Fort Save).
Personnaly, if I were to give a way to allow at will spellcasting (without going the Sphere of Power path), I'd probably use a variant of the Recharge Magic rule written in 3.5's Unearthed Arcana. It allows the caster to still be able to reliably cast spells, while being able to cast only 1-2 spells per encouter at low level, and being limited in how often they can cast theirs best spells at higher level.
Perhaps I should've clarified that cantrips and at will spell/likes still succeed automatically.
It can be done, yet it may create problems.
At low levels, mages have a good chance not to cast any spells for the day if the dice are bad, while high level mages could cast low level spells so often as to become meaningless.
One must also wonder why you would ever play a spontaneous caster? Such a magic system would weaken the strengths of the spontaneous caster, and gives no benefit in return for them
Perhaps an additional bonus to spontaneous casting (including the spontaneous conversion of spells into cure/inflict for clerics and summon natures ally for druids) to incentivize it.
Many spells rely on a limited day usage scenario, so you can't replace the vancian system with unlimited uses so simply. The least is that all minute/level and hour/level buffs become essentially permanent on the entire party --- the worst is that some spells such as divination (scrying, clairvoyance etc) and especially summoning spells become truly abusive under this scheme.
Something like the recharge magic rule from unearthed arcana would work better, and then going through an limiting the recharge time for the most abusive specimens.
the minute or hour/level durations tend to be ignored by the rest-happy behavior that the daily spell slots encourage as well.
The pathfinder system does not work well with this idea, unfortunately. I see where you are coming from, but it's just not going to work. Low level wizards will fail more often than succeed, high level wizards will never fail. Keep trying though. The game does need a change along magic/martial lines.
I've looked at the preview pdf of spheres of power, it seems to completely replace spells as we know them with sphere powers (and personally I absolutely don't like the way their spheres are distributed). Does their system have a version that functions with normal spells as we know them?