shroudb: Did you mean use Scent for Tracking?
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You could always make survival a headband skill. Or just put ranks in it cause he is getting around 10 skill points a level.
But I laugh at survival cause your acting like it is such a major loss.
It is not.
Also I believe he has like 4-5 others in the group...one I am sure would be nice enough to take survival considering they will be outshine on most other skills they have.
Secondly at some point he can get scent and other things via polymorph extracts.
Lastly if I remember correctly Mummies mask book 1 mostly takes place as a dungeon crawl. By the time they are done with book 1 he will be level 4+ and will be able to afford that headband I talked about if they think it is worth it. Rarely does survival solve much that magic can not.
Swashigator or Inspired Blade Swashbuckler/Vivisectionist Alchemist for Dex focus
Str Focus: Beast-morph Alchemist/Drunken Brute Barbarian (Natural attack maniac)
Vivisectionist Alchemist/Drunken Brute Barbarian 2 (Weapon based Str Monster that tags on Sneak attack damage). Grab a good balance of Extra Rage Powers, Extra Discoveries and potion GluttonOath of Vengence Paladin 2/Bard- Grab a reach weapon and Control the Field while buffing allies and using bard skills out of combat.
You have lots of options....Many of the above can do all 3 roles well.
your feats and class combinations will dictate which Roles you focus more on. It is more in your hands now to decide between the options.
Completely true - I guess the choice is up to me. And I am more and more convinced that the character fluff will have an influence in the final decision ;)
I forget but can Investigators take most alchemist discovery?
cause they have spell knowledge i think its called now?
something along those lines.. but it lets them pick up and acast an actual spell. I think they could snag DDoor that way. though it might come on line too late for you.Amusing sidenote. Syringe or Injection spears can give you "fake" spell striking. Granted it gets costy to use potions so much I guess. Though there are a few infusion (on alchemist list. I haven't looked at investigator) that are useful for it.
but if Investigators can take that discovery I think you could pick up the few specific ones yo uwanted for defense/mobility. THough I don't know how late they would come online.
Unfortunately, Investigators have a limited pool of discoveries they can draw from, and Spell Knowledge is not one of them :(
If it was, I wouldn't even hesitate in going Investigator.
be an elf or half-elf druid and take the bonus natural armor as favorite class bonus. That way you can decently tank, you're a natural scout, and a great caster...
Another option is the bard....take dervish dancer archetype, with a high dex, bonus ca from battle dance, a wand of shield you're almost decent as a tank....but if you REALLY want to tank, sacrifice feats (maybe grab 2 levels in monk) and get the crane style feat chain
As per GM recruitment 'Of core races, only human is allowed', so I would not be allowed to use elf or half-elf races. Though of course other options would be available - however, I am VERY inexperienced with Druids, and would have no idea on how to balance those three roles - any suggestions?
As for the dervish dancer yep, I have played one with great results (or a similar one, since mine was a Dervish of Dawn), but this particular archetype confuses me since the Performances are only for himself, but they don't count double as the Dervish of Dawn.
However, and strangely enough, the fact that they are not restricted to the Scimitar as their weapon of choice (am I looking at it right?), may actually mean they are a good option for what I am ooking for (if I assume that my Performances are as egoist as any other self buffs...) - however, losing Bardic Knowledge and Versatile Performance really sucks in my book. Even then, taking a second look at the archetype, it may be worth a shot, though he will never be the skills guy ;)
And yeah, my Dervish of Dawn had 2 levels of Monk of Many Styles for the Crane chain, back in the day :D
Just doing some brainstorming,
1Fighter1: Power Attack, Cleave, Combat Expertise
2F2: Improved Dirty Trick
3F2Arcanist1: Dimensional Slide, Improved Initiative
4F2A1Rogue1: Sneak Attack +1d6
5F2A1R1Slayer1: Bounty Hunter, Quick Draw
6F2A1R1S2: Dirty Trick Class Ability
7F2A1R1S3: Sneak Attack +1d6, Great CleaveThe OP mentioned liking the idea of being able to tactically DimDor around the Battlefield. Well, that's what the Arcanist ability Dimensional Slide does, only without the disorientation: it happens as part of the regular move. A level 1 Arcanist can only go 10' with this: it's 10'/level, but dip a little more, dip a little more...
With Dirty Tricks, you can make your opponents Blind (for starters), and lock in your Sneak Attack Damage. With Bounty Hunter Dirty Trick, you can play your Dirty Trick as part of your Sneak Attack Damage. You can't bootstrap it, of course, so you'll have to do it on the first round with a thrown weapon or bowshot you'll get off fast with Improved Initiative. Or by deftly Flanking your opponent(s) with Dimensional Slide
So, you have some skill points and Sneak Attack Damage, some good ways to promise you'll get to do your SA Damage, the ability to augment some of your scouting with divination spells, perhaps a Wand of Commune with Birds, and you can use Dimensional Slide to place yourself in just the right spot to use Great Cleave or Sneak Attack somebody.
Thoughts?
Wow Scott, I really think only you can multiclass as much, and still come up with a strong character :D
I can't say I have deciphered everything in your build - I'd have to build it, I'll to take a second, third, and maybe fourth look at it, then build it. But thanks for calling my attention to the Arcanist - they DO have an expanded spell list, and quite a lot of stuff to play around with. However, I am assuming the progression in your build would be mainly Slayer? So, no more spell progression?
Also, where are the divination spells coming from? :D
Psychic Detective investigator's spell list might fit you better than the standard extracts.
Starting with barbarian 1 makes up for the missing mutagen a bit, and gives a few rounds of non-precision damage boost, could be worth being behind 1 on spells and studied combat. A 2nd level would be tougher to justify..
I do not own Occult Adventures, nor have I ever even looked into the Psychic - can you give me a more detailed on what kind of spells I would have access to, and how to build the character?
The Psychic has access to these spells, and the Psychic Detective adds a few more spells to the list.
The archetype does make long-arm much more valuable as casting defensively requires a move action before or a plus ten to the concentration check, however armor is not an issue.
