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NOT!
I'm surprised there was no thread for this movie.
I have been a member of these forums since the days of the much beloved Dragon and Dungeon magazines, and I would like to think I try to fair with my assessments of popular culture as much as one can be.
I would never consider myself a "hater," in fact I am more forgiving than most especially when in comes to honoring nostalgia.
That being said, this movie is a pure condemnable stinker.
I saw the red carpet premier last night with the director and major stars for free, and I still want my money back.
I normally leave before the end of the movie screenings and hate to do so because I work in the evenings. Man was I so happy I had to go to work.
While I like almost the entire cast individually and I will bet most of them will continue on to become bigger starts, I think this movie is such a waste of talent, possibilities, and lackluster for some of the most Iconic super heroes ever created.
(As an aside I hate Dr. Doom in this movie, and this PAINS me, there are very few villains from my childhood as Iconic as Grand Moff Tarkin and Darth Vader, Doom was always close in that billing and here I almost feel sorry for him. As a child when we played 'cops and robbers" I played Von Doom and would blast cops with nary a thought.)
Hopefully the young stars of this failed franchise, who are quite talented, will rise from the ashes of this burnout soon enough.
The trailer may very well be better than 90 percent of the movie, I grade the trailer a C and the actual movie a D and that's me being gentle.
I am very sad with this reboot, maybe in a decade they will finally get it right.
Please do not waste your time and money on this pile of Bantha Poodoo.
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To follow up...a lot of people seem to agree with you. Rotten Tomatoes has it at a 9%...which might be a worst score than the prior movies (I am too lazy to check). The producers seem to already be writing it off, as the most recent comments have them backpeddling and denying that the film is set in the same universe as the X-men movies.
Granted it could still make a ton of money, which will be enough to make Fox happy. But if it bombs maybe we will be one step closer to the F4 returning home to Marvel, where they really do belong.
Well at least Deadpool looks awesome?
Knew it wasn't gonna be good. you could hear it in the way the Director talked about it. He all but said "I don't really want to do a Fantastic 4 movie"
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One thing you can't fault Trank on, he's on the ball when it comes to getting a head start on shifting the blame. Less than 24 hours after release he was already talking s%!$:
It's like the Canadian Girlfriend of movies. "Nuh uh you guys, my Fantastic 4 film was totally hot and sexy. She just lives in Canada, so you'll never see her. Totally the hottest film ever though!"
I'm starting to feel like the Roger Corman version was better than this movie. The 2005 version gets flak, but it's looking positively classic by comparison as well.
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I keep hearing this movie pretty much sucks big, hairy donkey balls. I'll admit - this makes me happy. I prefer to see the characters back in Marvel's far more capable hands. This Trank kid kept coming across as a snotty little punk to me.
But I may just be a cranky old fart.
No, they could continue to make bad movies as long as they want throw money down a hole. That was the issue with Sweetpea and D&D movie rights. They would have to shelve making movies for a certain time (as was done with Daredevil) or cede the rights back.
Some of the Marvel movies rights have clauses that allow the rights to revert back to Marvel if a movie is not made in X amount of time. So if F4 does badly, that might make Fox less likely to make another movie with the property. Thus more likely for the rights to expire (which could take a...long time) or negotiate with Marvel some sort of deal.
Marvel has also in the past negotiated for the rights of properties. That's probably the most plausible means that Fox will give up rights for Fantastic Four. Right now Fox wants Xmen related live action TV shows, but doesn't have the rights for TV. So I could see Marvel negotiating an exchange, with F4 (or parts of F4) being handed over in exchange for that.
On the other hand, Fox and Marvel don't play that well together. So Fox might try to hold onto rights just to deny Marvel the usage. IIRC, Marvel was willing to extend rights for Daredevil to Fox in exchange for getting a hold of the cosmic elements of F4, but were denied.
I was hoping this would bomb. It seems it will.
The old movie was enjoyable in a goofy sort of way. It was made in a way that So Bad It's Good was a definite option if it failed. I even kinda liked Rise of the Silver Surfer.
The new movie looks dull, and has been a trainwreck of arbitrary character changes since day 1. Of course it's terrible.
Hm. Either this movie is so bad it makes the other one look good, or there are a lot of hypocrites out there. Not you specifically, Rynjin, just saying.
"Arbitrary character changes" Sounds like code for making Johnny Storm (and Franklin Storm) black.
Well, Trank said, "A year ago I had a fantastic version of this", Trank tweeted. "And it would've received great reviews. You’ll probably never see it. That’s reality though."
Who knows, we might get a director's cut so that they can try and recoup the money.
And while it's crap, you know that Fox will not simply give it up without getting money or other rights.
Yeap, pretty sure Fox will put F4 on ice for a few years and try again. Sony doing it with spidey right now.
