Kitsune Tails - Now online faster than ever!


Advice


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Dirty tactics toolbox introduced a new racial trait for Kitsune. Nine-tailed Scion gives a +1 trait bonus to any racial spell-like abilities, and the ones gained from the Magical Tail feat. It also grants the option to take the magical tail feat whenever you would be granted a bonus metamagic, combat, or bloodline feat.

This means Kitsune fighters can have a whole host of HD-based SLAs online by sixth level, capping off with 2/day Dominate Person (5th level spell!).

The downside, obviously, is that the building is set in stone out of the gate. With one other trait to select, and freedom to choose archetypes as long as they don't interfere with bonus feats, plus equipment, what suggestions does anyone have on improving this?

For the sake of convenience, here is the lineup of abilities gained from magical tail:
disguise self, charm person, misdirection, invisibility, suggestion, displacement, confusion, dominate person


Martial Master gives you some feats back starting at 5th level, which might help.

An Agile weapon as soon as you can afford one is probably essential.

What level are you starting at?


This is just theory crafting at this point. General assumption of playing from level 1 onwards


Probably go Mutagen Warrior/Martial Master. Suffer the Str penalty and use Mutagen Warrior to offset it. Use Martial Master to pick up Power Attack when you can.

Alternatively, same archetypes, but pick up weapon finesse at 1st level and enjoy being weak until you can pick up an agile weapon. Use Martial Master to pick up either piranha strike or TWF (probably Piranha strike so you don't need two 8k weapons). Until you get Agile it will be painful - fighters have terrible skills, you won't do diddly for damage and the best you have for offense is 3xcharm person until level 5.


The trouble is, until you reach displacement there's not great benefit to a fighter from those SLAs in combat, and out of combat a fighter will lack the skills to make this great. Kitsune have a strength penalty and you can't afford even weapon finesse or point blank shot to go with dex-based fighting until level 7 (5 w/martial master, but temporarily.)

Starting from first level this looks like a world of pain to play.


Is the feat worded in such a way that you could grab the tails using brawler's martial flexibility or similar abilities?


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It's a trait; "Additionally, you can select magical tail as a bonus feat whenever your favored class grants you a bonus bloodline feat, combat feat, or metamagic feat instead of the normal type of feat granted by the class. You cannot exchange specific feats granted by a class or race for magical tail in this manner;--"

Fighter 6 is the fastest way to get all of the spell like abilities online, but I would be interested to hear about other build ideas as well.


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Kitsune Fighter 6 gives you 7 feats; you want 8 for all the tails, so 1 level later, fighter 7.

An unchained rogue can use these SLAs a bit better. Combat trick will give you one feat early anyway, two at level 10, and you can fight effectively with dex.

An arcanist can get two feats from exploits (one item creation, one metamagic) and as a full caster is capable of contributing easily, and as an int based caster will have some skills, and finally it has some reason to boost cha. It can simply cast the spells, but there's some benefit in using SLAs with no visible components.

Then of course there's multiclassing; unchained rogue 3 / mutation warrior fighter 4 could get 4 bonus feats plus the usual 4 from level and fight fairly effectively with a rapier, and maybe have enough skills to use them subtly.


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this is actually very similar to a racial trait for kitsune that was printed in the Kitsune Compendium by Everyman Gaming, glad there is a 1st party way to do it now :D (if this gets seen by the author, I LOVE THAT BOOK)


It specifically calls out favored class which makes multiclassing to grab the feats complicated.


ErichAD wrote:
It specifically calls out favored class which makes multiclassing to grab the feats complicated.

That's awkward ... If you could take a trait printed for 3.5, Finding Haleen, you could get a second favored class, but it wouldn't be surprising if your GM said no given the age and the fact it's for a specific campaign.


Wouldn't you be able to get this trait through Adopted?


Pounce wrote:
Wouldn't you be able to get this trait through Adopted?

Sure, but you'd still need to take Racial Heritage to qualify for the feat, and you'd need to contend with the Racial Heritage (Kobold) ruling.


The Racial Heritage (Kobold) ruling isn't an issue. Unlike the kobold feat, magic tail says you grow a tail.