Second beware intimidate and fear effects as they hurt your casting considerably, any spell with a somatic component requires an emotion component instead, which can be blocked by fear effects including intimidate.
However, the archetype does give you access to all of the front line buffs you wanted as well as the ability to affect multiple people (and 0-level spells.)
Ok. Just out of left field, fighter lore warden and Eldritch guardian archetypes. Full bab, get dirty trick, reach trip/ disarm weapon. Blind the enemy/trip/disarm them, effectively increases your tankiness. Familiar can give you scouting. UMD becomes a class skill. Extra skill points to make intelligence skills. Trait to make UMD an int based skill. Familiar, if chosen correctly can cast some spells on you with wands. Only thing missing is trap finding and that can be gotten with a trait.
powell01, I like it - I have built pure martial classes based off UMD for their 'arcane fix', but they were much more straightforward than your sample idea - I would say yours would work much better than the one I devised, and definitely worth a try. However, there are two things I am looking for that he does not fill out completely - spellcasting action economy, and several arcane spells at his behest - relying on wands wuld not seem the best option for this.
your idea for investigator/magus seems really hard to pull off.
both those classes rely on lvls:
magus needs them for the spells
investigator needs the for the study combat and for the discoveries (since there are a LOT of awesome ones)you already have an inquisitor thought, so that takes some strain off your back to grab every single skill discovery since between the two of you, you should be able to have the whole skill list covered.
Inspired blade1/Empyrisist X is one of the most SAD classes and will have stellar AC and defensive capabilities (with high AC, riposte, extracts, etc) but your alpha strike potential will be nowhere near what a magus can pull with spellstriking. Your combat mobility and action economy is also not as good as a magus with spellcombat.
You do have studied strike giving you a little bit of burst, or studied strike+inspired weapon at lvl 10 enhancing that (with a starting dex of 16 you are looking at a lvl10 alpha strike of ~4d6+2d8+11)
But since you have the full gallery of spellcasters behind you, my own recomedation would be to pick up a spellstoring weapon and have them filling it up as appropriate.
Still, you wont reach the damage of a magus doing it basically each turn, but for surgical strikes it should be good enough.
The pros though are the skills:
Insane perception, good stealth, godly knowledges, trapfinding, disable device, tracking throught perception, extracts to enhance all the above, and etc, should make you leaps and bounds better scout compared to a magus
The Inspired Blade/Empiricist build is an amazing one - I have looked at it time and again, and I stick to my opinion, thus agreeing with you. However, here's the thing - for PFS I would not hesitate in building such a character, since we can effectively tailor our characters pretty much in whatever way we like - we decide what weapons, armor, gear, magic items we want, etc. This allows us to focus on rapier for example, adding whichever properties we need to make it a truly effective weapon in all situations.
I feel in an AP things aren't quite like that, and one needs to adapt to whatever comes our way - completely focusing my melee ability on rapier, and since I can't really find a way to fit in Weapon Versatility, seems like it may hurt me more than do good. I gotta admit I do love derring-do, and the Int based Panache...
IMO: Inspired Blade 1 / Impiricist X is going to get you what you want. Put your 18s in Int and Dex. Pick up Fencing Grace at first level. For that matter pick up Fast Learner at first level as well.
That will give you a standing AC of 19 at first level and easily over 25 by 3rd (that can be boosted with Penache), as many skill points as a Rogue with higher results, all skills as class skills (with a couple talents... why don't Investigators get Survival?), a ton of tricks up your sleeve and most of the "spells" you want.
FYI - I am playing that build right now, in fact. It is very versatile and fills the niches you want better than anything I can imagine. In fact, I'm so confident that it ends up being better at all those roles simultaneously post 2nd level that I would challenge anyone to do it better. And it does it with so much style and, dare I say... penache. ;)
Lune, as I posted above to shroudb - I think being completely dependable on rapier during an AP may be hurtful. I may be looking wrong at it, but so far I have been playing at least three different APs up to level 8, and really it hasn't been easy to 'upgrade my weapon' (two bow focused characters). The one that is actually doing better equipment wise is a melee Paladin that simply grabs whichever best 2-hander comes up in the AP. I think this makes a difference versatility wise - wouldn't you agree?
Also, the reason I wanted to add Magus is because it definitely has a sweet spell list (Investigator's is not as good I believe).
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Lune, as I posted above to shroudb - I think being completely dependable on rapier during an AP may be hurtful. I may be looking wrong at it, but so far I have been playing at least three different APs up to level 8, and really it hasn't been easy to 'upgrade my weapon' (two bow focused characters). The one that is actually doing better equipment wise is a melee Paladin that simply grabs whichever best 2-hander comes up in the AP. I think this makes a difference versatility wise - wouldn't you agree?
This is a DM problem. There is a lot of DMs who are under the impression anything beyond a +1 item is uber super rare. They believe Golarian is alow magic world where its hard to find anyone over level 7. I have had quiet a few DMs like that myself.
But in reality when it comes to big cities like magnimar, ketahpesh, ext ext they do have a wide variety of magical items. Easy enough to get a +3 item/weapon with the right amount of gold.
This is a reason I like Automatic Bonus Progression rules. Takes a new DMs unenlightenment out of it.
The truth is that PFS is a good judge on how a magic market is in Golarion works. You should be able to buy a weapon that symbolic to your character and not be neutered.
Before automatic progression I use to change drops. If an enemy had a +2 adamantine longsword and no one in the party used a longsword then I made it into what someone used. Like in your case it would be a rapier.
So a lot has to do with your DM and a small lack of understanding.
First of all I just wanted to let everyone know the feedback has been amazing - I keep learning a lot from almost every single post I read, and since I have always wanted to build what I consider a 'good gish', this goes a VERY long way towards it. For that reason, thank you everyone.
That being said:
The Psychic has access to these spells, and the Psychic Detective adds a few more spells to the list.
The archetype does make long-arm much more valuable as casting defensively requires a move action before or a plus ten to the concentration check, however armor is not an issue.
Second beware intimidate and fear effects as they hurt your casting considerably, any spell with a somatic component requires an emotion component instead, which can be blocked by fear effects including intimidate.
