Play an Alchemist. It feels like your buddy is not-so-subtly hinting towards that being what he wants.
How hard is he making combat? Can you get by by using "sub-par" weapons? If so the mutagen alchemist could be good, as well as other builds I'm sure
There are a handful of Archetypes that take the focus off of bombs (Why, I don't know. Bombs are awesome.), and put it onto other, less bomb-related stuff, like the Mindchemist and the Vivisectionist.
If he complains about those, look him dead in the eye and tell him that you're trying to make the best of an absurdly limited list of options.
Another option, and I hate to say it this way, may be to actually get another game. I can imagine ways to reskin Pathfinder into post-apocalyptic stuff but it's taking a bit.
Why would archers not be a good thing, though? Why wouldn't bowmaking be something that happens? You'd think archery would be a good idea in a setting with limited guns. Craft (bow) could make you pretty interesting to others. In fact, low armour on people might even make monks a bit more viable, amulet of mighty fists or no.
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Summoner seems like it does pretty well. So does cavalier, for that matter, as does swashbuckler.
Try the psychonaut alchemist archetype. Their bombs are reduced, and in exchange they get lots of divination extracts. The construct rider gets a different way to apply his bombs via a breath weapon. The clone master reduces its bombs in exchange for something like immortality, though it takes a while to kick in.
Or be a bard.
EDIT: Oh, and I was gonna say a grappler, but you seem to have thought of that yourself. Trip may be really good, too, if you're mostly facing other humans.
3. Magic is reflavored as alchemy-like stuff. Very magical effects thrown out because they could never be made with potions. This screws up arcane casters badly
Have you tried asking your GM for a chance to justify individual spells? I'll bet he could find ways to justify just about everything as alchemical.
Call lightning is an alchemical process that manipulates ozone in the atmosphere and forces a sudden discharge. Lightning bolt is an advanced version that allows temporary redirection of the currents. Fireball is a super-version of alchemist's fire. Enchantment messes with the humors to control someone's mood. There's a whole alchemist archetype dedicated to alchemical necromancy. And so on.
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Honestly, this sounds like a walk in the park for a monk. (Unchained)
Or a brawler.
I love alchemists, and the vivisectionist/beastmorph combo would work amazingly well here. Specifically, you don't need weapon, at level 2 you get 3 natural Attacks. Huzzah!
Monks- no need for weapons or armor. Hell, a 3 level dip into rogue gets you dex-damage on unarmed strikes and 2d6 sneak attack. You only pay 1 BaB for it.
If you DO find a magical monk weapon, all the better!
I like bards, but I'm not sure what to be doing with my hands. Might not have a weapon for a while, but it's an option.
The construct rider is AWESOME, but I doubt it would fly in the setting. Still, thank you for showing me this.
Because I'll probably be using light armor the whole game, is there a way to make a DEX-based combat maneuver barbarian?
Urban barbarian. There's also savage technologist, but I have a feeling that won't fly here.
I disagree with the OP's premise that monks are unplayable.
In a NORMAL Pathfinder game monks might be nearly unplayable, but in a game with no arcane or divine magic and very limited magic items, monks get a chance to shine like they cannot shine anywhere else.
Monks fail because everyone else is better, but when everyone else is chopped down to new depths of crappiness, the monk no longer fails.
And saying monks won't work because there won't be any AoMFs in the game is exactly like saying fighters will fail because there won't be any magic swords in the game. Equally true, but not a reason to disregard the monk. And if there are magic swords but there are no AoMFs, then this GM has bigger problems than class restrictions and that is something to talk to him about, even before the campaign starts, to make sure it won't end up like that later.
Eh, even in a low magic game there's a decent chance of some magic weapons turning up. Less so an AoMF. What you need to do is avoid being chained down to any one weapon, so no weapon focus or dervish dance or whatever,
A ranger is almost guaranteed to get some use out of favored enemy (humanoid: human) from the OP's description. If that almost-guarantee isn't enough then go with the guide archetype. Build for melee; there's probably going to be at least one of your friends wanting any magic two handed weapons that do show up, so TWF is your best bet IMO.
