Why are spell saves based on spell level?

[Pookiebear]

I'm trying to get back into pathfinder, and the part I love most about the system is its spells. They're deliciously complex and wonderful to work over in my mind.

I always hit a roadblock though when I come across the concept that the DC for spells is related directly to the level of the spell being cast. There seems to be very little good reason for it.

Isn't the wizard already punished enough for needing to cast a level 1 or 2 spell, which is inherently less powerful than a level 8 or 9 spell? (if he has full access)

It seems to me that a spellcaster would have a much greater mastery over lower level spells than higher level spells.

The raw power of the high level spell would (I'd think) be matched by the spellcaster's sometimes years of practice with the lower level spells. It seems to me that these two opposite forces would and could equal out to create an equal spell DC for both.

I see hexes and class features which are spell-like using a DC equal to the spellcasting modifier, 10, and 1/2 the class level.

Is there a good reason why this formula is not used for all spellcasting?

It just seems to me there is not. Please let me know if I am missing anything. :)

THANKS. :P

[Orthos]

You've already touched on the primary reason - higher-level spells are inherently stronger than lower-level ones. Increasing spell DCs through exceptional focus and practice is already handled in-game by feats like Spell Focus (which likewise increase DCs).

The more-meta reason is because the mechanic you suggest using for spells would, barring the earliest levels, massively increase the power of spellcasting classes... which already are the strongest classes in the game, both in power and versatility.

They really, really do not need the power boost.

[Pookiebear]

maybe I can live with it.

It just seems strange and always nags at me that lower level DC based spells become fairly useless.

Just seems counter intuitive and less fun. :P

It would make spellcasting way too powerful in its current state, but It just feels like the right way to handle it in perhaps a future edition or something. :P

[Doomed Hero]

There's always the Heighten Spell metamagic feat.

[Alayern]

Keeping in mind a spellcaster's relevant "casting stat" would increase over time, lower level spell's DCs would increase accordingly.

The mastery of lower level spells is shown separately from DC's.

Spells with a range (besides touch or personal) increase in range.

Some spells increase in damage/healing (Cure/Inflict spells) or effect frequency (magic missile gives +1missile/2levels) based on level scaling.

A few spells increase related to the caster's HD, and how many targets she can affect with a given spell.

[kyrt-ryder]

Low level spells aren't intended to compete with high level spells on any front. If low level spells had scaling DC that matched high level spells, casters would have even more 'go-power' than they do now.

As is basically your top two levels of spells are fairly reliable/worth casting offensively in critical moments. Everything else is support [including a bit of blasting to finish off a nearly downed foe if there's nothing better to do] or cleanup [or no-save control]

[Orthos]

Pookiebear wrote:

maybe I can live with it.

It just seems strange and always nags at me that lower level DC based spells become fairly useless.

Just seems counter intuitive and less fun. :P

It would make spellcasting way too powerful in its current state, but It just feels like the right way to handle it in perhaps a future edition or something. :P

Sounds like you would be happier with a system like Dreamscarred's Psionics, where you can pump more power into lower-level spells to increase their effects and DCs as you level up, keeping some of your basic powers useful even at high levels.

[DigitalMage]

5e uses the same DC for all spells you cast, which scales as you level up (8 + spell casting ability modifier + proficiency bonus). It is a nice mechanic and keeps cantrips relevant.

[Pookiebear]

ya, I've had a lot of experience in 5e, and I just love how the majority of my spells haven't become obsolete. :P

I like pathfinder cause its more crunchy, but I wish there were a method which could even out the spells w/o overpowering spellcasters.

<3.

Thanks for all the ideas and comments. :)