However, the archetype does give you access to all of the front line buffs you wanted as well as the ability to affect multiple people (and 0-level spells.)
Thanks for the explanation Sedoriku - I gotta admit I do like the spell list - it seems to cover (almost) all the bases I am looking for. I'll admit I wouldn't want to go into Psychic terrain because this game started off with Occult Adventures banned, as the GM was not familiar with it at the time. Things may change, but the terrain may be somewhat muddy yet - I would love to see a build though (say... level 6?), if you ever have a chance, so I can get an idea of what we are talking about.
Someone mentioned it earlier as a bit of a throw away, but have you considered summoner? A lot of the build ideas here don't come online until much later, but with a summoner you can actually play the character you want from the beginning. You can easily make a tank eidolon from level 1 (who can tank much more effectively than the bloodrager due to higher functional hp) and a skilled caster with the summoner.
You have the necessary stat array to allow for excessive skill points per level, even with only a 2+int base (16 intelligence after racials) Choose tiefling (grim spawn) to get some +2's to your roguish skills and traits for disable device and stealth. You don't need the HP so you can convert your favour class bonus into a skill point if you feel you need it. You also have the option of using summon monster 7 times per day at level 1 for additional scouts or tanks if your eidolon should fall.
Most of the spells you want are on the summoner spell list and some even come online earlier than sorcerers have access to them. With your high charisma and class you should be able to UMD wands of the rest at about the time you'd be expected to provide them.
You also get your desired action economy and then some. Additionally the summoner requires no feats to operate functionally so can be customized as you see fit: if you want more mundane firepower it can be a tertiary ranged fighter at early levels or use a reach build to support the monk and eidolon.
A few things jesuscraig:
- How do I get the action economy?
- Wouldn't you say that even an Investigator (Empiricist) dip, with all the boosts to skills by making based off Intelligence, has much better synergy? Adding to this the fact that Charisma needs to be a focus of the Summoner (even if not focusing on offensive DCs)?
- One question about your idea - do you mean my eidolon would be able to carry out the roles I am looking for, or the actual summoner? Because they have actually nothing geared towards scouting and information gathering, right (their skill list makes me cry)?
Though Summoner has not been banned in this game, so I may give it a whirl and try to build it, see how it comes out in the end :D
Lune, as I posted above to shroudb - I think being completely dependable on rapier during an AP may be hurtful. I may be looking wrong at it, but so far I have been playing at least three different APs up to level 8, and really it hasn't been easy to 'upgrade my weapon' (two bow focused characters). The one that is actually doing better equipment wise is a melee Paladin that simply grabs whichever best 2-hander comes up in the AP. I think this makes a difference versatility wise - wouldn't you agree?This is a DM problem. There is a lot of DMs who are under the impression anything beyond a +1 item is uber super rare. They believe Golarian is alow magic world where its hard to find anyone over level 7. I have had quiet a few DMs like that myself.
But in reality when it comes to big cities like magnimar, ketahpesh, ext ext they do have a wide variety of magical items. Easy enough to get a +3 item/weapon with the right amount of gold.
This is a reason I like Automatic Bonus Progression rules. Takes a new DMs unenlightenment out of it.
The truth is that PFS is a good judge on how a magic market is in Golarion works. You should be able to buy a weapon that symbolic to your character and not be neutered.
Before automatic progression I use to change drops. If an enemy had a +2 adamantine longsword and no one in the party used a longsword then I made it into what someone used. Like in your case it would be a rapier.
So a lot has to do with your DM and a small lack of understanding.
Fruian, I do understand your perspective. But still I'm just talking about how things have usually gone in my games. Wouldn't you agree it goes like this in the vast majority of times? It is quite possible that the AP goes all the way without a rapier (they are not usually the most common of weapons), and I will be reliant on getting back to a large metropolis to continue upgrading my very-much-so-main weapon :P
it also depends on if your homegroup allows crafting feats or not.
if it allows, you can always bug someone to pick up craft arms+armor to keep up your items.
but yeah, you don't even need that much of a magic weapon:
+1 rapier should be easy to find even in smaller settlements, and from then on, when your wizard gets to lvl9 make him fabricate an adamantine rapier for you, and get it enchanted into a major city and asking an npc to add inspiring and/or keen on it, should keep you covered for a long time.focus on oils of bless weapons to bypass dr/good if you need to, and keep a spare silver/cold iron rapier for when you also need to.
the dream, depending on maximum lvl the ap will reach, will be a "+3 adamantine inspiring holy keen rapier", which, due to it being kinda specialized, would either need a dedicated crafter to make or a crafter npc in a capital city, but a +7 weapon either way is for super late game.
Well... We don't have a Wizard :P
Believe me I am well aware of the usefulness for oils and weapon blanch, but what about DRs which are bypassed by slashing or bludgeoning weapons?
And again, I'm not sure how much of the AP happens in a 'major' city - from those that I have played thus far, I insist it has not been that easy to return to one whenever you need (the plot urgency usually takes precedence - even if you can teleport, you need time to craft/enchant/etc.). Have I just been unlucky?
Also, where are the divination spells coming from? :DI was thinking of the level 2 Wizard Spell, Commune with Birds. The idea is for a scouting character. Commune with Birds lets you ask all the birds within a mile about everything they can see. It has the limitation of not just having a bird-eye view, but a bird-brained view, so the information will be limited to lay-of-the land stuff: where is the water, where are fields, cliffs, forests, meadows, seeds, worms, and large predators. But still, very useful for Scouting.
You need 4 levels in Arcanist before you can cast level 2 spells, but even a level 1 Arcanist can use a Wand of Commune with Birds.
I like that little neat trick - not that useful underground I assume, but still...
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Ok, and just because I feel this has to be moving somewhere, I'll throw at least one build here tomorrow - fact is, I actually intend to play this character, so this is not only a theoretical exercise ;)
You could always make survival a headband skill. Or just put ranks in it cause he is getting around 10 skill points a level.
But I laugh at survival cause your acting like it is such a major loss.
It is not.
Am I acting like it is a major loss? I only recall mentioning it once in a question. Even then it was in the context of wondering why a skill like that which is tied to tracking isn't part of an Investigator's kit. It really seems like that is part of investigation.