If you like some alchemical magic but hate bombs then an investigator works. Be warned that it takes until level 3-4 to be good in combat though. Out of combat they're good from level 1.
A classic cavalier doesn't need much to be workable. They get their horse for free, and with limited magic around there's less occasions you'll need to take your horse flying, underwater etc.
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Hmm tossing in ideas is great, but At some point we should summarize our thoughts right? Just so we are all on the same page: so we ruled out the divine casters (oracles, clerics, warpriests, and I assume inquisitors and paladins), you've stated you don't like alchemists (maybe a beastmorph vivisectionist since it is more BDF than GOD?), and the high level of DM fiat makes you not likely to play a caster (wizards, sorcerer, witch, arcanists). Is this correct?
Assuming it is, where do we go from here? lets divvy it up by roles shall we?
1) Craft your own. As long as you are making reasonable weapons (at least at first) smashing two rocks together and making a makeshift dagger isn't that crazy. Tying said dagger to a stick and making a spear or short spear is also pretty feasible (and hey look, 1 handed piercing weapon if you want to go swashbuckler). Sure, you won't have any steel weapons to fall back on but I am sure you can figure out something. Most classes (fighters included) get craft as a class skill, so with a 12 int at level one taking 10 you get a 15 on the check. That is high enough to craft most things (and should definitely be high enough to craft stone weapons). Sure, having no tools gives a -2, but if the party aids other that should cover it. normal short spears are 1gp and daggers 2gp. 15roll X 12DC means that within the first week you can craft 9 daggers or 18 spears (unless stone weapons are cheaper in which case pump those things out like there is no tomorrow).
2) Improvised weapons: This is by far my favorite option. catch off guard not only gets rid of penalties, but makes any unarmed combatant flat footed to you. So either the DM throws unarmed combatants at you and they get slaughtered or he throws armed ones at you and suddenly your party has weapons to loot. Do you like rogues? Do you like rogues with sap master? Because pick up turkey leg and watch the DPR numbers soar (I assume beating someone with a hunk of meat is non-lethal right?). Don't think improvised weapons can do non-lethal? fine, take bludgeoner and enforcer, add in a little thug rogue (or intimidate skill unlock) and go about debuffing them while you are at it. For even more fun, may I suggest mixing in the bounty hunter slayer? Sure, sap master isn't as OMG WTF BBQ damage, but free dirty tricks is very nice. Plus since you are fighting mostly humanoids, it is unlikely that their CMD will scale exponentially like normal. And heck, with everyone wearing light armor and next to no magical items, flat footed is going to screw over so many enemies' AC. If you don't like rogues there are also improvised archtypes for monks, cavilier orders, and a couple traits that can make for decently effective builds even under normal circumstances.
3) Fight unarmed. Yes, to compete with a fighter normally the monk needs to have an AoMF, but in a world with very few weapons, having a decent weapon built in is quite nice. Monk or brawler are great picks here. You shouldn't be dealing with too much DR (maybe skeletons and zombies?) so not only are you not at a loss for not collecting a weapon of every metal material, but high number of attacks are suddenly a valid fighting style. DPR-wise, TWF and THF are pretty even, it is just when DR comes into play that TWF falls to the way side
4) natural weapons: Speaking of built in attacks, natural weapons are a decent route to go. There is more support for unarmed than natural (specially as a human), but ranger styles, beastmorph alchemists, character with eldritch heritage (draconic) and many more. You know what is fun? Taking racial heritage (goblin) and going feral gnasher barbarian. Bite attacks, nice improvised weapons, and all the smashy goodness that comes with going into a rabid fury.
5) Pet class: Ok so this isn't so much a weapon for you, but any class that focuses on fighting alongside a pet like the hunter, summoner, ranger, or caviler (Lances are pretty easy to find material with which to craft) is going to excel. Duel character classes normally suffer from having to pay to equip 2 sets of hands/paws, but when you are in a survival wasteland and everyone is under-equipped suddenly the balence is turned. Ah, reading the comments posted since I started my post, I see you are looking at the construct rider alchemist. Another fine choice. Combining with one of the methods above (crafting seems good for a partial Int class) should be a good combatant.
