So I'm currently involved in a high power, high loot game. I decided to go with the gunslinger for my character and my race is Tiefling (Faultspawn). My stats are as follows:
Str: 14
Dex: 19
Con: 15
Int: 13
Wis: 18
Cha: 14
As this is a high power game (or so my DM has informed me) he had me start with a Rifle... yes a rifle.
So I'm trying to decide if I should go 20 levels of gunslinger, and what archetype if any... or if I should go 1 level gunslinger and the rest as a trench fighter. I don't feel the gunslinger does very much for me since I'm used advanced weapons. What are everyone's thoughts?
Also, any other build suggestions are appreciated.
On a side note, this is a gunslinger based in an emerging guns setting, not guns everywhere.
Long as you get dex to damage. You're probably better off in this case going trench-fighter, and then moving on into greener pastures.
Get one level of Mysterious Stranger and get mend as a SLA(with trait), or regular gunslinger. From then on 3 levels of trchfighter if allowed and the you should go Straight paladin. Your saves will be stellar and your damage will go trough the roof. Get a mount and you can move and full attack. If you go mounted you should be a halfling so you can mvoe and full attack all day. Get A silver bracelet and you will get full character level for smite even tought you multiclassed.
As of now gunslinger past 5 is not worth it. only thing its worth is myserious stranger signture deed, but thats it. the rest is garbage
Really, rifle isn't even amazing, I'd go crossbow and Bolt Ace 5 myself, guns still deal with a lot of jank (even the advanced ones), and a crossbow will serve you better with bolt ace.
Sadly paladin is banned from the campaign. It's a non-good game where we work for basically a mob boss in a middle eastern type setting. So my character is a hired assassin. Also several players are newer to pathfinder so the dm chose to forego traits to avoid extra rules.
Sorry, I forgot to mention those restrictions.
Edit: N. jolly, I'm aware of the several limitations and drawbacks of firearms (I've read your guide quite a few times lol), but I was enjoying some of the backstory I worked out with the dm for a gun using character. I'd definitely agree with you that the Bolt Ace would probably be superior or at the least equal to the current character build I have.
Also great guide btw, I'm a huge fan of your many guides (I look forward to more clarifications on the kineticist for future characters).
MaxBarton wrote: Sadly paladin is banned from the campaign. It's a non-good game where we work for basically a mob boss in a middle eastern type setting. So my character is a hired assassin. Also several players are newer to pathfinder so the dm chose to forego traits to avoid extra rules.
Sorry, I forgot to mention those restrictions.
Edit: N. jolly, I'm aware of the several limitations and drawbacks of firearms (I've read your guide quite a few times lol), but I was enjoying some of the backstory I worked out with the dm for a gun using character. I'd definitely agree with you that the Bolt Ace would probably be superior or at the least equal to the current character build I have.
Also great guide btw, I'm a huge fan of your many guides (I look forward to more clarifications on the kineticist for future characters).
Glad to hear it, you just asked for power advice and I wanted to give it.
As per your question, if the game is planning on going to higher level, go GS 5 since having Fighter levels to take for multiclass purposes is pretty great (Weapon Master especially), although if you're not going to be reaching higher levels (I'd say 10+), GS 1/Trench 3 is fine, since you don't need nearly as many multiclass levels to make value out of it.
Kineticist is close to finishing, sample characters are going to take forever, but magic items is really the only section left that I really feel is missing.
Since you've got a rifle, you're going to need Musket Master. Hands down, Musket Master is the best way to use a two-handed firearm.
Antipaladin 2 is strong if you need a smite and Divine Grace in another form.
There are some Barbarian archetypes that give you Dex in a rage. That might be nice for a level or two, especially if you can find another way of advancing your effective level for rage powers.
Sohei might be fun, if you can get past the 6 level hurdle. Gun-flurry for the win.
My Self wrote: Since you've got a rifle, you're going to need Musket Master. Hands down, Musket Master is the best way to use a two-handed firearm.
Antipaladin 2 is strong if you need a smite and Divine Grace in another form.
There are some Barbarian archetypes that give you Dex in a rage. That might be nice for a level or two, especially if you can find another way of advancing your effective level for rage powers.
Sohei might be fun, if you can get past the 6 level hurdle. Gun-flurry for the win.
Musket Master looses almost all of its benefits with advanced weapons. If I were using standard firearms I'd agree with your assessment.