Regarding the bit about the rapier: It is one of the most common weapons. So, no, I do not think it is an issue in the least to depend on it.
It may differ by GM, if anyone in the party is able to craft, availability of ye olde magic shops, etc. Surely your GM isn't going to purposefully punish you for picking a single common weapon to use. Most APs even mention customizing treasure to your party.
Honestly I feel like disregarding a build concept that fits all of your bullet points so well simply due to lack of weapon versatility is both a bit petty and moving the goal posts. You didn't list weapon versatility as part of the requirements you wanted to meet with your build.
FYI there is going to be no perfect solution here. Picking the closest fit is going to be your best option. With what you have laid out as your requirements, I stand by my original suggestion.
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Am I acting like it is a major loss? I only recall mentioning it once in a question. Even then it was in the context of wondering why a skill like that which is tied to tracking isn't part of an Investigator's kit. It really seems like that is part of investigation.
No Lune I was talking about and to Shroudb about it not you.
Regarding the bit about the rapier: It is one of the most common weapons. So, no, I do not think it is an issue in the least to depend on it.
It may differ by GM, if anyone in the party is able to craft, availability of ye olde magic shops, etc. Surely your GM isn't going to purposefully punish you for picking a single common weapon to use. Most APs even mention customizing treasure to your party.
Honestly I feel like disregarding a build concept that fits all of your bullet points so well simply due to lack of weapon versatility is both a bit petty and moving the goal posts. You didn't list weapon versatility as part of the requirements you wanted to meet with your build.
I have to Agree with you here.
For what it's worth, I'd probably suggest a Master Summoner. Even at half-progression, a skill-focused Eidolon can be an excellent scout. Your summoned monsters can be disposable meat-shields, and you do have a number of spells at your disposal.
You could always make survival a headband skill. Or just put ranks in it cause he is getting around 10 skill points a level.
But I laugh at survival cause your acting like it is such a major loss.
It is not.
Am I acting like it is a major loss? I only recall mentioning it once in a question. Even then it was in the context of wondering why a skill like that which is tied to tracking isn't part of an Investigator's kit. It really seems like that is part of investigation.
Regarding the bit about the rapier: It is one of the most common weapons. So, no, I do not think it is an issue in the least to depend on it.
It may differ by GM, if anyone in the party is able to craft, availability of ye olde magic shops, etc. Surely your GM isn't going to purposefully punish you for picking a single common weapon to use. Most APs even mention customizing treasure to your party.
Honestly I feel like disregarding a build concept that fits all of your bullet points so well simply due to lack of weapon versatility is both a bit petty and moving the goal posts. You didn't list weapon versatility as part of the requirements you wanted to meet with your build.
FYI there is going to be no perfect solution here. Picking the closest fit is going to be your best option. With what you have laid out as your requirements, I stand by my original suggestion.
That's cool Lune - this is all about different perspectives, play styles and personal preference. I did point out here one of the main reasons I was leaning towards STR based was indeed not being tied to weapon A or B, but it does not even matter.
One other thing that I have said before, but perhaps was not clear enough - I really like the Swashigator build (kudos to Fruian since it was the first time I was introduced to it), and I am not disregarding it at all. I am instead trying to pick up on what I have learned from it, and edging towards some things that are my personal preference. While doing that I ask for people's opinions, hoping to gather valuable feedback.
And yes, I admit it, I very much enjoy discussing gish like characters and the multiple ways to build them ;)
*peeks in*
"Um...I think at this point, the rest of us would be happy with anyone that wants to join our group. We've got a lot of spellpower on our side so surely we can help anyone reach their full potential in one way or another!"
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Albion, play what you want to play okay? These nice people have given you some great builds so pick the one you like best and run with it. As Hmm said, you've got the spellcaster army at your back so we'll be able to buff you six ways to Sunday no matter what you decide to go with! :)
Hmm already laid out mostly what the group will consist of, but here's a more specific lineup for anyone that's curious:
Ifrit Oracle (Flame)
Aasimar Oracle (Ancestor; Seer archetype)
Oread Fighter (Unbreakable)
Human Sorcerer (Undead; Tattooed)
Human Witch (Trickery; Hedge Witch)
Sylph Inquisitor (Shelyn)
Human Monk (Terra Cotta)Our GM had some unique build rules starting out, especially in the race department, but Hmm covered those back on the first page I believe.
Oh hi there Aleris :D
Guys, it is ok, really - I am not feeling cornered into playing something I do not want to play. I am just looking at options as to how to play what I want my character to be. No need to worry about that - I don't really play games in which I do not have fun. And this process for me is a big part of the fun.
I like building characters, and I am not looking for niches to explore, just ways to make my character more enjoyable to me (egoistical maybe, but then again if I am not having fun... I'm out), and better at what he does. I'm not even going much towards the optimization way (somewhat of course) - vide STR based Magus :D
That being said, my actual crunch for the game is done (just haven't posted it here), and mechanically I am about ready to go (on the way to work I was writing down some lines regarding fluff so even that is about ready to go also) since I don't want to stall the others, but I do enjoy the exchange and the learning process, so why not? ;)
Bottom line, rest assured - I would never play a character I do not want to play (who plays a game like that?). I am only seeping in advice from others, and hoping to put it to good use.
I understand the 'rapier thing' does not make sense to many, but I have experienced it first hand (with other weapons - bows of all things should be common as hell no?), and even though I am not complaining about it, I still think it is a reality. In fact, I think I kinda like the variety of weapons that groups come across in APs, and would not want to be locked down to a choice from day one, and forever. May not be the best mechanical option, but it feels uncool to come across a cool weapon and simply not being able to use it - kinda of a funky explanation, but its the best I got :D
I've thanked people enough for their feedback, so I will not do it again.
Let me objective about something then: I would like to have options to quickly move across the battlefield (say... dimension Door), and I do think Mirror Image is one of the most valuable second level defensive spells - Investigators have neither. Any way you know of that I could get my hands on those? Or alternatively, are there other extracts that can afford me the same, or similar effects, movement and defensive wise? (Blur is good, but not as good as Mirror Image, is it?)