Heres a thought, what about a Kineticist? They practically run off no items anyways
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I'd look into and ask about changing systems. With that much house cheese, you're barely playing Pathfinder anymore. Obviously the favoritism is towards martial classes. especially ones that aren't too equipment dependent. Lore Warden fighter is a good option if you're only doing light armor anyway and want to do well at combat maneuvers. I think an investigator would rip his world wide open. which you should not feel guilty about in any capacity. when you have so few options, optimizing what you have is a necessity.
I honestly don't know why you would stay in the game if it makes you and presumably the rest of the group unhappy to be playing. You as players have more power than you realize when it comes to deciding what kind of game to run. It may be his "turn", but that means its his responsibility as well as his privilege to provide an enjoyable experience for his players. Not your burden to endure a game you don't enjoy.
The way I figure it, if you are obligated to play in a campaign you are not very excited about, the least we can do if give you a couple fun options to give you some more interest in it.
On one hand, construct rider vivisectionist alchemist is a great fit. You get a pet that can fight in combat, an almost ideal improvised weapon build (full sneak attack for catch off guard and a free throw anything feat in case they try and run away. If you don't find at least one opportunity to throw a broken beer bottle at someone I will be quite disappointed in you), healing, and some utility. On the other hand, construct animal companion is the weakest animal companion (I am playing in a steam punk campaign as a hunter with my animal companion based off the construct rider's). Not only are you limited in what kind of animal you can get (hint: pick the camel. at first level, +4 (1d4+6) is much better than +3 (1d4+3) and 2X -2 (1d6+1). Adding in power attack at 2nd lvl and +4(1d4+9) vs +3(1d4+5) and 2x -2(1d6+2)) but you have to REPAIR it. For an alchemist, repairing is the worst. You don't get mend, you can't share spells with it, and you can't heal it with your infusions. So basically be prepared to make craft checks and spend gold every time your companion loses HP.
edit: ^ This makes mounted combat a necessity for avoiding damage. The other weird thing about construct mounts is how front loaded their HP is. At first lvl they get +30hp for being large in exchange for never getting a con mod (normally +4 at alch level 1). On the other hand, unlike ACs the moment they reach 0 they are dead. So basically they are a lot harder to take down at first level, but the moment they go down they stay down
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1) Synthesist / Standard Summoner
If you are standard summoner - flavour glitterdust as throwing dust particles on the hapless buggers, summon monster as taking a bottled monster and throwing it (an alchemist archtype actually does it - preservationist). Your eidolon can be a giant robot with a bigass weapon. If you need to use unchained start with the azata, have a nice elven robot like looking eid using a reach weapon. If you want to do synthesist summoner, do Ironman for flavour.
2) Witch (pls check how many constructs there are going to be in the game before you try this) - flavour your hexes as jedi mind tricks. Use summon monster by throwing bottled monsters. Flavour your cure spells as a medi kit. Flight hex is a jetpack ^^
You can possibly try hexcrafter - but the hexes don't come in till 4, and the melee side will be hit pretty hard by the lack of weapons and armor, unless you want to go dervish dance. On the bright side, hexcrafters can swift enchant with their arcane pool to make their weapons what wbl would get you.
I would step back and tell your GM that this system just isn't meant to work the way he wants it to. Eliminating and controlling things as he has suggested based on your post limits you to almost nothing being effective.
I would highly suggest you google around and find the fan conversion rules for Fallout to Savage Worlds, or if you can find the Fallout RPG rules. Either would work great for an apocalyptic campaign setting.
With the rules your GM is employing it's a recipe for suck that you as players will not have fun with. It's just not the right system.
Sometimes, the best thing to do is explore and learn new system rather than trying to shoehorn the square peg into the round hole.
An Amulet of Mighty Fists may never show up, but do you really think you can count on an optimized weapon showing up for anything else you play? Fighters for example will miss out on gloves of the duelist or having the right thing for Weapons Training.
