Hi guys, I was wondering if you could help me with this. Can't seem to find it mentioned on this forum or in the rule book …
The villain Nulkineth in Wrath deck 2 says, "The damage death by Nulkineth is increased by your Divine bonus." What exactly is a Divine bonus? Does it include skill feat modifiers? For example, if im playing Adowyn, who has Divine: Wisdom +1, and I have the first box ticked in her Wisdom, and I take damage from Nulkineth … is that damage increased by 1 or 2?
I don't mean to be pedantic, but I know sometimes specific words have specific meanings in pathfinder, so I'm wondering if I'm missing something. The rule book mentions modifiers on page 7, but I can't see anything about bonuses (boni?) Thanks!
From the following quotes:
"...but she doesn’t like those odds. She plays the spell Good Omen to add 1 plus the scenario’s adventure deck number to the check; since she’s
playing a scenario in the first adventure, the total bonus from the spell is 2"
"Skill feats add a bonus to a skill of your choice: you’ll add the number next to the box you selected to any check attempted with that skill."
If your character has a power that allows him to add 1d4 to another character’s combat check, and you’ve checked the “+1” box next to it, you’ll add 1d4+1 to the other character’s check. These bonuses apply only when using the power on your character card..."
"To balance them with the ones in the box, each character should start with 15 cards on her Card List, no more than 1 d12 in her skills, and no more than 5 different skill bonuses.
"If a card adds another die, that’s all it gives you: a die. It doesn’t give you your bonuses again."
I tend to see your "bonus" as the sum of the "+" you have in a given skill (dice do not count), should you have to roll a check at that time.
So let's say there is a Sagacity spell displayed next to your character when you encounter that villain, and you have the Skill Divine=Wisdom+2, and your Wisdom is d8+4 because you invested 4 skill feats on Wisdom, your Divine bonus would be +4+3+2=9.
And obviously if you do not have the Divine skill your Divine bonus is 0.
But I may be corrected by anyone more knowledgeable.
Personally, I think I'd say just the Divine modifier. So +1 for Adowyn in your example. The reason being is this:
You can also make your own character and role cards. To balance them with the ones in the box, each character should start with 15 cards on her Card List, no more than 1 d12 in her skills, and no more than 5 different skill bonuses.
In that instance, it is talking about how many different skills you can have listed by sides the standard 6. So those are bonuses. Divine would be one of them.
That is what I'd do if I was dealing with this right now.
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Personally, I think I'd say just the Divine modifier. So +1 for Adowyn in your example. The reason being is this:
You can also make your own character and role cards. To balance them with the ones in the box, each character should start with 15 cards on her Card List, no more than 1 d12 in her skills, and no more than 5 different skill bonuses.In that instance, it is talking about how many different skills you can have listed by sides the standard 6. So those are bonuses. Divine would be one of them.
That is what I'd do if I was dealing with this right now.
Actually, I'd be playing it the way Frencois described it. If my Kyra had +4 Wisdom bonus and Divine: Wisdom +2 then I'd think her Divine bonus was +6. If I encountered the villain with Enora, my Divine bonus would be 0.
I can't say I could really argue against that. But it is kind of undefined. There are lots of potential things that could be part of a skill bonus:
1. The modifier directly to that skill.
2. The modifier from a skill that skill is based on.
3. Flat additions to a skill (Sagacity).
4. Character powers (Potentially. I can't think of anything right now aside from say Harsk gaining the Divine skill, but that falls back under 1 & 2.)
For #3, I think all those spells talk about adding to a check. They don't really seem to be your actual "Divine bonus". So I'm thinking it is 1 and maybe 2.
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Yeah, I can see where you were coming from. And I agree that it is not clear-cut one way or another.