MaxBarton wrote: My Self wrote: Since you've got a rifle, you're going to need Musket Master. Hands down, Musket Master is the best way to use a two-handed firearm.
Antipaladin 2 is strong if you need a smite and Divine Grace in another form.
There are some Barbarian archetypes that give you Dex in a rage. That might be nice for a level or two, especially if you can find another way of advancing your effective level for rage powers.
Sohei might be fun, if you can get past the 6 level hurdle. Gun-flurry for the win.
Musket Master looses almost all of its benefits with advanced weapons. If I were using standard firearms I'd agree with your assessment. You're still getting rapid reload for free, that's putting you ahead of the game by a feat, so it's not a total waste.
If you have advanced firearms use Trench Fighter 3/Something worth being level 20 of. I would probably pick antipaladin, but even Slayer would get more mileage than Gunslinger.
Bonus feats from fighter are better feat economy than Musket Master.
hiiamtom wrote: If you have advanced firearms use Trench Fighter 3/Something worth being level 20 of. I would probably pick antipaladin, but even Slayer would get more mileage than Gunslinger. Or rather something worth being level 17 of.
A rifle is pretty useless to a pistolero and to properly abuse the gunslinger you need a TWFing pistolero. What puts the pistolero over the top is 11 levels to get signature deed: up close and deadly, on top of deadly aim, on top of DEX to damage all done to 9 attacks per round )at BAB 16+ with speed, TWFing & rapid shot) made to touch AC against anyone close enough to attack you. A tiefling only needs a prehensile tail to handle the reloading rules.
At level 12 a TWFing pistolero should be looking at 7 or 8 pistol attacks/round to touch AC doing 1d10 + 10 (deadly aim) + 9 (pistol training with a 26 dexterity) + 3d6 (up close and deadly) with non-magic pistols for something like 175 DPR. After level 11 and signature deed it can be worthwhile to take vanilla fighter (not trench fighter as the GM is likely to allow pistol training to stack with trench fighting) to get weapon training (gloves of dueling) and weapon specialization for more damage (and feats, the TWF pistolero uses a metric crapload of feats). And if you really want to get the gunslinger banned from play use double pistols and interpret the rules freely to make each attack a double attack which should almost double your damage output.
I find it best to take UMD for scrolls of abundant ammunition and casting greater magic weapon on ammo to get the magic pluses while enchanting pistols to +1 only with a spare or 3 for misfires, then putting flaming/distance/bane/whatever on them. Also I find that a single pistol working to rapid shot before getting a second pistol and TWFing is easier to handle than trying to get a second pistol and TWFing right away. Note that you will figuratively be shooting money out the barrels of your pistols so this is not such a good idea for a non-high-loot game.
The extra feat is good I guess, but I don't like loosing the proficiencies. Also I feel vanilla deeds are better than mm with advanced firearms.
If I do go gs5 is there a better multi class option than straight fighter?
MaxBarton wrote: The extra feat is good I guess, but I don't like loosing the proficiencies. Also I feel vanilla deeds are better than mm with advanced firearms.
If I do go gs5 is there a better multi class option than straight fighter?
Antipaladin
Sohei Monk
Barbarian (with an archetype)
Slayer
Luring Cavalier
Practically anything with full BAB or pseudo-full BAB and good saves is a win. With one very special exception, Fighter has the worst saves in the game. Every other single good save martial character (Swashbuckler, Barbarian, Cavalier) has a save booster, and the rest of the full BAB classes have 2 good saves (Gunslinger, Ranger, Brawler, Slayer, Unchained Monk, Paladin/Antipaladin).
I would go Trench Fighter 3/Ranger 17.
You get PBM or Improved Precise Shot early, along with the normal ranger trappings.
If you go Gunslinger 5, I would probably go very unconventional and pick up Battle Host so my bonded rifle CANNOT BE BROKEN. I might even do that with trench fighter 4 (for 16 BAB).
cnetarian wrote: A rifle is pretty useless to a pistolero and to properly abuse the gunslinger you need a TWFing pistolero. What puts the pistolero over the top is 11 levels to get signature deed: up close and deadly, on top of deadly aim, on top of DEX to damage all done to 9 attacks per round )at BAB 16+ with speed, TWFing & rapid shot) made to touch AC against anyone close enough to attack you. A tiefling only needs a prehensile tail to handle the reloading rules.