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(Blur is good, but not as good as Mirror Image, is it?)
Odds are not as high as Mirror Image Odds to miss. BUT what it does provide is Concealment. Which shuts off Sneak attack damage completely.
The second thing that Blur does that Mirror image does not, is last the entire Length of the spell. They last the same but with each attack mirror image is reduced till it wears off. Blur Keeps going till the end of the time length.
I personally prefer mirror image on my casters but when it is not an option Blur is a strong 2nd option that has its place.
Thanks for the feedback Fruian, as always - I particularly liked the part about the fact that Blur does not decay over time - nice tip ;)
Ok, so I know most of you would NOT do it, but let us assume I am obsessed with being a Magus, because of the bonus feats, the arcanas (flamboyant comes to mind), the spell strike and the spell combat, ok?
If I would start off as Investigator, how would you progress such multiclass character? Inv - Inv - Inv - Magus for the rest?
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A few things:
You wont get mirror Image until Level 7. So until Level 7 you will be relying on Level 1 buffs from yourself. You team will be able to buff you for sure but your self buffs like Mirror Image will not be around till then. You could spend 150gp for scrolls of Mirror Image or Buy a wand for 4500gp which is 90gp a charge.
Your offensive spells like Shocking grasp will be behind just as much. Being behind 3 caster levels hurts durations of the buffs as well as your Arcane Pool for enhancing your weapon.
What are you gaining from 3 levels of Investigator? Skills? That is the main thing I can see.
What interests you in the Flamboyant Arcanas? Remember most those Got Nerfed as of recently. So they are not as good as they use to be.
If you are obsessed with Magus then just play the Magus and pick up what ever skills you can. The Inquistor, Witch, and monk will have a lot of skills among themselves.
I understand the 'rapier thing' does not make sense to many, but I have experienced it first hand (with other weapons - bows of all things should be common as hell no?), and even though I am not complaining about it, I still think it is a reality.
I agree with you, it can be a significant problem. My first reaction on reading the Swashbuckler was concern about being too focused on a single weapon.
Let me objective about something then: I would like to have options to quickly move across the battlefield (say... dimension Door), and I do think Mirror Image is one of the most valuable second level defensive spells - Investigators have neither. Any way you know of that I could get my hands on those? Or alternatively, are there other extracts that can afford me the same, or similar effects, movement and defensive wise? (Blur is good, but not as good as Mirror Image, is it?)
For movement around the battlefield you have:
1st level: Expeditious Retreat combined with Acrobatics skill, Blurred Movement7th level (3rd level elixirs): Gaseous Form or Fly
9th level: WBL would allow you to pick up Cape of Mountebank (10.8K)
12th level: WBL would allow you to pick up Ring of Spell Storing (50K) or Charlatan's Cape (45K)
Alternatively, go Shadow Dancer for 4 levels and you have a 40' D-Door with restrictions.
For comparison, Magus get Dimension Door at 10th level.
As for Blur vs. Mirror Image, I generally prefer Blur because the defense is consistent and more effective against creatures with a large number of attacks. Mirror Image against any monster with three or more attacks per round goes down quickly.
Since Investigator's get UMD as a class skill, you could use a wand to get your Mirror Image. If you are willing to go with wands, a single level of Bloodrager would put it on your spell list (so you could automatically activate a wand) without hurting your BAB and no UMD required.
A few things:
You wont get mirror Image until Level 7. So until Level 7 you will be relying on Level 1 buffs from yourself. You team will be able to buff you for sure but your self buffs like Mirror Image will not be around till then. You could spend 150gp for scrolls of Mirror Image or Buy a wand for 4500gp which is 90gp a charge.
Your offensive spells like Shocking grasp will be behind just as much. Being behind 3 caster levels hurts durations of the buffs as well as your Arcane Pool for enhancing your weapon.
What are you gaining from 3 levels of Investigator? Skills? That is the main thing I can see.
What interests you in the Flamboyant Arcanas? Remember most those Got Nerfed as of recently. So they are not as good as they use to be.
If you are obsessed with Magus then just play the Magus and pick up what ever skills you can. The Inquistor, Witch, and monk will have a lot of skills among themselves.
From Investigator I am hoping to gain:
- The skill spread for the character, offering a nice balance between utility/scouting;
- Inspiration;
- Trapfinding;
- Intelligence to Disable Device (not that important because Dex would make it good anyway), Perception, Sense Motive, Use Magic Device, and on any Diplomacy checks made to gather information;
- Eventually Keen recollection (not a brutal advantage) + Mutagen? (if I go 3 levels in)
From Flamboyant Arcana I was looking to get the Oportune Parry and Riposte - are there much better choices? (As I said, I have never played a Magus :P)
@BretI: Thanks for the input, and the view on Blur - I do think I will invest in UMD ;)
If you want a better UMD skill, you could always use Pragmatic Activator or Clever Wordplay to make it Int based.
I have come to the inescapable conclusion, Albion, that you cannot create a character without multiclassing.
Whatever you build, we'll have fun. This is PbP, so the likelihood of going to a high enough level where multiclassing might hurt is low anyways.
Looking forward to conducting your job interview in game. Muahahahaha! The power! All mine! All mine!
Well, we don't have a Wizard. :)
What would you want one of those for when you have me? I'm much cuter.
Sirdar Harmose al-Nefer
Self Proclaimed General of the Albion Buffing Army
Why Harmose, thank you ever so much - in that case you will be the General in the Albion Buffing Army :D
@jesuscraig: You know what? I am going to try and build that - will aim for a melee Summoner + Skilled Eidolon. Any suggestions on archetypes or...?
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In the mean time, I put together the first draft for the character we've been talking about, at level 1.