Kitsune Rogue can assmble all tails by level 9. Taking the swashbuckler Rogue Archetype allows you to take 3 bonus feats via Ninja Trick: Combat Trick and Combat Trickx2. While a number of your SLA really benefit a rogue you don't get the biggie in dominate person until level 9 which isn't especially early however. If you could somehow get proficiency in the Elven Branched Spear that would be neat...

Kitsune Rogue (Swashbuckler)
Traits:
Nine-tailed Scion; Irrepresible
FCB used for extra Rogue Talents
STR 8 DEX 18 CON 12 INT 8 WIS 10 CHA 18

1 1st Tail Weapon Finesse
2 Rogue Talent: 2nd Tail
3 3rd Tail Dex to Damage
4 Debilitating Inury; Rogue Talent: 4th Tail
5 5th Tail; Skill unlock
6 Rogue Talent: 6th Tail ; FCB Rogue Talent: Open
7 7th Tail
8 Open Rogue Talent
9 8th Tail


avr wrote:
Kitsune Fighter 6 gives you 7 feats; you want 8 for all the tails, so 1 level later, fighter 7.

Yeah, I realized my miscount, but I can't edit my original post. :\

Looking at FCB options, would the Kitsune Sorcerer option work for their SLAs?
"Add +1/4 to the DC of enchantment spells."
If so, then even with the persistent consumption of standard feats (Sorcs only getting three across 20lvl progression), this would probably still be the way to go.

Any merits to Swashbuckler or a Mysterious Stranger (yes yes, RR and PB/PS come first...) Gunslinger using these? Abilities are in the right places, and they get a handful of combat feats starting at early levels.


Alex Mack wrote:
Kitsune Rogue can asesmble all tails by level 9. Taking the swashbuckler Rogue Archetype allows you to take 3 bonus feats via Ninja Trick: Combat Trick and Combat Trickx2.

A rogue cannot select a ninja trick with the same name as a rogue talent. As such, a Kitsune Swashbuckler Rogue can assemble all tails by level 11.


Ryzoken wrote:
Alex Mack wrote:
Kitsune Rogue can asesmble all tails by level 9. Taking the swashbuckler Rogue Archetype allows you to take 3 bonus feats via Ninja Trick: Combat Trick and Combat Trickx2.
A rogue cannot select a ninja trick with the same name as a rogue talent. As such, a Kitsune Swashbuckler Rogue can assemble all tails by level 11.

Hmm did they fix that with the recent ultimate combat FAQ? Anyhow I was wondering could you swap out bonus feats from the Ranger Combat Style if so a Slayer could also do this rather swiftly.

Also Half Elf with Racial Heritage Adopted and Fighter Rogue Multiclass should be able to do it swiftly.

Grand Lodge

A Half-Elf with Racial Heritage can use two classes for it, as they can choose two favored classes.


What do you take for the second favored class, Sohei? mounted combat feats are a subset of combat feats, so maybe that counts? Two fighter, two Sohei and two of either fighter or rogue would get you there by 6th.

Otherwise, the best we can do that I know of is taking those first two fighter levels then either fighter or rogue on up.

Grand Lodge

I am just saying there are options, if one wishes to multiclass.


Backlash3906 wrote:
avr wrote:
Kitsune Fighter 6 gives you 7 feats; you want 8 for all the tails, so 1 level later, fighter 7.

Yeah, I realized my miscount, but I can't edit my original post. :\

Looking at FCB options, would the Kitsune Sorcerer option work for their SLAs?
"Add +1/4 to the DC of enchantment spells."
If so, then even with the persistent consumption of standard feats (Sorcs only getting three across 20lvl progression), this would probably still be the way to go.

Any merits to Swashbuckler or a Mysterious Stranger (yes yes, RR and PB/PS come first...) Gunslinger using these? Abilities are in the right places, and they get a handful of combat feats starting at early levels.

I want to know if it will work with the kitsune sorcerer as well?


The favoured class bonus is for spells.

Silver Crusade Contributor

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Hazrond wrote:
this is actually very similar to a racial trait for kitsune that was printed in the Kitsune Compendium by Everyman Gaming, glad there is a 1st party way to do it now :D (if this gets seen by the author, I LOVE THAT BOOK)

I believe the Kitsune Compendium and this trait were both written by Alexander Augunas. ^_^


There's actually a slower but far easier way too. There's also a new Kitsune curse for oracles that lets a Kitsune take a tail feat instead of a mystery spell. It's slower, sure, but it seems good to me. It also gives you some extra spells known in addition to that.