Not really. Sony made a deal with Marvel Studios to include Spider-Man in the MCU. Which is why despite Spidey being licensed by Sony he IS appearing in Captain America : Civil War.
A new Sony financed by Marvel Studios controlled (in terms of creative content) Spider-Man movie is coming out in 2017(?) I think. But as of right now? Spider-Man is part of the MCU.
Do you folks have inside knowledge of the rights contract? Is there a clause saying if a film sucks you give up the rights?
I dont think that's part of the contract BUT I think that if a licensee doesn't do anything with the character for a set amount of time the rights revert BACK to Marvel. Which is how Daredevil wound up back with Marvel after being with Fox.
And why I think that if Marvel wanted to do another Blade movie theyre not worried about New Line because it's been over a decade since the last Blade movie.There's also the idea of the smart play.
Fox has made 3 Fantastic Four movies with varying degrees of financial success.
This last one looks like it's going to flop magnificently. When you have to downgrade your estimate from a 50-55 million dollar weekend before release, then to a 40 million dollar weekend on Thursday and now it's looking like MAYBE a 28 million dollar weekend? That's REALLY not good.
Granted, the international Box Office may help out a bit but at this point Fox has to be considering going to Marvel Studios for a deal of SOME sort. Because they just CANT get this particular property right.
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Flag 1 = 'hard science film' - ....This is the Fantastic Four, Time Platforms, Cosmic Rays, Talking Robot helpers, Flying Cars that split into four seperate flying cars, Giant whirly machines that do nothing. It's as far from Hard Science as you can get.
Flag 2 = 'body horror' ....again what part of Fantastic do you not get. The only one who hated his powers was Ben and even he came to the conclusion he was better with them than without them.
Flag 3 = Telling your actors not to read the comics because what you are doing has nothing to do with those.....Then why the hell are you making the movie
Flag 4 = Doom is a social hacktivist....DaFuQ??!! I can't even begin to say how many things are wrong with this.
You know the reason the unreleased Corman film is still looked on favorably. Even though the FX are bad, even though the acting is campy, you could tell the people involved loved the source.
Loving the source material should be a requierment for making a comic book movie.
I don't think there was any love in Fantastic 4
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I don't think there was any love in Fantastic 4
People need to repeat this again LOUDER because the Josh Trank obviously never got the message.
This is why I want it to go back to Marvel Studios.
I dont think that's part of the contract BUT I think that if a licensee doesn't do anything with the character for a set amount of time the rights revert BACK to Marvel. Which is how Daredevil wound up back with Marvel after being with Fox.
And why I think that if Marvel wanted to do another Blade movie theyre not worried about New Line because it's been over a decade since the last Blade movie.
Reading stuff yesterday, Fox would need to release another Fantastic Four by 2024 to keep the rights. So about the longest they can leave the property sitting on a shelf is about...lets say 7 years since they would need time to develop/film it.
It's all about cost and benefits for Fox. Do you negotiate the rights back to Marvel now, either for some other deal with licensing/Xmen rights, or just money, or do you keep the property on ice and hope that the comic craze is still as lucrative in 7 years as it is now, and do another reboot.
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To me...I think Josh Trank really wanted to do a "superhero" movie that really played up the body horror element involved in superhero transformations, that is often not dealt with. That could have been a really really cool and solid idea for an original film. That is NOT an appropriate theme to go with for the Fantastic Four. Cronenberg is not a name that comes up when you think of those characters.
Josh Trank's first movie Chronicle dealt with superhero stuff....but it was a horror movie more than anything else, not something comparable to say....any of the Xmen or Marvel movies. It sounds like that is the approach he was taking on Fantastic Four, than Fox execs/producers freaked out at his direction and reshot the last third of the movie, which is why from what I hear that section doesn't really make any sense.
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Wonder if he would have been better off doing a Doom Patrol movie. 'Body Horror' kind of works there
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"Arbitrary character changes" Sounds like code for making Johnny Storm (and Franklin Storm) black.
Changes in order of least bothersome to most:
1.) Making Johnny black (but not Sue. Why does he need to be adopted?)
2.) Mr. fantastic doesn't stretch. Yes, I get that he technically "stretches" by warping dimensions or whatever, but trying to apply "science" to the fantastic Four is just stupid.
3.) Dr. Doom is a hacker because reasons. Dr. Doom is supposed to be an evil f$#~er not some so edgy I'll cut myself anti-social programmer with Doom as his username.
4.) Everything involving Ben Grimm. Ben Grimm has a few things in his backstory that are somewhat core to his character.
-He's a former college football star, and a wrestler.
-He's an Air Force pilot.
-He's about 30+ years old at the start, or at least looks it.
Then they cast a scrawny, ambiguously pre-pubescent actor to play him. He's not believable as a football player, wrestler, or someone who has entered ANY branch of the military.