Polux
Garuda-blooded aasimar (plumekith) investigator (empiricist) 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 30, 100, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 7)
CG Medium outsider (native)
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +5
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Defense
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AC 16, touch 13, flat-footed 13 (+3 armor, +3 Dex)
hp 9 (1d8+1)
Fort +1, Ref +5, Will +4
Resist acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee gladius +4 (1d6+4/19-20) or
. . longspear +4 (1d8+6/×3) or
. . morningstar +4 (1d8+4)
Ranged sling +3 (1d4+4)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 1st; concentration +0)
. . 1/day—see invisibility
Investigator (Empiricist) Extracts Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +5)
. . 1st—cure light wounds, shield
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Statistics
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Str 18, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 13, Cha 9
Base Atk +0; CMB +4; CMD 17
Feats Combat Reflexes
Traits blood of pharaohs, magical knack, Student of Philosophy, wayang spell hunter
Skills Acrobatics +8, Craft (alchemy) +8 (+9 to create alchemical items), Disable Device +7, Fly +4, Intimidate +3, Knowledge (local) +8, Perception +5, Sense Motive +5, Stealth +6, Survival +2, Use Magic Device +3; Racial Modifiers +2 Acrobatics, +2 Fly
Languages Celestial, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Osiriani, Ancient, Sylvan
SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +1), inspiration (4/day), trapfinding +1
Combat Gear alchemist's fire; Other Gear studded leather, gladius[UC], longspear, morningstar, sling, sling bullets (20), backpack, hemp rope (50 ft.), thieves' tools, trail rations (5), 41 gp, 3 sp
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Special Abilities
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Alchemy +1 (Su) +1 to Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items, can Id potions by touch.
Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Energy Resistance, Acid (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Acid attacks.
Energy Resistance, Cold (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Inspiration (+1d6, 4/day) (Ex) Use 1 point, +1d6 to trained skill or ability check. Use 2 points, to add to attack or save.
Magical Knack (-Magus-) +2 CL for a specific class, to a max of your HD.
Student of Philosophy You were trained in a now-defunct philosophical tradition—such as that of the now-destroyed magic universities or astrologers—and learned to use logic and reason to persuade others. You can use your Intelligence modifier in place of your Charisma modifier on Diplomacy checks to persuade others and on Bluff checks to convince others that a lie is true. (This trait does not affect Diplomacy checks to gather information or Bluff checks to feint in combat).
Trapfinding +1 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.
Wayang Spell Hunter (Frostbite) Reduce spell level increase from metamagic for chosen spell by 1.
Any thoughts?
I am considering swapping Dex and Str, and start with Str at 16 (upping it to 18 at level 2).
Also, on the possible future Magus part, I'm in doubt between Frostbite and Chill Touch focusing (I am assuming I will be able to squeeze in Rime Spell in there somewhere...).
I must admit the Summoner + Scout/skills Eidolon once built, do turn out pretty impressive :D
I must admit the Summoner + Scout/skills Eidolon once built, do turn out pretty impressive :D
I'll repeat again in case it was missed. Master Summoner can do all three things at once. You can use your Summon Monster SLA to create "tanks", your skill eidolon can scout while they are tanking, and the Summoner can cast spells. All in one round.
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I'll tell ya Master Summoner is broken.
In my games a player has to use UnSummoner and Master summoner archetype is banned. Mostly because they are a 1 man party in themselves.
Your already running such a large party. I would be careful not to Outshine everyone else with that build. Other Party Members might grow bored with your long turns. (Summoners, Summoned Creature, and Pet.) That is basically 3 turns in 1.
Yeah... I have played a Master Summoner before, and even at low levels... Wow...
In any case I think I would prefer straight Summoner (so that the progression on the Eidolon is not harmed) - would go melee (or maybe archery) role, and the Eidolon would be the scout - he can get pretty ludicrous ;)
But that's probably for another game.
Any comments on my build above?
Ok then, without wanting to resurrect a dying thread, I just wanted to say in the end I have decided not to multiclass Magus with Investigator - the project is not abandoned, but I don't think it will fit this game ;)
That being said, I am going with a STR based Investigator reach build (still stats are 18, 16, 12, 18, 13, 9, so not shabby at all on Dex), and now would ask for opinions on two very specific things:
- Traits: Being that this is Mummy's Mask, I am taking Blood of Pharaohs and Student of Philosophy, but I still have two more traits to chose. I have thought about Inspired (which would make me particularly good at skills, even though just ONE time a day seems short), Armor Expert to eventually allow me to use a Mithral Breastplate, Resilient seems like a good thing (but read below) though only +1 to Fort seems scarce, I have heard good things about Fate's Favored if coupled with Alchemical Allocation and a high level Divine Favor pot, Reactionary is always good, and others that tack Intelligence as modifier on skills like Intimidate or Heal. What do you people think would be my best options here?
- Multiclassing: I know, it is a bad option most of the times, but still... What I am looking for is more weapon options, class powers which may be worthwhile with a one (maximum two) level dip, and a boost to my Fortitude Saves. I have thought only about full BAB classes like Slayer, Barbarian, Ranger or Fighter, but wanted to hear your opinion, based on what I am looking for.
Thank you in advance.
Excellent choice on class and build. Traits- reactionary is always good, or any save trait. They are always on so easy to keep track of, and your skills are already great so you don't need any help there.
Multiclassing if you must these are good bets lore warden fighter, or slayer. Unfortunately neither one give medium armor proficiency which would be helpfu and not burn a feat. If you want medium armor proficiency then go ranger or fighter.
Multiclassing don't (my opinion) I think people have given good reasons not to multi class so I won't rehash the debate. But I will give you a single class build idea for a strength based investigator. I would use the staff as my main weapon and take the two weapon fighting feat at first level. You can use it with 2hands for 1.5 damage bonus or as a two weapon fighting style. With Inspiration, studied combat and studied strike you can over come the -2 to bab and have some nice riders to damage. Plus you can only get the inspired enhancement on weapons that investigators are proficient with. If you do find a weapon you aren't proficient with burn a feat because in general your class features are mor valuable then feats. Any way that's my 2 coppers and I didn't have to break the NSA to come up with it.
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Do you want to be a half orc? Fates favored + sacred tattoo = +2 to all saves.
Divine favor cannot be made into a potion, its self only. If you go aasimar, enlarge person won't work on you (unless you take scion of humanity alternate racial trait - ask your GM if quarters are confined - enlarge person is very helpful to reach builds). But sprouting angelic wings at level 9 that are non dispellable is cool too.