I guess what swayed me was that this was a check against a villain. A WotR villain. And even though it was Adv Deck 2 villain, the "raw" Divine bonus (for those with Divine skill) was from +1 to +3 (Shaman). I'd think they'd want it more difficult than that. So if you're in Adv 2 (and I've only been playing OP scenarios), and you pumped up your Wis bonus as much as you can, you'd get another +3 at most? So you'd be looking at +4 to +6 bump in difficulty. I'd think that's more in line for a villain.
That's what made me think they were talking that your Divine bonus included the base skill bonuses as well.
The only thing that is definite is that if you don't have the Divine skill listed (or as a power), you are at a 0.
Ah, well I hadn't even thought about spells like Sagacity. The question came up for us the other day because we were playing this scenario for the first time, and I don't remember seeing the word "bonus" on any other cards.
Luckily we beat the scenario today (after the 4th attempt!) without ever failing a check to defeat that villain. At this point (sc. 2 of adv. 2), there has been only one skill feat reward so far, so I'm not sure what the difficulty bump should be. However, to be fair, defeating this villain summons another villain, whom you then have to defeat and corner in order to win the scenario. So maybe it's not supposed to be *too* much of a punishment.
Anyway, since I can see the logic in each of our different answers, this is a nice candidate for our weekly can'o'worms contest.
Luckily this hasn't come up in my games, but the more I think about it, the more I think it's your flat skill bonus. Like, spells won't affect it. What it says on your character sheet is what the bonus is (so, for Imrijka, it's +1).
If it were the difficulty of the check, I would vote for a cumulative bonus, but since it's damage dealt (which, for me most of the time, is "capped" at your hand size (essentially)), the smaller number makes more sense.
I can't think of a better way to word what I'm trying to say. :/
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Spells definitely wouldn't affect it, as those affect your skill at all, they just add to your check. I could see both ways on whether Lem would get his Charisma feats, but I'm inclined to say that he wouldn't. His Divine uses Charisma, but to me that does not mean his Divine bonus includes Charisma bonuses. Divine includes Cha bonuses, but being part of "Divine" is not the same as being part of "Divine bonuses".
While "bonus" isn't defined by the rulebook, "modifier" is and includes both the + from the skill itself as well as any skill feats.
This could mean that either:
a) It is a "typo" and the card is supposed to say modifier, or
b) A bonus is distinct from a modifier in some fashion
I'm partial to option b personally, so if someone had a skill feat in Wisdom and Divine: Wisdom +1, I'd say the Divine bonus is only 1 (and not 2), as using Divine only gives you a +1 bonus over a regular Wisdom check.
The part about "no more than 5 skill bonuses" in the rulebook also I think rules in that favor, as it helps establish that a bonus is a separate, distinct thing from a modifier (which does include skill feats).
Added to FAQ.
Thanks Vic for the FAQ, though....
The example given (If your character card says "Wisdom: d12 +1", and “Divine: Wisdom +2,” the modifier for your Divine skill is +3) still leaves a question on whether you modifier is affected by powers that may affect your skill.
I. e. :
A) If I'm under Sagacity, is my modifier modified (1)?
B) If I encounter Nulkineth, can I play a card that changes my modifier (my guess is NO cause I'm not really affecting a CHECK, but just checking (2)).
C) If I had a power that says "for you Divine skill, you may use you Meele skill instead", is my modifier modified?
Thanks for your insight.
(1) I like those kinds of puns... it's me playing with English!
(2) Ooops, I did it again.
If your character card says "Strength d10," and the "+1" box next to that has been checked, your Strength skill is d10+1, and your Strength die is d10. (The "+1" is called a "modifier.") If your character card also says "Melee: Strength +3," your Melee skill is d10+4, your Melee die is d10, and the modifier is +4.
So,
A) No
B) No Edit: misread the question. This is actually a Yes, but you can only do so if you fail the check to defeat and would therefore be taking damage. Note that any card you play needs to actually impact your modifier itself though (see below for one such example, although that would be more harmful than helpful in this instance).
C) No
The only card I know of that can modify your modifier would be Manual of War, because you can use that card to pretend you have an extra skill feat.