Options to consider:
Barbarian: Doesn't require much to be fancy and smash with two hands, or can get natural weapons and say screw it to gear all together. Urban Barbarian can boost your Dex but unless you are going to get finessable weapons it is probably subpar. You don't play a Barbarian to have good AC, you play it for crazy amounts of health and hitting really hard.
Skald: In a party that will probably be very melee heavy, the Skald can really shine. The sweet rage powers of the Barbarian can be applied to an entire party. Skald's Vigor will help keep you alive without Divine Magic healz, and eventually Greater Skald's Vigor gets the entire party fast healz.
Lore Warden: Light Armor, king of CMB numbers.
Tetori Monk or Maneuver Master: The Tetori is the best grappler in the game and the Maneuver Master can perform things like dirty trick more than once a round. The former is better for pure focus, and the latter may work better as a dip for Lore Warden.
Monk, Unchanined Monk, or Brawler: Who needs fancy gear? These guys get inherent dodge bonuses and can smash stuff just fine with their hands. Your accuracy may suffer a bit, but things like the Mutagenic Mauler can give you boosts.
Investigator: Light armor is their default, they can be built for DEX or STR, and they get a ton of buffs that should still be on the table from extracts, mutagen, and studied combat. You also become the ultimate skill monkey, which may or may not be important for your game. Big downside: doesn't get Studied Combat until level 4.
Alchemist: See Investigator, but trade out studied combat for Sneak Attack and Beastmorph shenanigans.
Druid: Wild shape can do sick nasty things. Take a monk dip for some extra AC in animal form maybe. All you really need to clear for spells is buffs. Animal companion is solid too.
Ranger: I wouldn't go this route unless you know the types of enemies you'll fight. Also, unreliable gear doesn't mix well with Combat Style feats.
EDIT: The Kineticist also seems like a really solid option. You can blast stuff all day without running out of ammo or resources, the damage gap with a normal martial will probably be closer without the Christmas tree effect, and you can get utility too. I'm not familiar with them, but it seems worth asking the DM about.
When you say 'start with light armour and nothing else', should we take this as 'nothing better than leathers' or 'all you have is your leathers'?
That said, I still wouldn't put other ideas aside. Crafting a crossbow is another option, and if you can crossbow you can Bolt Ace Gunslinger or Crossbowman Fighter. Come on, what post-apocalyptic hellhole is complete without someone with a crossbow? And to make that bow, you're taking Craft (weapon). Granted, it'll be rough to do that without a lot of tools but sooner or later the others might ask you to upgrade their tomahawks and machetes into greataxes and greatswords.
This might actually be a game where a plain old Fighter is worth playing.
I would probably do that.
Improvised weapons can be fun, but a dagger specialist (twf/throwing) might just be awesome.
Look at "splintering weapon" feat, and ask if your GM allows stone weapons to do what they are published as doing (flint knives are listed as an example of stone weapons)-if so, they are cheap to make and can do bleed damage right from level one.
:D
picking up a craft skill seems almost mandatory for this campaign.
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picking up a craft skill seems almost mandatory for this campaign.
It certainly would make things interesting. Especially when the raiders and so on find out who's got those craft skills. And you don't want to put all your craft eggs in one NPC basket, do you? 'As you return to camp, you notice something odd. Smith McGuffin, your armourer, is missing. Guess what your next mission is?'
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Yeah I wouldn't view campaign as sucky without giving it a shot first. If nothing else, its a way to see what's on the other side. I'd still go for synthesist summoner, though. Synthesist...the only feats you really need are power attack (and possibly combat reflexes). You can dump the rest of the feats into item creation feats and be the tony stark of the party.
I still wouldn't be that interested in pure martial classes due to the fact their ac doesn't scale well without magical items.Your suit on the other hand, provides dark vision, non breakable weapons (claw/bite/both), scaling ac, bonus hp and can be customised to be an all terrain vehicle (flight evolution).
Now all you need to do is figure a way to stay awake 24/7.