If you're going aasimar, dump fates favored, unless you wish to worship cayden and pick this up. Then its a +2 to all saves as long as you have this up. Id recommend armor expert in that case.
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Sounds like a Vivisectionist to me. Self buff extracts, check. High skills per level, check. Ability to rack up large hit point total, check.
I agree if it is a legal option vivisectionist is the perfect solution.
Also take to campaign trait to give you trap finding.
If you want to tank scout and have spells nothing else matches an alchemist
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I recommend being Half orc for the Sacred Tattoo+Fate's Favored
That +2 to all 3 saves is worth a LOT. Dark vision is also a plus when your going to be diving into dark crypts to investigate.
Sure that 1 feat from human is nice...but +2 to all saves is better than taking these 3 feats Iron will, Great fortitude, and Lightning reflexes. All at the cost of a Trait.
Wait a second... I thought we already voted on this and decided you were playing a swashigator. You are aware that this is a democracy, correct?
Ok, first things first - thank you everyone for the input, it made a difference on the decisions made for my character.
Second, for once I will give conclusion to an Advice thread - the character is built, and I will post him once I am on a laptop instead of my phone :P
I am NOT planning on multiclassing (I may be too much of a sucker for skills...) but if I do, I have a pretty decent idea what dips may be useful, and the reasons why.
I would definitely be an half-orc but alas, that race isn't available...
Last but not least, Lune and Fruian I AM going to build and play a Swashigator for PFS, where I am guaranteed to have all the drops/buys I need ;)
Again people thanks for the feedback. I think I'm starting another thread while I wait for my connection flight - this time I'm looking at a divine melee caster with a dash of arcane to round him/her up, since this thread set me up for it.
Peace!
Magus are king when it comes to fighting and casting efficiently, but their skill list makes me want to cry, as well as the amount of skill points (though with perhaps an uncanny Int stat I could offset this some) - in spite of me always tending for Str based magus (I admit I never played a Magus), I suspect Dex might be the way to go in this case, since it would assist with other roguish skills. But again, their skill...
I am managing to fulfill the roles of both tank and scout in Rappan Athuk as a dexterity based kensai.
I used my traits + Additional Traits to fill out my skill list.
Snowlilly, any chance you can post that build? I would be really curious about it since when I was equating it, and even with an 18 Int, 6 skills/level seemed like too short for me, mainly because I would have to use half of those for Perception, Stealth, and Disable Device, and because Perception would never be very good.
BUT if you are succeeding in Rappan Athuk, I would definitely like to see it :D
Snowlilly, any chance you can post that build? I would be really curious about it since when I was equating it, and even with an 18 Int, 6 skills/level seemed like too short for me, mainly because I would have to use half of those for Perception, Stealth, and Disable Device, and because Perception would never be very good.
BUT if you are succeeding in Rappan Athuk, I would definitely like to see it :D
You'll have 7 sp/level if human. You will also qualify for Fast Learner, giving you eight sp/level without sacrificing HP.
I'll post the build later tonight, just note, the build's not optimized for DPR. While I can deal damage, there are three characters in the group already built for DPR.
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mainly because I would have to use half of those for Perception, Stealth, and Disable Device, and because Perception
How many points you dedicating to stealth when you can cast invisibility?
Magus has a lot of answers to mundane things.
Need to disable a trap? Use a wand of Mount and send the summoned meat through it.
The trap magical? Dispel Magic it.
Need to be able to see the magical trap? Detect magic + Perception
The list goes on but some of the skills your looking into can be circumvented.
Snowlilly, any chance you can post that build? I would be really curious about it since when I was equating it, and even with an 18 Int, 6 skills/level seemed like too short for me, mainly because I would have to use half of those for Perception, Stealth, and Disable Device, and because Perception would never be very good.
BUT if you are succeeding in Rappan Athuk, I would definitely like to see it :D
N Medium humanoid (human)
Init +13; Senses Perception +18
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Defense
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AC 26, touch 21, flat-footed 16 (+4 armor, +1 deflection, +6 Dex, +4 dodge, +1 natural)
hp 59 (7d8+21)
Fort +9, Ref +10 (+2 competence to avoid falling (including falling prone)), Will +8
Defensive Abilities canny defense +4
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee katana +14 (1d8+10/18-20)
Special Attacks arcane pool (+2, 6 points), magus arcana (spell blending [2 spells of lower level][UM]), spell combat, spellstrike
Magus (Bladebound, Kensai) Spells Prepared (CL 7th; concentration +13)
. . 3rd—haste
. . 2nd—alter self, bladed dash, mirror image
. . 1st—grease, mage armor, shield, shocking grasp
. . 0 (at will)—open/close (DC 14), prestidigitation, read magic, touch of fatigue (DC 14)
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Statistics
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Str 10, Dex 22, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +5; CMB +5; CMD 26 (28 vs. trip)
Feats Additional Traits, Arcane Strike, Fast Learner[ARG], Slashing Grace[ACG], Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (katana), Weapon Specialization (katana)
Traits bandit (river kingdoms), focused mind, reactionary, seeker, trap finder
Skills Acrobatics +11, Climb +4, Disable Device +19, Fly +10, Knowledge (arcana) +10, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +10, Knowledge (engineering) +5, Knowledge (planes) +10, Knowledge (religion) +6, Linguistics +5, Perception +18, Sense Motive +2, Spellcraft +14, Stealth +17, Swim +4, Use Magic Device +9
Languages Abyssal, Aklo, Common, Goblin, Orc, Undercommon, Varisian
SQ black blade, black blade: arcane pool, black blade: energy attunement, black blade: strike, black blade: telepathy, black blade: unbreakable, chosen weapon, iaijutsu, paranoid, perfect strike
Combat Gear oil of bless weapon (2), pearl of power (1st level), potion of barkskin +2, potion of good hope, wand of cure light wounds (23 charges), alchemist's fire (5), antiplague[APG], antitoxin, oil (5); Other Gear acrobat slippers[UE], effortless lace, amulet of natural armor +1, belt of incredible dexterity +4, cape of free will +2/+3, cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone, eyes of the eagle, handy haversack, headband of vast intelligence +2, ioun torch ioun stone[APG], ring of protection +1, candle (2), chalk, hammer, hemp rope (50 ft.), hooded lantern, masterwork thieves' tools, piton (4), sack (2), tindertwig (4), torch (2), 625 gp
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Special Abilities
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Acrobat slippers +2 to Ref saves vs. falling & retain Dex when climb/run/balance with Acrobatics.
