Telekineticist and the adjudication of their telekinetic blast simple blast wild talent

[Ravingdork]

The telekineticist's telekinetic blast simple blast wild talent says the following:

You throw a nearby unattended object at a single foe as a ranged attack. The object must weigh no more than 5 pounds per kineticist level you possess. If the attack hits, the target and the thrown object each take the blast’s damage. Since the object is enfolded in strands of aether, even if you use this power on a magic weapon or other unusual object, the attack doesn’t use any of the magic weapon’s bonuses or effects; it simply deals your blast damage. Alternatively, you can loosen the strands of aether in order to deal damage to both the object and the target as though you had thrown the object yourself (instead of dealing your normal blast damage). You substitute your Constitution modifier for your Strength modifier if throwing the object would have added your Strength modifier on the damage roll, and you don’t take the –4 penalty on the attack roll for throwing an object that wasn’t designed to be thrown. In this case, the object’s special effects apply (including effects from its materials), and if the object is a weapon, you must be proficient with it and able to wield it with one hand; otherwise, the item deals damage as a one-handed improvised weapon for a creature of your size.

During a PFS game tonight, a fellow player operated under the impression that he could telekinetically hurl objects that weren't in his possession, but merely within his attack range. He also possessed the Extended Range form infusion wild talent, so--according to him--he could pick up an object 120 feet away, and attack someone on the far side of himself, 240 feet away from the object's starting point.

He also used this during the game several times to circumvent cover and other obstacles, as the path of the attack would come from the object's original resting location, and not from himself.

Is it really the intent that the telekineticist basically get the Chain form infusion for free, or is the player in question misinterpreting the rules somehow? The above description seems rather vague on the matter.

[My Self]

From what I can see, the blast is vague and it could go in either direction, though I would personally lean in favor of the player. As per RAW, it's completely unspecific, and per RAI, I think it is supposed to behave like other kinetic blasts and start from the character or very close to the player.

I think we should have a developer comment.

[Sphynx]

Our "interpretation" is that "nearby" being synonymous with "close", gives a range of close (30' basically) for how far away an object can be. However, were I to run a game, I'd require it to be something in the same or adjacent square.

[Shiroi]

If he picks up the snaking form infusion he can do this anyways for the most part. Have him use that and I'd stop really caring so much. But yes, since snaking is a thing that's designed to ignore cover, I feel he should have to pay that form tax to do this. Otherwise, attacks originate from his square IMO.

Consider that a Tele blast is the greatest burst of force he can muster at that level. Can you direct as much force sideways (butterfly press style) as you can directly forwards, with a similar degree of accuracy? It's not easy, especially over a distance.

If I really wanted to throw a spear at someone, I'd bring it towards my body, and throw directly. It's the most accurate and forceful motion. Granted telekinetics don't necessarily work the same way, but it's the nearest approximation I can give for how I feel it should operate. Snaking is the more in game balance reason.

[Chris Kenney]

My ruling would basically be that the target has to obey rules for line-of-sight and line-of-effect as if it were going in a straight line from you. Otherwise, as others have said, this lets you bypass a number of infusion costs that are obviously intended.

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Dot

[kase]

Guys i just need a little help..

im trying to figure out what my attack and damage should be..

I get 1d6+1 + Con for my blast damage..

but when i read this it says if my blast is thrown i get (1d6 + 1 + con + con ) .. again?

Any help here would be greatly appreciated or a point to the correct thread that discusses this..

Telekinetic Blast

Element(s) aether; Type simple blast (Sp); Level —; Burn 0
Blast Type: physical; Damage bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing

You throw a nearby unattended object at a single foe as a ranged attack. The object must weigh no more than 5 pounds per kineticist level you possess. If the attack hits, the target and the thrown object each take the blast's damage. Since the object is enfolded in strands of aether, even if you use this power on a magic weapon or other unusual object, the attack doesn't use any of the magic weapon's bonuses or effects; it simply deals your blast damage. Alternatively, you can loosen the strands of aether in order to deal damage to both the object and the target as though you had thrown the object yourself (instead of dealing your normal blast damage).

You substitute your Constitution modifier for your Strength modifier if throwing the object would have added your Strength modifier on the damage roll, and you don't take the –4 penalty on the attack roll for throwing an object that wasn't designed to be thrown. In this case, the object's special effects apply (including effects from its materials), and if the object is a weapon, you must be proficient with it and able to wield it with one hand; otherwise, the item deals damage as a one-handed improvised weapon for a creature of your size.

[Texas Snyper]

So telekinetic blast has two modes. The first mode functions just like all other blasts but needs an object as a vessel for delivering the damage. This one is just the "need an object to throw" requirement but still does blast damage (1d6+1+CON)

The other mode is the "hit them with the object you threw" mode. It functions identically to throwing it but using CON instead of STR as your throw modifier. This lets you get the benefit of material used or special enchantments if its a weapon. For example, if you use your blast to 'throw' an adamantine flaming dagger then instead of doing blast damage you do 'throw' damage, you penetrate DR/adamantine, and you get the flaming enchant damage as well. This mode does not use your blast damage, but you get CON to damage instead of STR like a normal throw.

[Julien Dien]

When asked about the "nearby" in telekinetic blast, Mark Seifter said "square or adjacent squares". However, when sb. said it should be 30ft., Mark replied "30ft. is reasonable."

Here is LINK 1、LINK 2

Actually, He thinks the range doesn't matter too much. To Telekinetic Blast, it doesn't; but to Foe Throw, it really does.

[Diego Rossi]

I think that after 7 years they have resolved their doubts, or even moved to Pathfinder 2.

If you want to resolve the issue for current players, I think that "nearby" means something within arm's length (within your natural reach), essentially something you can potentially touch or, at the most, something that you can potentially touch after taking a 5' step.
There is no need to touch the object, but it needs to be within easy reach.

Bypassing cover without a talent that does that seems to be against RAW. Cover isn't simply "a hard obstacle in your path of attack", it is determined this way:

CRB-Cover wrote:

To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC).

...
Low Obstacles and Cover: A low obstacle (such as a wall no higher than half your height) provides cover, but only to creatures within 30 feet (6 squares) of it. The attacker can ignore the cover if he’s closer to the obstacle than his target.
...
Partial Cover: If a creature has cover, but more than half the creature is visible, its cover bonus is reduced to a +2 to AC and a +1 bonus on Reflex saving throws. This partial cover is subject to the GM’s discretion.

Note how in the last snippet it says "more than half the creature is visible", not "more than half of the creature is protected by a hard obstacle".

In most instances covers work if the obstacle is between you and the target even if you have a way to attack from a different direction. You need an ability or spells that say that it bypass it.