The duration of a bunch of effects that can happen to you increases by 50% though, so that's difficult. Failing a fort save seems like it will be especially difficult for you.

Right now I'm picturing a Fighter Oracle gestalt that makes use of both options though, and becomes a Battle Oracle Extraordinare.

Or maybe rogue in place of fighter to be extra tricky.


Lanitril wrote:
There's actually a slower but far easier way too. There's also a new Kitsune curse for oracles that lets a Kitsune take a tail feat instead of a mystery spell. It's slower, sure, but it seems good to me. It also gives you some extra spells known in addition to that.

That curse effectively means you can take a Magical Tail feat at every level starting at 1 until you get your last tail at level 8. Not a terrible way to go. It does lock you out of quite a few archetypes for Oracle, but hey! Spirit Guide is not one of the locked out archetypes! So a Kitsune Spirit Guide Oracle 8 would have all the tails, virtually no benefit from their selected mystery other than a single revelation chosen at level 1, but would get flexible extra spells known and hex from Wandering Spirit, making up for the lost spells from mystery...

And I now know what I'll be rebuilding my level 8 PFS Occultist Arcanist into. Kineticist? Pshaw. Kitsune Oracle baby! Assuming it's made legal...


Don't forget warpriests! A human warpriest with Racial Heritage (Kitsune) could grab all the tails by level 9.


Heheh. Most people's reason for taking the feat line isn't for the SLAs, it's so you can have a 9 tailed fox. An 8 tailed human has all those SLAs, but in the end, it's not why I'm here. Nice try though. Still good. Kitsune Warpriest could be really good too.


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Lanitril wrote:
Heheh. Most people's reason for taking the feat line isn't for the SLAs, it's so you can have a 9 tailed fox. An 8 tailed human has all those SLAs, but in the end, it's not why I'm here. Nice try though. Still good. Kitsune Warpriest could be really good too.

Play an Agathion Aassimar, and fluff them as having a Fox tail. There is even an Agathion that looks quite similar to a Kitsune, so it's as simple as saying that the Aasimar is descended from a Vulpinal Agathion.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Snowblind wrote:
Lanitril wrote:
Heheh. Most people's reason for taking the feat line isn't for the SLAs, it's so you can have a 9 tailed fox. An 8 tailed human has all those SLAs, but in the end, it's not why I'm here. Nice try though. Still good. Kitsune Warpriest could be really good too.
Play an Agathion Aassimar, and fluff them as having a Fox tail. There is even an Agathion that looks quite similar to a Kitsune, so it's as simple as saying that the Aasimar is descended from a Vulpinal Agathion.

And Blood of Humanity lets them take Racial Heritage.

Bastards of Golarion also provides some justification for a human with Racial Heritage (kitsune) to have a fox tail.


I was already planning to grab most of the feats with my kitsune swashbuckler, and this will make it possible to get all 8, and up the DCs to boot! I think it'll help give some nice utility and defensive abilities.


Samuel F. B. Morse wrote:
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Nicely done. This was useful.


I think i went a bit overboard making *the* most stereotypical setup for Kitsune, basically going for a enchantress based sorcerer with the archtype from everyman gaming:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/everyman-g aming-llc---sorcerer-archetypes/nine-tailed-mystic-sorcerer

Contributor

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Hazrond wrote:
this is actually very similar to a racial trait for kitsune that was printed in the Kitsune Compendium by Everyman Gaming, glad there is a 1st party way to do it now :D (if this gets seen by the author, I LOVE THAT BOOK)

That's because I wrote both the Kitsune Compendium AND the Trickster Races rules in the Dirty Tactics Toolbox. ;-)

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

That's very cool. I'd love to have this and Dirty Fighter...perhaps a Half Orc with Heritage.


Bringing this thread back for further consideration, now that Desna's Shooting Star (Divine Fighting Technique) enables a full-CHA melee or close ranged build.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

The generic kitsune Favored Class Bonus in Blood of the Beast is germane as well.

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