Antitoxin This substance counteracts a specific toxin. If you drink a vial of antitoxin, you gain a +5 alchemical bonus on Fortitude saving throws against poison for 1 hour.
Alchemical Power Component
Like antiplague, this substance can augment certain healing spells.
Neutralize Poison (M): Add +2 on your caster level check to neutralize poison on a target creature. Antitoxin has no effect when you cast the spell on an object.
Arcane Pool +2 (6/day) (Su) Infuse own power into a held weapon, granting enhancement bonus or selected item powers.
Arcane Strike As a swift action, add +1 damage, +1 per 5 caster levels and your weapons are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Bandit (River Kingdoms, Stealth) +1 to Stealth checks, Stealth is always a class skill for you.
Black Blade (Ex) You gain an intelligent bonded weapon whose power grows with your own.
Black Blade: Arcane Pool (2/day) (Su) The Black Blade has an Arcane Pool used to fuel its own abilities.
Black Blade: Energy Attunement (Su) Replace weapon dam with fire/cold/elec for 1 point, or sonic/force for 2 points.
Black Blade: Strike +2 (Sp) The Black Blade can grant itself a damage bonus for 1 min.
Black Blade: Telepathy (Su) The magus can telepathically communicate with his black blade if it is worn or held.
Black Blade: Unbreakable (Ex) The Black Blade is immune to the broken condition while the arcane pool is not empty.
Canny Defense +4 (Ex) +INT bonus to AC (max Kensai level).
Cape of free will +2/+3 Spend 1 power as immediate action to reroll failed Will save.
Chosen Weapon (Katana) Kensai abilities only function when wielding a weapon of this type.
Focused Mind +2 to Concentration checks
Iaijutsu (Ex) May draw chosen weapon and make attacks of opportunity when flat footed.
Ioun torch This item is merely a burned out, dull gray ioun stone with a continual flame spell cast upon it. It retains the ability to float and orbit, and allows the bearer to carry light and still have his hands free. It may be in any crystalline shape common to ioun stones (ellipsoid, prism, sphere, and so on).
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, continual flame, creator must be 12th level; Cost 62 gp, 5 sp
Paranoid Aid Another DC 15 for attempts to help you.
Perfect Strike (Ex) Use 1 arcane pool to maximize weapon dam, or 2 for +1 to crit multiplier.
Slashing Grace (Katana) Treat chosen weapon as 1-handed piercing weapon and can had Dex instead of Str to dmg.
Spell Combat (Ex) Use a weapon with one hand at -2 and cast a spell with the other.
Spellstrike (Su) Deliver touch spells as part of a melee attack.
Trap Finder Use Disable Device to disarm magic traps, like a rogue.
The only buff active is Mage Armor. With a 7 hour duration, it's pretty much always up.
The Trap Finder trait not only gives Disable Device as a class skill, it allows you to disable magical traps.
Hello everyone,
I'm about to take on a Mummy Mask game (no spoilers please), and even though it is not definitely set in stone, it would seem I will be sort of accumulating the 'tank' (I am aware this is not an MMO) and scout/roguish roles.
Tank, Scout and Caster? I was kind of thinking this was going to be a Summoner thread.
The most powerful character I ever made was a mounted Summoner who took one level of Dragoon and rode his eidolon in combat (not always, but often). The pair were a deadly martial threat acting in concert, and he was an incredibly effective caster for the group, most often as a buffer and utility guy. When he summoned other monsters it was usually for their various spell-casting abilities or their unique abilities, such as flight, underwater combat or healing.
Alternately, a Master Summoner with a small eidolon built for scouting would be ideal, if not quite the martial threat you're looking for. Summoned creatures are great for tanking and having a stealth-enhanced eidolon with darkvision and the ability to communicate with you telepathically is pretty awesome.
Good luck can't wait to see your build.
Snowlilly: Your character looks good indeed :D
I do have a couple of questions if that is ok:
- how often has darkness become an issue? Since you don't have Darkvision;
- I see the pearl of power, has it been enough to make up for the diminished spellcasting?
- Since this is not PFS, and you are completely focused on the Katana, have you been bypassing many magical weapons due to that?
- I am very impressed at how high you managed to get your Perception based on a Wis 10. I'll be taking notes from your gear list :D
Hello everyone,
I'm about to take on a Mummy Mask game (no spoilers please), and even though it is not definitely set in stone, it would seem I will be sort of accumulating the 'tank' (I am aware this is not an MMO) and scout/roguish roles.
Tank, Scout and Caster? I was kind of thinking this was going to be a Summoner thread.
The most powerful character I ever made was a mounted Summoner who took one level of Dragoon and rode his eidolon in combat (not always, but often). The pair were a deadly martial threat acting in concert, and he was an incredibly effective caster for the group, most often as a buffer and utility guy. When he summoned other monsters it was usually for their various spell-casting abilities or their unique abilities, such as flight, underwater combat or healing.
Alternately, a Master Summoner with a small eidolon built for scouting would be ideal, if not quite the martial threat you're looking for. Summoned creatures are great for tanking and having a stealth-enhanced eidolon with darkvision and the ability to communicate with you telepathically is pretty awesome.
BOOM! Master Wiggz, thank you for posting in my thread - you know how much I appreciate your input, and your builds.
Some posts above, I did stat out a Combat oriented summoner, with a scouting/skills Eidolon - I did come across a few bumps in the road, namely needing to learn how to combine summoned creatures with melee combat (never played a character like that), deciding if Master Summoner would be the way to go, or a base Summoner, and tackling the Unchained Summoner rules (I don't have the book), etc.
Good luck can't wait to see your build.
Well, here he is - alias above. Let me know your thoughts.