Whatever gripes you might have had about the original movie...the casting wasn't a problem (Just...everything else.). Everyone fit pretty well in their role, ESPECIALLY Michael Chiklis as Ben.
I feel like calling Jamie Bell ambiguously pre-pubescent is a bit much. Dude is 29, and not far off 30. He was around 13 when he played Billy Elliot back in 2000. They wanted a younger cast this time, and I don't think that's one of the major problems of the film, much like I don't think the casting for the last two was particularly bad.
Biggest issue is the director not understanding why people like the Fantastic 4 and trying to make it into a comic book version of Chronicle. Which was a fine film, but as mentioned before has no business being a design template for an F4 film.
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ESPECIALLY Michael Chiklis as Ben.
thousand Yes on that. He was dead on perfect for the part
ESPECIALLY Michael Chiklis as Ben.thousand Yes on that. He was dead on perfect for the part
True that. I do have a fondness for Julian McMahon as Doom as well, even if they did screw the character background etc. I thought he got the egotistical smugness perfectly.
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Yeah, I agree about Chiklis...he was pretty much perfect casting.
I also agree with Tinkergoth about McMahon...he COULD have been a great Doom, if the part they had him play was actually Doom.
Although as bad as that Doom was...at least he wasn't a g$~+!+n hacktivist.
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I have a soft spot for Julian McMahon since I used to to watch Charmed with my mom.
I mean looking back the show is objectively terrible, but you know how nostalgia is.
"Arbitrary character changes" Sounds like code for making Johnny Storm (and Franklin Storm) black.Changes in order of least bothersome to most:
1.) Making Johnny black (but not Sue. Why does he need to be adopted?)
2.) Mr. fantastic doesn't stretch. Yes, I get that he technically "stretches" by warping dimensions or whatever, but trying to apply "science" to the fantastic Four is just stupid.
3.) Dr. Doom is a hacker because reasons. Dr. Doom is supposed to be an evil f!$*er not some so edgy I'll cut myself anti-social programmer with Doom as his username.
4.) Everything involving Ben Grimm. Ben Grimm has a few things in his backstory that are somewhat core to his character.
-He's a former college football star, and a wrestler.
-He's an Air Force pilot.
-He's about 30+ years old at the start, or at least looks it.
Then they cast a scrawny, ambiguously pre-pubescent actor to play him. He's not believable as a football player, wrestler, or someone who has entered ANY branch of the military.
Whatever gripes you might have had about the original movie...the casting wasn't a problem (Just...everything else.). Everyone fit pretty well in their role, ESPECIALLY Michael Chiklis as Ben.
Ya know a lot of this isn't actually in the movie right? Sue Storm is the one who is adopted and as far as I can tell Dr Doom a scientific genius and protege of Papa Storm and is part of the team, and doesn't have any of the hactivist elements. Also I don't think the choice of the actor for Grimm really was that bad
Now making him learn his catch phrase from his abusive older brother....that is bad, or not even letting Sue Storm go on the mission that give them powers (she gets feedback from the portal).
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If it isn't in the movie, oh well. All of that is s&$~ they announced was definitely the case weeks in advance.
If you don't want someone to judge your movie based on a ton of details you release beforehand...don't release them. Or, say something about definitively changing those unpopular elements.
I have no plans to see this movie based on all that, and everything I've heard about how it really turned out doesn't change my mind.
Casting for the old F4 was spot on, aside from Alba. I love her, but she can't pull of Sue. And of course, I like to see that Chris Evans has range. But Ioan Gruffud was awesome as Mr. Fantastic.
Ioan Gruffud is just awesome in general. Still disappointed Forever was cancelled.
I am also disappointed that Forever was cancelled, I loved that show.
I liked everyone they got for the last two fantastic 4 movies but the guy they got for Doom.
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ESPECIALLY Michael Chiklis as Ben.thousand Yes on that. He was dead on perfect for the partHe did well, but the writers and director screwed it up completely.
In any other locale than the Marvel Universe Ben Grimm would be one of the smartest people in the room. 'Ivy League' (Empire State University being a mix of NYU and Columbia), multiple engineering and graduate degrees, test pilot, astronaut. He's not Stark or Richards or Doom, but he's not dumb or uneducated.
Yeah, but he plays dumb most of the time. Partly the company he keeps. Probably partly so that enemies underestimate him.
I also don't remember him having "multiple engineering and graduate degrees". He had a football scholarship, graduated and joined the Air Force. Of course, over 50 years of comics, I probably missed something.
it's the one reason my father in law only keeps air force company - you can't fly a plane and be dumb.
Wonder if he would have been better off doing a Doom Patrol movie. 'Body Horror' kind of works there
interesting.
