Skeleton Summoner: Coal or Diamond?

[Drimoran]

Skeleton Summoner:

Add "human skeleton" to the list of creatures you can summon with summon monster I and "human skeletal champion" to the list of creatures you can summon with summon monster III. Once per day, when you cast summon monster, you may summon a skeletal version of one of the creatures on that spell's summoning list (apply the skeleton template to that creature to create this monster).

So I guess the new summons are ok. But what is it worth when you have higher summons?. I guess it all depends on what they mean with "skeleton template".

There is a crappy skeleton template wich would make my summons lose all of their feat and extra health per HD. So I thought, why take this feat? Then I read until the end of the page and saw that there were several skeleton templates. Am I allowed to apply anyone of those tempaltes?

I can see how the bloody skeleton could benefit from fast healing (but not from deathless). I can also see how a burning skeleton would come really handy (if they die). And there are the variants from Classic Horrors Revisited wich I can definitely see them handy.

If the feat would allow me to apply once a day any of these templates, then I beleive it is a good, versatile, fun and themed feat. If not, I beleive I am not taking it anymore. So I need your knowledge, guys. How does it work?

TLDR: Can I use Skeleton Summoner to apply any skeleton template once a day or just the flat boring underpowering common template?

[Robb Smith]

The common template. And it's not underpowered. There are very numerous, very substantial advantages to being undead and inherent to the skeleton template that often outweigh the things you lose, like:

D20PFSRD wrote:

Darkvision 60 feet.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
Immunity to bleed, death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.
Not subject to nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Constitution, Dexterity, and Strength), as well as to exhaustion and fatigue effects.
Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature's Intelligence score.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).

[Milo v3]

You can't use bloody skeleton or burning skeleton, as the feat says "the skeleton template". So unfortunately, it's a rather crap feat.

[Drimoran]

I will ask my master to houserule this because it is what I think this feat needs (It even asks for a prerequisite). I was almost sure of what to play in our next game, it depends on this.

Thanks for you quick answers

[Kyaaadaa]

Robb Smith wrote:

The common template. And it's not underpowered. There are very numerous, very substantial advantages to being undead and inherent to the skeleton template that often outweigh the things you lose, like:

D20PFSRD wrote:

Darkvision 60 feet.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
Immunity to bleed, death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.
Not subject to nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Constitution, Dexterity, and Strength), as well as to exhaustion and fatigue effects.
Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature's Intelligence score.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).

I might have missed it, but I believe you also forgot DR 5/Bludgeoning and Immunity to Cold damage. Also, though not that it really matters, but Improved Initiative.

Edit: CHA bonus to HP instead of CON, so it might still get bonus HP.

[Drimoran]

Kyaaadaa wrote:

CHA bonus to HP instead of CON, so it might still get bonus HP.

From the skeleton tempalte:

Abilities: A skeleton's Dexterity increases by +2. It has no Constitution or Intelligence score, and its Wisdom and Charisma scores change to 10.

So same strength, +2 Dex, No Con, No Wis, No Cha. So no Bonus to Fort, Will or health. The template takes away the creature's Charsima

[Kyaaadaa]

Drimoran wrote:

The template takes away the creature's Charsima

...

Balls.

[Robb Smith]

Kyaaadaa wrote:

Drimoran wrote:

The template takes away the creature's Charsima

...

Balls.

You are correct on the bludgeoning DR and cold resistance, but I was mainly focusing on the advantages of the Undead type since they are not directly included on the skeleton template entry.

[The Terrible Zodin]

I played a skeleton summoner (the summoner class) for 11 levels in PFS. Skeletons were my go to summons for SM I, II, and III. After that I dropped the skellies in favor of the lantern archons.

[Cevah]

Kyaaadaa wrote:

Drimoran wrote:

The template takes away the creature's Charsima

...

Balls.

Takes them too. :-)

/cevah

[Shiroi]

So cast it on creatures with a 0 in one of those stats anyways, a 10 con doesn't lose health. A 10 wisdom doesn't lose wisdom. A 6 cha gains 2 to intimidate checks.

There are some creatures (not necessarily ones you can or would want to summon, I don't have the list in front of me to check those numbers) where you could mitigate the drawbacks and make this a straight improvement.