At level 12 a TWFing pistolero should be looking at 7 or 8 pistol attacks/round to touch AC doing 1d10 + 10 (deadly aim) + 9 (pistol training with a 26 dexterity) + 3d6 (up close and deadly) with non-magic pistols for something like 175 DPR. After level 11 and signature deed it can be worthwhile to take vanilla fighter (not trench fighter as the GM is likely to allow pistol training to stack with trench fighting) to get weapon training (gloves of dueling) and weapon specialization for more damage (and feats, the TWF pistolero uses a metric crapload of feats). And if you really want to get the gunslinger banned from play use double pistols and interpret the rules freely to make each attack a double attack which should almost double your damage output.
I find it best to take UMD for scrolls of abundant ammunition and casting greater magic weapon on ammo to get the magic pluses while enchanting pistols to +1 only with a spare or 3 for misfires, then putting flaming/distance/bane/whatever on them. Also I find that a single pistol working to rapid shot before getting a second pistol and TWFing is easier to handle than trying to get a second pistol and TWFing right away. Note that you will figuratively be shooting money out the barrels of your pistols so this is not such a good idea for a non-high-loot game.
signature deed doesn't work with erratad up close and deadly
MaxBarton wrote: The extra feat is good I guess, but I don't like loosing the proficiencies. Also I feel vanilla deeds are better than mm with advanced firearms.
If I do go gs5 is there a better multi class option than straight fighter?
there are many things you can do,
multiclass wizard to go to eldrtich knight will get you ulity
I prefer Slayer over fighter personally, more skills
Ah yeah one way or another get UMD, and if you can get a familiar and some money you can use a nifty trick i discovered. Have your familiar UMD a wand of "named bullet" and one shot things, sniper style
There's a Sniper slayer if you're interested.
nicholas storm wrote: cnetarian wrote: A rifle is pretty useless to a pistolero and to properly abuse the gunslinger you need a TWFing pistolero. What puts the pistolero over the top is 11 levels to get signature deed: up close and deadly, on top of deadly aim, on top of DEX to damage all done to 9 attacks per round )at BAB 16+ with speed, TWFing & rapid shot) made to touch AC against anyone close enough to attack you. A tiefling only needs a prehensile tail to handle the reloading rules.
At level 12 a TWFing pistolero should be looking at 7 or 8 pistol attacks/round to touch AC doing 1d10 + 10 (deadly aim) + 9 (pistol training with a 26 dexterity) + 3d6 (up close and deadly) with non-magic pistols for something like 175 DPR. After level 11 and signature deed it can be worthwhile to take vanilla fighter (not trench fighter as the GM is likely to allow pistol training to stack with trench fighting) to get weapon training (gloves of dueling) and weapon specialization for more damage (and feats, the TWF pistolero uses a metric crapload of feats). And if you really want to get the gunslinger banned from play use double pistols and interpret the rules freely to make each attack a double attack which should almost double your damage output.
I find it best to take UMD for scrolls of abundant ammunition and casting greater magic weapon on ammo to get the magic pluses while enchanting pistols to +1 only with a spare or 3 for misfires, then putting flaming/distance/bane/whatever on them. Also I find that a single pistol working to rapid shot before getting a second pistol and TWFing is easier to handle than trying to get a second pistol and TWFing right away. Note that you will figuratively be shooting money out the barrels of your pistols so this is not such a good idea for a non-high-loot game.
signature deed doesn't work with erratad up close and deadly Darn errataed 2 weeks ago, ruined signature deed too by only allowing it to be used once per round. Well with signature deed ruined there is no reason to go above gunslinger level 1. Level 1 gunslinger (vanilla) switch to savage technologist barbarian for 5 levels to get DEX to damage and raging DEX bonus, then fighter for weapon training (gloves of dueling) and feats (including weapon specialization). TWFing pistols a level 1 gunslinger/level 5 savage technologist/ level 6 fighter would be attacking 7 or 8 times per round for 1d10 + 10 (deadly aim) +10 (DEX to damage with raging dexterity of 30) +3 (weapon training:firearms & gloves of dueling) +2 weapon specialization - but this is only good for the 1 minute of combat day. For a longer day trenchfighter seems to work fine but be aware that at a certain point the lack of armor training will cause problems with the armor DEX max.
Trench Fighter is better than Savage Technologist unless you plan on using composite longbows. Savage Technologist makes for an amazing archer though.
I'm telling you though, Battle Host. Ignore all misfires.
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