To me...I think Josh Trank really wanted to do a "superhero" movie that really played up the body horror element involved in superhero transformations, that is often not dealt with. That could have been a really really cool and solid idea for an original film. That is NOT an appropriate theme to go with for the Fantastic Four. Cronenberg is not a name that comes up when you think of those characters.
Josh Trank's first movie Chronicle dealt with superhero stuff....but it was a horror movie more than anything else, not something comparable to say....any of the Xmen or Marvel movies. It sounds like that is the approach he was taking on Fantastic Four, than Fox execs/producers freaked out at his direction and reshot the last third of the movie, which is why from what I hear that section doesn't really make any sense.
Quite possibly. It sounds like he wanted to direct Doom Patrol, but could only get the Fantastic Four.
EDIT: And lazy ninja'd.
not sure a Doom Patrol movie would work. It is a bit stuck in time.
"Arbitrary character changes" Sounds like code for making Johnny Storm (and Franklin Storm) black.For me, evil blogger Doom was my jumping off point. I would have preferred if they made Sue black too, since she and Johnny are siblings (not adopted in the comics), but that's really a minor point.
Sadly, the guys making films can't seem to realize one simple thing...
DOOM is a self made villain. He doesn't owe his powers to cosmic radiation, but to himself.
As has been pointed out, Doom is neither a hacker nor a blogger. But if you're going to blame someone for Doom being cosmically radiated, you need to take that up with Marvel. This version of the movie is drawing its inspiration from Ultimate Fantastic Four, and Doom gets his powers the same way the heroes do.
As has been pointed out, Doom is neither a hacker nor a blogger. But if you're going to blame someone for Doom being cosmically radiated, you need to take that up with Marvel. This version of the movie is drawing its inspiration from Ultimate Fantastic Four, and Doom gets his powers the same way the heroes do."Arbitrary character changes" Sounds like code for making Johnny Storm (and Franklin Storm) black.For me, evil blogger Doom was my jumping off point. I would have preferred if they made Sue black too, since she and Johnny are siblings (not adopted in the comics), but that's really a minor point.
Sadly, the guys making films can't seem to realize one simple thing...
DOOM is a self made villain. He doesn't owe his powers to cosmic radiation, but to himself.
You have to wonder when they changed that, because it was pretty late in production when they announced that tidbit. Like, 2 months ago I think.
I doubt that much changed with respect to Doom's origin. I wouldn't take the rumors and comments (even from the actor) that dropped and the attendant nerdrage and conclusion jumping without a massive grain of salt. Having taken a more recent look at Tony Kebbell's comments and having seen the movie, I'm not seeing a whole lot of contradictory information - just incomplete information that people did a crappy job of guessing in the details with.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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You have to wonder when they changed that, because it was pretty late in production when they announced that tidbit. Like, 2 months ago I think.As has been pointed out, Doom is neither a hacker nor a blogger. But if you're going to blame someone for Doom being cosmically radiated, you need to take that up with Marvel. This version of the movie is drawing its inspiration from Ultimate Fantastic Four, and Doom gets his powers the same way the heroes do."Arbitrary character changes" Sounds like code for making Johnny Storm (and Franklin Storm) black.For me, evil blogger Doom was my jumping off point. I would have preferred if they made Sue black too, since she and Johnny are siblings (not adopted in the comics), but that's really a minor point.
Sadly, the guys making films can't seem to realize one simple thing...
DOOM is a self made villain. He doesn't owe his powers to cosmic radiation, but to himself.
More like nine months.
It was pretty clearly chopped out of the movie in editing, too. They also ditched the name change (Victor Domashev), since we see a closeup on Victor's name in the teleporter project proposal, and it says "Victor Von Doom" in big bold print. I'm guessing the closeup on the page (and accompanying incredulous government-man dialogue "Victor Von Doom?") were filmed/recorded separately.
As to why, I'm guessing it was the Internet backlash. That might also explain Trank's insistence that he had a version a year ago that would have done well. (I don't buy it myself, but who knows).
I doubt that much changed with respect to Doom's origin. I wouldn't take the rumors and comments (even from the actor) that dropped and the attendant nerdrage and conclusion jumping without a massive grain of salt. Having taken a more recent look at Tony Kebbell's comments and having seen the movie, I'm not seeing a whole lot of contradictory information - just incomplete information that people did a crappy job of guessing in the details with.
"He's Victor Domashev, not Victor Von Doom in our story. And I'm sure I'll be sent to jail for telling you that. The Doom in ours—I'm a programmer. Very anti-social programmer. And on blogging sites I'm "Doom"."
Seems pretty cut and dried to me.
Which leaves two options:
1.) They changed it (as Benchak says is pretty clear).
2.) The actor had ZERO CLUE who or what the character he's playing is.
The second option doesn't speak well for the quality of the movie in a whole new way.